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Thread: Why "crop factor" is so pervasive

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Gerald-Yamasaki View Post
    Roger,

    I tend to think of noise as being an error in light measurement, specific to a pixel (rather than generic like light drop off from a lens). .......
    I don't think there is a universally satisfying solution for this conundrum nor do I think the new camera releases will expose the myth (which ever one it is )... I'm inclined to think that there are a sufficient number of variables between the sensor and discriminating output to render a definitive answer incalculable.

    Hi Michael,
    While one can consider the noise we see in our digital camera images an error in measurement, most of the noise we see is due to the light itself, not the lens sensor and electronics recording the light.

    Photons arrive at random times and we are counting photons for a relatively short interval (the exposure time in a camera). The noise is the square root of the number of photons collected. This is the dominant noise source (light itself) that we see in our images. The electronics in digital cameras add a small amount of noise but it usually only becomes a factor in the deepest shadows. It includes read noise from the sensor, and noise from the electronics including fixed pattern noise (FPN). But on any subject you photograph (excluding very long (minutes) exposure astrophotos), the main noise you see in images is due to photons. The photon noise is quite predictable and so is sensor read noise and other electronic noise. So the response of a camera is quite predictable. It is mostlly basic physics and engineering.

    What is no predictable is how people react to noise sources. Different people seem to tolerate noise in images differently. One observation I find interesting is as digital cameras were emerging, people didn't like the images because they were "too smooth." People wanted that film grain as they thought images should look that way. Now people complain about the tiniest amount of noise.

    Roger

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    Lifetime Member Michael Gerald-Yamasaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Gerald-Yamasaki View Post
    I tend to think of noise as being an error in light measurement, specific to a pixel (rather than generic like light drop off from a lens).
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Clark View Post
    While one can consider the noise we see in our digital camera images an error in measurement, most of the noise we see is due to the light itself, not the lens sensor and electronics recording the light.
    Roger, what you're saying makes sense to me (regarding the light and light recording). I think I get it now. I've had this had this strange mental disconnect from the various web discussions about noise and noise comparisons between various new sensors/cameras (talk about noise )...

    So for me at least... here is the ah, hah. The meaning of noise gets converted along with raw conversion. Subsequent to raw - it's all signal, selective smoothing and contrasting as we go.

    Cheers,

    -Michael-

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