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If anyone has two unprocessed images that they would like to post here, please send them to me first via e-mail to samandmayasgrandpa@att.net as 800 wide, less than 200kb JPEGs. I will post those that I consider appropriate.
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I vote for "B." Might not meet the strict HA rules but it's a more appealing image.
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Originally Posted by
Oscar Vazquez-Ortiz
I vote for "B." Might not meet the strict HA rules but it's a more appealing image.
Hi Oscar, See Pane #18 on page 1 to see if you got it right or not. And why. There have been lots of quizzes since that one :) The red knots, Images S & T, are the latest quiz. Thanks for playing.
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I'd go with image B for the slight tilt towards us.
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Ah, at least we have one brave young soul. :)
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I choose G. The eyeball is rotated and looking at the viewer and the head seems to be turned toward the viewer. This may have caused the bill tip to be a tiny bit less sharp than the bill tip in image H but, IMO this is so slight that it doesn't overpower the viewer-to-bird eye contact.
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Image B for me to which seems to have better eye contact with the viewer, whereas Image A seems to be looking foward.
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It seems too obvious to be right, but I agree that image B has better creature-to-viewer contact. I would of course keep both!
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B for me too. Has better eye contact. "A" looks like the HA is parallel to the sensor plane.
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My vote goes to image 2. The head angle give the bird a personality.
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Well I'll go for image "A" as although "B" is more engaging If I were taking a picture in the field for ID purposes "A" would get my vote. Bill & forehead appear a smidgin sharper as compared to "B" which appears to have been moving it's head.
Cheers: Ian Mc
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"B" for me as well, it is more engaging.
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I have to admit I am a bit conflicted on my choice. Tuff choice!
It appears to me that Image A head angle resulted in the head/beak to be parallel to the senor. Thus the beak and head/eye are all the same focal plane resulting in the eye and beak being sharp.
The pose/head turn in Image B appears to me to have put the end of the beak and eye in different focal planes. However, depth of field seems sufficient to maintain the sharpness. I am curious, what was your f-stop and distance to subject? The pose in Image B does provides the viewer the perception of interaction/connection with the penguin which is a plus for me.
Based on my preference and emotions I select Image B as having the better head angle.
An interesting exercise, I an anxious to hear your thoughts.
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Originally Posted by
Phil Ertel
I have to admit I am a bit conflicted on my choice. Tuff choice! It appears to me that Image A head angle resulted in the head/beak to be parallel to the senor. Thus the beak and head/eye are all the same focal plane resulting in the eye and beak being sharp. The pose/head turn in Image B appears to me to have put the end of the beak and eye in different focal planes. However, depth of field seems sufficient to maintain the sharpness. I am curious, what was your f-stop and distance to subject? The pose in Image B does provides the viewer the perception of interaction/connection with the penguin which is a plus for me. Based on my preference and emotions I select Image B as having the better head angle. An interesting exercise, I an anxious to hear your thoughts.
You would up with the right answer. I do believe that in many case when the bird's head is turned 2-3 degrees towards us, with the bird perfectly parallel to the back of the camera, that they eye and the bill tip will be on the same plane, thus rendering both sharper....
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1/500 sec. at f/7.1 with the Canon 70-200mm with the 1.4X II TC hand held at 280mm with the MIV. This is going great; I am thrilled that so many are playing. I will try to remember to post my thoughts tonight! Lots more to come.
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BPN Member
I prefer "B" too. Much more engaging pose IMO.
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I prefer B for the same reasons that others have posted.
Bill
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I would like Artie to say A as I took many loon shots yesterday with this head angle. However, the slightly turned towards you ha is better - B.
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Thanks all for participating. I deleted A after saving it for this feature. The head of bird A is pretty much parallel to the back of the camera as many of you noted and this is a fine acceptable head angle (for me) for a perfect field guide portrait with the bird's body also parallel to the back of the camera. Here is the important lesson that nobody picked up on: in both of the images, each created in the same tenth of a second, the bird's body is angled slightly towards us. In these situations, the very minimum requirement is that the bird's head be on straight, that is, parallel to its body. In A the bird's head is actually turned away from the direction that the bird itself is pointed. In B, with the head turned just a bit more towards us, the head is on straight. As many noted, it seems that the bird is more engaged with us. For me, that is caused by the way the light is hitting the bird's face. In A, the face in front of the eye is darker than in B because the head is turned away from us and from the light. Even though it was cloudy, the light still had a direction. My two cents. After commenting on a few comments I will post two more. Good luck! Just to be clear, B has the best head angle.
Note: Thanks to Jon Saperia for correcting the typo above. Glad that someone was paying attention.
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BPN Member
Originally Posted by
Arthur Morris
Thanks all for participating. I deleted B after saving it for this feature. The head bird A is pretty much parallel to the back of the camera as many of you noted and this is a fine acceptable head angle (for me) for a perfect field guide portrait with the bird's body also parallel to the back of the camera. Here is the important lesson that nobody picked up on: in both of the images, each created in the same tenth of a second, the bird's body is angled slightly towards us. In the situations, the very minimum requirement is that the bird's head be on straight, that is, parallel to its body. In A the bird's head is actually turned away from the direction that the bird itself is pointed. In B, with the head turned just a bit more towards us, the head is on straight. As many noted, it seems that the bird is more engaged with us. For me, that is caused by the way the light is hitting the bird's face. In A, the face in front of the eye is darker than in B because the head is turned away from us and from the light. Even though it was cloudy, the light still had a direction. My two cents. After commenting on a few comments I will post two more. Good luck!
This thread is the third in the series you suggested folks read in the series on HA you suggested in a reply to a post I made in the "eager to learn forum". Think I was getting it - but your note here confuses me a bit. You said you deleted "B", yet it seems like you too prefer it. The light on the head does seem better on B, but the HA is not parallel to the FP while it does seem better in A. Am I understanding you correctly, what have I missed?
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Originally Posted by
Peter Kes
'A' seems to have the perfect angle, just a few degrees off the parallel plane, but there is no interaction between the bird and us. This headangle misses the intimacy a good headangle should accomplish.'B' has a headangle that one could argue is a little too much (25°?), but there is definitely contact with the bird which, for me, makes the difference.
Peter, my friend. You must either be bad in math or the Swiss use different degrees than we do :) In B I would estimate that the bird, and its head, are angled about 8 degrees towards us.
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I think S would meet the strict requirements of the HA commando force! LOL!
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I'm going with C as numero uno, the head is angled slightly up and toward the viewer and has more light on the face and eye. I also would keep D for two reasons, 1- the bird is intent upon his catch and therefore displaying more behavior, 2- storage is cheap these days:p
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First thanks for the replies above. I also find this exercise to be educational and fun.
In both C and D the head angle seems to be approximately the same. The bodies seems to have similar if not the identical pose also. The difference I see is the tilt of the head. In Image D the head appears to be slightly rotated toward the viewer whereas in Image C the head appears to on a 90% axis (not rotated). The result is that the head in Image C provides a slightly better view of the side of the face. Based on these perceptions I choose Image C as having the better presentation.
Last edited by Phil Ertel; 08-08-2010 at 06:45 PM.
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Post a Thank You. - 1 Thanks
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BTW, this is a very cool thread! In the time that I have been participating here on BPN (year and a half), the proper head angle capture technique has probably improved my bird photos more than any other technique learned! Thanks Artie and all!!
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I prefer image C also. I like the position of the eye better than in image d because the eye in image D is pointing slightly down ward towards the sand. The eye position in image C is more intimate.
Andrew
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C would be my choice for two reasons the eye looks better (more open?), and the position of the "mud" at the bottom of the beak looks better than its position on D
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Just my personal preference, but I would keep image D. The HA of image D keep the bill tip and the eye more on the same plane than image C.
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Artie, C in this case. Better view of the eye. You know I love playing in these ones.
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OK, I missed the first one, but in this I will go with C. The head is ever so slightly higher and tilted fractionally away from us. The angle also shows the eye a little more open.
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Originally Posted by
Stuart Bowie
OK, I missed the first one, but in this I will go with C. The head is ever so slightly higher and tilted fractionally away from us. The angle also shows the eye a little more open.
When you say, "The head is ever so slightly higher and tilted fractionally away from us" are you referring to D?
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Lifetime Member
Originally Posted by
Arthur Morris
When you say, "The head is ever so slightly higher and tilted fractionally away from us" are you referring to D?
No Artie, I mean in C, that the head is tilted slightly higher and tilted away from us. My final answer is still C.;)
In D, it seems to be lower.
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It may bea matter of semantics. Do you agree with this: in C, the bill tip is closer to us than in D?
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Hi Artie,
Cool game, sorry I missed the first 3 photo's! I think it is a matter of preference here. I would choose C as a more intimate/contact with the viewer shot because of the HA being slightly tilted towards the viewer compared to the body angle which points towards the viewer but also downwards. For a behavior kind of shot I would go for D. In this one the bird seems more focussed on the prey item and oblivious to the photographer (caused by the head and body angle being in the same plane and pointed towards the viewer but also down towards the prey item) which makes it more of a bahavioral kind of shot IMHO. So what I am getting at is that in my opinion it depends on what kind of a HA you want, one that is perfect technically or one that creates more of a behavioral kind of shot. Just my 2 cents.
Thanks for starting this one up.
Cheers,
Krijn
Last edited by Krijn Trimbos; 08-09-2010 at 05:02 PM.
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D, don't like the tilt in the head in C. The bird is engaged in a behaviour so eye contact is not as important IMO.
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BPN Viewer
Neat thread and sorry I missed the first set.
I think in both the head and body angles are in alignment and slightly toward the camera.
For me, it appears in C that the bird has rotated its head slightly to view the photographer and perhaps making it more intimate.
In D the bird has gone back to calmly doing its thing which I prefer.
Dave
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As noted above, each image has its strong points. For head angle, C wins by a mile as the head is rotated towards us. With me standing behind the 800 the head of the bird in C is parallel to the back of the camera; in D, it is turned slightly away from the plane of the sensor. Had I been lying down on the beach, D would have had the best head angle as the head would have been parallel to the back of the camera. Yes, with the bill tip closer to the plane of the eye in D, the bill tip is sharper in D. But here, this was the question: "Which head angle do you prefer and why?" :)
Note: the bird in C was in no way looking at me; birds are constantly changing head positions and angles even when they are resting. Also, this has nothing to do with eye contact but everything to do with the way the light hits the bird's face.
Thanks all for playing. I will try to post another pair when I get back from my walk.
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BPN Member
Originally Posted by
Arthur Morris
As noted above, each image has its strong points. For head angle, C wins by a mile as the head is rotated towards us. With me standing behind the 800 the head of the bird in C is parallel to the back of the camera; in D, it is turned slightly away from the plane of the sensor. Had I been lying down on the beach, D would have had the best head angle as the head would have been parallel to the back of the camera. Yes, with the bill tip closer to the plane of the eye in D, the bill tip is sharper in D. But here, this was the question: "Which head angle do you prefer and why?" :)
Note: the bird in C was in no way looking at me; birds are constantly changing head positions and angles even when they are resting. Also, this has nothing to do with eye contact but everything to do with the way the light hits the bird's face.
Thanks all for playing. I will try to post another pair when I get back from my walk.
I came in late but liked C before I read the opinions because the whole posture flows much better as the right leg is forward, the body is leaning forward a bit and the angle between the neck and the back is not as acute which connects the head with the body in a more pleasing way. These factors give a more cohesive picture of the bird's attention/energy being directed towards the object it is interested in
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Publisher
Originally Posted by
Andre van As
I came in late but liked C before I read the opinions because the whole posture flows much better as the right leg is forward, the body is leaning forward a bit and the angle between the neck and the back is not as acute which connects the head with the body in a more pleasing way. These factors give a more cohesive picture of the bird's attention/energy being directed towards the object it is interested in
Welcome Andre, You raise many good points. My opinion on those two images is in Pane 37. As there have been 361 or so comments, that pair is old news.
Did you miss this in Pane #1:
Important note: this is an ongoing thread. You can learn a lot by scrolling down but if you have played before and are re-visiting it would be best to go to the last page and scroll down to see the latest offerings.
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Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,
E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.
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Yes. A perfect head angle often results in what many folks would consider good "eye contact." I just don't think of it that way. And I am not sure that I would agree that all types of folks will like an image better if they feel that the wildlife subject is looking at them.
Many folks have remarked after studying a collection of my work that I seem to have some "connection" with my subjects. That I consider a supreme compliment. The funny thing is that while they all use the word "connection" none have every mentioned "eye contact."
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In E, the bird seems to be looking off into the distance, with the head angled slightly away. In F, my preferred choice, the head is angled toward me/sensor plane, and seems more engaged with us.
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I prefer image E because the HA is parallel or nearly parallel to the sensor plane. Although both images are keepers IMHO, image E is better because of the HA.