Pied Cormorant

Ofer Levy · 04-20-2011, 06:37 AM

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**Randy Stout** · 04-20-2011, 07:06 AM

Ofer:

Great looking bird, challenging to expose well, but very nice balance whites and darks here.
Shooting angle is excellent, as is head and body angle.

Very well captured.

Cheers

Randy

**Melissa Groo** · 04-20-2011, 09:31 AM

Ofer, great portrait, and I admire how you exposed for the darks without blowing the whites. I'm still trying to figure that out. Great comp and clarity.

**Dave Leroy** · 04-20-2011, 09:37 AM

Lovely looking bird and I really like the pose.

Ofer, please put me on the straight and narrow here, but to my eye it looks like a bit of cyan colour cast. I sometimes see colour casts where others don't so.....

Good for you to get into the water. The low shooting angle is right on.

Dave

**arash_hazeghi** · 04-20-2011, 10:20 AM

super my friend! lovely pose and low angle

**Troy Lim** · 04-20-2011, 01:29 PM

Very nice image, better looking Cormorant than the one we have here.

Ofer Levy · 04-20-2011, 06:23 PM

Thanks for your comments guys!
Melissa, here is the "secret" how I expose.... I simply NEVER expose AV or TV - only Manual. I always expose in a way that the brightest element in the image (particularly on the bird) is almost hot - in this case the white. You should have the highlight alert ON. Exposing manually with the histogram pushed as much as possible to the right without burning anything will result in the best possible image with the best signal to noise ratio, and the best colours. It may not look very nice in camera as it will be a bit bright but when opened in photoshop and adjusted a bit you will see the beauty of this technique. Don't relay on the camera to do this simple thing for you when you can do it so much better.
Just my 2 cents,
Cheers,Ofer
http://www.oferlevyphotography.com

**Melissa Groo** · 04-20-2011, 06:49 PM

Ofer, you confirm what I have been slowly absorbing from studying this web site--as well as others-- and books. I guess I have always been afraid to go Manual but I know that is how many of the best photogs shoot. When I went out with Shadle he had me shooting in Manual and I got excited about it, but then retreated to the safety of AV when I got home. I will try what you say, and see how it works for me. Thanks so much for your instruction and thoughtfulness.

**Arthur Morris** · 04-20-2011, 07:58 PM

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**Arthur Morris** · 04-20-2011, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Dave Leroy

Lovely looking bird and I really like the pose. Ofer, please put me on the straight and narrow here, but to my eye it looks like a bit of cyan colour cast. I sometimes see colour casts where others don't so..... Good for you to get into the water. The low shooting angle is right on. Dave

Hey Dave, Just of the record books, an average blur color balance of the image shows R:96, B: 126, and G: 131. I am pretty sure that BLUE and GREEN make up CYAN. So your perception was right on in this case. Do note however, that not all images should be processed to look completely neutral...

**Arthur Morris** · 04-20-2011, 08:11 PM

And finally on to the image. Superb subject, perfect head angle and regal pose. Spectacular colors and light and sharpness. And of course a nice low perspective. I might suggest getting about two feet lower next time

**Peter Hawrylyshyn** · 04-20-2011, 09:29 PM

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Steven Kersting · 04-20-2011, 09:58 PM

My 2c...

I like the photo, and by exposing to the right you have managed to get a lot from it, if captured in RAW I think more could have been achieved.

I see the whites as being hot overall...I usually use white levels at 245 and black levels at 10, but that's a "print thing" and I'm not sure it really applies to web...

I think the whites are a bit warm as well...I personally don't think that an average blur layer will give accurate results in an image such as this with such a large area of blue (water), but I'm also learning that my preferred method of using levels may not be any better (true white/ black seldom occur in nature). I also understand the desire to recreate "the moment" which will have a color cast due to the time of day...In general I would sacrifice overall color for accurate color reproduction of the subject and I wasn't there and have never seen one of these in person to really say....

Ofer Levy · 04-20-2011, 11:09 PM

Thank you all for the interesting discussion and comments.
This image was taken in early morning light when colours are "warm" so there is no point in trying to reproduce the "perfect white".
Artie, during all the years I have been doing bird photography (over 30 years now) I always used only manual exposure and never had any issues with getting the exposure right.
IMO there is absolutely no reason to go TV or AV in any circumstances.
As to the histogram you present - I am sure everyone with a calibrated monitor who looks at this image will agree that neck looks fine so I am not too worried about the histogram. Also keep in mind the feathers are socked with water which might cause what you see in the histogram. Having said that I always look at the histogram when I take the image to make sure nothing is clipped so I will have all the information to work with.
Cheers,
Ofer http://www.oferlevyphotography.com

**Arthur Morris** · 04-21-2011, 08:15 AM

As I said, there is lots of clipping in the JPEG as presented.

**Daniel Cadieux** · 04-21-2011, 08:43 AM

I use AV more than 80% of the time and never had any issues getting the right exposure either

. I do agree there are times for manual (and for some that is all the time and that is OK), but there is nothing "wrong" with AV either...

Fabulous low angle and I love the emerald eye and the slight tilt of the bill upwards. I prefer the blues of the water in Peter's repost.

**Arthur Morris** · 04-21-2011, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Daniel Cadieux

I use AV more than 80% of the time and never had any issues getting the right exposure either

. I do agree there are times for manual (and for some that is all the time and that is OK), but there is nothing "wrong" with AV either...

Fabulous low angle and I love the emerald eye and the slight tilt of the bill upwards. I prefer the blues of the water in Peter's repost.

The right exposure if of course the right exposure. The myth that real photographers should work in manual mode is just that, a myth. There are times as when the light on a subject might change five stops or more in a single instant. Folks working in manual mode at such times are dead in the water no matter how smart they are or think that they are :)

The above might make a good thread in General :)

Steven Kersting · 04-21-2011, 05:38 PM

My monitor is calibrated (color eye's pro). I see the whites as being a bit hot.
And I normally use aperture priority mode. Even if I go into manual mode because I want control of aperture and shutter speed my ISO is set to an "auto" range.

Ofer Levy · 04-21-2011, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by Arthur Morris

The right exposure if of course the right exposure. The myth that real photographers should work in manual mode is just that, a myth. There are times as when the light on a subject might change five stops or more in a single instant. Folks working in manual mode at such times are dead in the water no matter how smart they are or think that they are :)

The above might make a good thread in General :)

Hi Artie,
Would love to hear about an example to when light on a subject changes 5 stop at once and the image is still worth taking....:2
In any case this is the exception when 99.999% of the time the light on the subject doesn't change that fast. Even when light changes - what is so complecated about taking one shot and then adjusting the exposure by looking at the image and histogram...?

Manual is the way not for what you call "real photographers" but to those who want to be excellent photographers and to really control their image...

**Roger Clark** · 04-21-2011, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Ofer Levy

Hi Artie,
Would love to hear about an example to when light on a subject changes 5 stop at once and the image is still worth taking....:2

Hi Ofer,
Saturday evening I was photographing birds at a rookery around sunset. With an approaching storm, there were a lot of small clouds around the sun. The light was nice, being an orange sunset (for over a half hour before the sun went below the horizon) but light levels changed by the second by many stops (I'll have to check my images to see how many). I had been working in manual, then switched to Av when light levels started varying fast. I see uses for both Av and manual. I never use Tv as I feel I can control my shutter speed with my choice of aperture and ISO. If I had to guess, I would say I use manual 2/3 to 3/4 of the time.

Roger

**Arthur Morris** · 04-21-2011, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Ofer Levy

Hi Artie,
Would love to hear about an example to when light on a subject changes 5 stop at once and the image is still worth taking....:2
In any case this is the exception when 99.999% of the time the light on the subject doesn't change that fast. Even when light changes - what is so complecated about taking one shot and then adjusting the exposure by looking at the image and histogram...?

Manual is the way not for what you call "real photographers" but to those who want to be excellent photographers and to really control their image...

Ofer you may be an excellent photographer but by having a close mind you are choosing to be stagnant. How's this real life situation: a gator grabs a Cattle Egret in bright sun. I dial in -1 and get some great shots. The gator slides under the boardwalk into the shadows. I go to 0 and get several more great shots. All of this happens in three seconds. If you were in manual mode you would have zero chance for the extra images in the shade. When I am walking with my lens and I do not know what to expect where I am always in Av mode.... It has saved me countless times. In the gator example the exposure difference was about 8 stops.... Too many clicks for the real photographers who work in Manual mode all the time. :) Like it or not....

Ofer Levy · 04-21-2011, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Arthur Morris

Ofer you may be an excellent photographer but by having a close mind you are choosing to be stagnant. How's this real life situation: a gator grabs a Cattle Egret in bright sun. I dial in -1 and get some great shots. The gator slides under the boardwalk into the shadows. I go to 0 and get several more great shots. All of this happens in three seconds. If you were in manual mode you would have zero chance for the extra images in the shade. When I am walking with my lens and I do not know what to expect where I am always in Av mode.... It has saved me countless times. In the gator example the exposure difference was about 8 stops.... Too many clicks for the real photographers who work in Manual mode all the time. :) Like it or not....

Artie, there is no need to go into a psychological assessment of my personality only because I don't agree with your way of doing things...

As to the Gator and Cattle Egret scenario - please post some pictures in here so we can all learn.

In any case it takes me 1 or 2 seconds to change the settings and I am sure this won't kill the opportunity for me.

How many times in a photographer's life he/she is in a situation when such thing happen anyhow? On the other hand - how many times photographers got the exposure wrong when they relayed on the camera to do the job for them...?
If an experience photographer like Roger who uses manual exposure 2/3 of the time feels he needs to go AV – that is fine. However, if a less experienced photographer chooses AV or TV only because he thinks it is more reliable than Manual – this is wrong IMHO.
Having said that – everyone can do whatever he/she wants and enjoy life!
Happy shooting all!

Steven Kersting · 04-21-2011, 10:51 PM

Nothing is more "reliable" than manual mode. But the other modes can be just as reliable AND faster/easier as long as you are not dependent upon them. That's like saying spot metering is always better than matrix metering....You have to know when to use what and when the camera is going to lie to you. Do you always use an incident meter? Or using a fixed focus point is always better than dynamic.

If I set a fixed ISO and adjust desired aperture in Aperture priority the resulting SS is the same as I would have chosen (+/- comp) for the same exposure in full manual. Or if I set SS and a fixed ISO in S priority (Nikon) the aperture will be the same as if full manual.

I started when full manual was the only option, but things have changed a lot and I paid a lot for the capabilities of my camera. To not use those capabilities is silly.....to be dependent upon them is a mistake.

Personally, I have missed many shots because I could not react within the timeframe much less change settings, and I can change my camera's settings in the dark/ on the fly quite fluently. (two seconds can be a very long time)

No one mode is best...being in control is best.

Dan Avelon · 04-21-2011, 11:13 PM

excellent pose and details, It is sad to see a nice shot like this becomes a battle ground... whatever method has been used it has produced excellent results in this case...

**James Shadle** · 04-22-2011, 12:05 AM

Please stay on topic, this is a critique forum.

To further explore / debate exposure techniques, start a thread in our General Discussion Forum.

**Jim Neiger** · 04-22-2011, 05:08 AM

Originally Posted by Arthur Morris

Ofer you may be an excellent photographer but by having a close mind you are choosing to be stagnant. How's this real life situation: a gator grabs a Cattle Egret in bright sun. I dial in -1 and get some great shots. The gator slides under the boardwalk into the shadows. I go to 0 and get several more great shots. All of this happens in three seconds. If you were in manual mode you would have zero chance for the extra images in the shade. When I am walking with my lens and I do not know what to expect where I am always in Av mode.... It has saved me countless times. In the gator example the exposure difference was about 8 stops.... Too many clicks for the real photographers who work in Manual mode all the time. :) Like it or not....

Artie,

The difference between Egret in bright sun and gator in shade under boardwalk is only 4 or 5 stops. I know this from my experiences at GL. I am like Ofer, manual mode all the time. When I get to a location, I will often take meter readings and determine what the extreme exposures are (full sun & darkest shade) This tells me where to go in the extremes. Everything else falls inbetween. This allows me to estimate the exposure very acurately. In your example I would have shot the Egret in full sun and trhen when they went into the dark shaded area, I would have gone about 12 clicks left (counterclockwise) on the shutter and/or aperture wheel, and then I would be ready to shoot again. This may not be as fast as AV mode in this case, but it is an unusual case. I can see where there are times AV mode would be a better choice, but I choose to use manual because I believe it is the best choice the vast majoprity of the time for bird photography.

Nice image, Ofer! I like the light, pose, and low angle. When you said you take the brightest element of the image as far to the right as possible, did you mean brightest element of the image or the brightest element of the subject? I usualy push the brightest element of the subject to the right and don't worry about the bg/fg. I may vary from this approach when elements in the bg/fg are important to the image and I don't want to over expose them. I think the flashing highlight alert is a more valuable tool for evaluating exposure in camera than the histogram is.

Ofer Levy · 04-22-2011, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by Jim Neiger

Artie,

The difference between Egret in bright sun and gator in shade under boardwalk is only 4 or 5 stops. I know this from my experiences at GL. I am like Ofer, manual mode all the time. When I get to a location, I will often take meter readings and determine what the extreme exposures are (full sun & darkest shade) This tells me where to go in the extremes. Everything else falls inbetween. This allows me to estimate the exposure very acurately. In your example I would have shot the Egret in full sun and trhen when they went into the dark shaded area, I would have gone about 12 clicks left (counterclockwise) on the shutter and/or aperture wheel, and then I would be ready to shoot again. This may not be as fast as AV mode in this case, but it is an unusual case. I can see where there are times AV mode would be a better choice, but I choose to use manual because I believe it is the best choice the vast majoprity of the time for bird photography.

Nice image, Ofer! I like the light, pose, and low angle. When you said you take the brightest element of the image as far to the right as possible, did you mean brightest element of the image or the brightest element of the subject? I usualy push the brightest element of the subject to the right and don't worry about the bg/fg. I may vary from this approach when elements in the bg/fg are important to the image and I don't want to over expose them. I think the flashing highlight alert is a more valuable tool for evaluating exposure in camera than the histogram is.

Hi Jim, I agree with everything you said.

I am of course mostly worried about the subject but will usually not take the shot if too much of the BG is hot.

I will repeat your very important point that flashing highlights alert is the most important tool to determine exposure.

Cheers!

**James Salywoda** · 04-22-2011, 09:25 AM

Fantastic! perfectly captured Ofer.

**John Chardine** · 04-22-2011, 12:20 PM

Regarding the manual/automatic exposure mode sub-thread here I'll just give my experience. The majority of the time manual exposure mode works for me, I enjoy using it, figuring the exposure out, I learn more about exposure using manual, and the results are generally what I want. Having said this I have experienced times when auto exposure worked better. Example- shorebirds of various species including Sanderlings are feeding on a sandy beach. On the beach, there are piles of seaweed. The setting sun is behind me. Those who have shot Sanderlings in particular know that they hardly ever sit still. The birds were running along the tide line back and forth, and in and out of shadow cast by the piles of seaweed, and the direct warm light of a setting sun. Both lighting situations were good and I wanted to take advantage of both so I switched to auto with a little + compensation because the BG was bright, and I missed no opportunities. Had I stayed in manual I would have missed either the subject in shadow or the subject in warm sun.

I love the cormorant image. Because there is lots of detail in the whites of the neck I don't think it matters that much that some of the pixels are over the top. Plain white patches with no detail but << 255 look hot and blown much more than the neck of the bird here. It's the lack of detail as much as anything. I do see some yellow in the image but in the context of the time the image was taken, this is perfectly acceptable in my opinion.

**John Guastella** · 04-22-2011, 01:43 PM

The above might make a good thread in General :)

I would love to see this discussion continued in the General forum -- it would be very educational for advanced beginners, like myself. When I started shooting birds two years ago, I used Av exclusively and was frustrated because I ended with many poorly exposed images. I switched to using Manual and have never looked back.

I might suggest getting about two feet lower next time

And don't forget to bring your snorkel...

By the way, Ofer, beautiful image! WRT the color balance, I would like to see something between the original posted image and Peter's repost.

John

John

**Arthur Morris** · 04-22-2011, 01:55 PM

I am copying this thread to General under a new title. I will provide the link in a few. Please as requested by Mr. Shadle refrain from commenting here on the Manual vs Av issue :) Thanks.

**Arthur Morris** · 04-22-2011, 02:34 PM

Please make comments on Manual vs Av mode here: http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...nd-Other-Modes

Thanks, artie

Ofer Levy · 04-22-2011, 05:42 PM

Thank you all for the fantastic discussion! I have learnt a lot and might even try using AV every now and then (not often though...

)

This is what I love about a critique forum - exchanging ideas, even arguing sometimes - but in a friendly manner. The most important thing for me is to be able to learn and improve.

I have learnt everything I know about bird photography from great photographers in forums like BPN and it's a privilege to be able to keep learning and share my knowledge with other photographers.

Bird photography is not easy but it's not really rocket science either.....

We are all so lucky to live in this era when technology is quite close to be perfect and we can create almost everything we would like to create...

Happy shooting everyone and thanks again!

Cheers,

**Sidharth Kodikal** · 04-22-2011, 08:36 PM

Fantastic low angle, light, exposure and pose. Love it!

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