Head Angle Fine Points

[Arthur Morris]

Artie - in S the eye is round and appears more alert (for lack of a better word) and in T it is less than round, slightly oblong.Rachel

You were correct on the eye :)

[Rachel Hollander]

You were correct on the eye :)

Thanks Artie.

[Arthur Morris]

This is image U.

[Arthur Morris]

This is Image V. Which is the best head angle, and why?

[Brent Stephenson]

The answer based entirely on the head angle would be V. The head is angled slightly towards the camera, nice highlight in the eye, still a little squint through the nostril, and well lit all round. When taking into account the head angle relative to the body, V is also better with the whole body being slightly turned towards the camera in V also (thus the head and body are still in line). See I'm trying to learn :D
Cheers,
Brent

[Andrew Merwin]

I also choose image V. In image U the body is turned slightly toward the viewer & the head is turned slight away from the viewer. In image V the head is turned toward the viewer. That said, since I have been wrong every time with this exercise, I suggest to everyone that they choose image U.

[alexgwoodruff]

I prefer T also. I think that the body is angled ever-so-slightly away from the viewer with the head turned towards the viewer - so the eye and beak are on the same focal plane. With the head in this position there is more interaction with the viewer and the eye is lit well... did I do ok?

[Arthur Morris]

I prefer T also. I think that the body is angled ever-so-slightly away from the viewer with the head turned towards the viewer - so the eye and beak are on the same focal plane. With the head in this position there is more interaction with the viewer and the eye is lit well... did I do ok?

Hi Alex, Thanks for playing. You missed the current quiz--see Panes # 155-156 (Images U & V). And, I hate to say it, you flunked the previous quiz even though the answer key was available in Pane #152 above :) Try the current one!

[alexgwoodruff]

Ooops - I don't know why I wrote 'T' - I actually meant 'V' - sorry about that!

[Myer Bornstein]

I agree with V. The body is straight, slightly turned away, but the head is a couple degrees turned toward us, and it makes much better eye contact

[Arthur Morris]

Ooops - I don't know why I wrote 'T' - I actually meant 'V' - sorry about that!

Yeah, and the dog ate your homework too :) OK, we'll put you down for V.

[Jon Saperia]

I say V as well. To me though the body is slightly tilted away from the plane of the camera in both shots. I U, the bird appears to be looking off into space. Not that this matters for this exercise, but I think the lighting overall on the head is a bit better in V as well.
/jon

[Rachel Hollander]

I also say V, the head is angled a few degrees toward us. In U, it appears to me that the head is either parallel to the sensor or a couple of degrees away but the bird's body is also angled away from the sensor plane. U has an ethereal feeling of the bird gazing off into the distance which works with the fog but the HA is better in V.

Rachel

[Jon Saperia]

ETL would be perfect. Be sure to send me a link and I will tend to it if I am home :) Or Avian. Or as here, Wildlife. No head angles for plants...

Here is the new posting.

http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...463#post572463

Thanks
Jon

[Arthur Morris]

Thanks for the link Jon. Gang, this one is worth a look

[Gary Jones]

This is a very interesting forum - thanks.
I'd go with S. The shape of the eye seems more naturl and there is more engagement with the bird.

[Arthur Morris]

This is a very interesting forum - thanks. I'd go with S. The shape of the eye seems more naturl and there is more engagement with the bird.

Congrats Gary but your are one quiz behind. The answer to that quiz is in Pane #152 above. At least you got it right :) The latest quiz starts in Pane #155: U or V?

[Gary Jones]

Oops don't know how I managed being a quiz behind...:)

Here I'll go with V. The eye is catching more light and the angle si more engaging with the viewer.

[Arthur Morris]

Well, whatta know. Everyone got it right. Mazel tov! Delete U. Keep V. With the bird angled slightly away, the look-back head angle in V is what we needed.

[Arthur Morris]

Image W

[Arthur Morris]

Image X

Which head angle to you prefer and why?

[Arthur Morris]

ps: Please base your decision only on head angle and not on the framing or compostion :)

[John Hawkins]

I like W, the head angle is much more pleasing. In X, the head angle is too parallel to the camera. In W, it is a stronger pose, stately. If that makes sense.
John

[alexgwoodruff]

I agree, I prefer W. X looks as if the subject is disinterested, his attention is focussed elsewhere. With W the subject has some connection to the viewer.

[Andrew Merwin]

I also prefer W which shows a more complete view of the head & holds more interest for me.

[Arthur Morris]

But what about the advice that the best head angle always is the one with the head parallel or almost parallel to the imaging sensor???

[Myer Bornstein]

I agree with W for the reasons given and the advice re best head angle is only advice and on X with the head parallel it is only a guide book image :D

[Andrew Merwin]

But what about the advice that the best head angle always is the one with the head parallel or almost parallel to the imaging sensor???

Every rule has exceptions.
Rules are made to be broken.

[Rachel Hollander]

I too prefer W for the reasons already mentioned.

Rachel

[Arthur Morris]

You are all getting too smart :) The next one will be more challenging. As for my comment in Pane #178, there are no hard and fast rules for head angle--each body position and pose requires something a bit different. With a bird or animal facing us having the head parallel to the imaging sensor is almost as bad as having it looking away from you....

[Arthur Morris]

Image Y

[Arthur Morris]

Image Z.

Which has the best head angle and why?

[Myer Bornstein]

Yes Much harder. I vote for Y the vey slight turn of the head just makes the portrait more interesting

[John Hawkins]

I agree, Y is more pleasing. The bird seems to be looking at us and Z the bird seems a little disinterested. But only because we are looking at them back to back. Would be very hard to say Z would be deleted if this was only capture.

[Arthur Morris]

It is difficult to see any differences when scrolling. I shall make and post an animated GIF in a bit and then it will be easy to see which is best.... And why.

[Jon Saperia]

Not sure if the offer for an animated post is a suggestion Y is not the correct answer or just because this one is very hard --- but. I put both images on my desktop and looked at them at the same time. I am still going to go with Y. I agree the head angle is just a bit slightly more toward us which gives it the edge over Z. From what I can see a side effect of this turn is that the bill area just below the eye seems to have a tiny bit more detail in Y than in Z which helps the eye pop a bit more.
/jon

[Andrew Merwin]

I also prefer image Y. The HA is more toward the viewer making for a better connection with the viewer.

[Kaustubh Deshpande]

Arite, I am going to say Z as the bill tip is sharper...If Y had more DOF, I'd have selected it as its more engaging.

[Arthur Morris]

Not sure if the offer for an animated post is a suggestion Y is not the correct answer or just because this one is very hard --- but. I put both images on my desktop and looked at them at the same time. jon

As a former elementary school teacher I gotta say that that is for me to know and you to find out :)

[Jon Saperia]

;)
Guess I just have to wait. I was never this eager for test return results though.

[John Hawkins]

We were asked to pick based strickly on the head angle, correct? I'd still pick Y.
John

[Rachel Hollander]

This is a tough one and it took me a while to decide but I am going to go with Z. Although Y is pleasing and I probably would not notice a difference if they weren't next to each other, I believe there is more light hitting the side of the bill we see in Z.

Rachel

[Arthur Morris]

Well, we have a first ever here, a tie :) And many folks above noted the relevant points above. In Y, the light on the eye and on the black triangle in front of the eye is better than in Z (as per Jon). But in Z, the head is still turned a bit toward us and that is good. And as a result, the bill tip as noted by KD above is sharper.

I will optimize Z first and lighten the areas mentioned above. If that works I will not even bother to optimize Y. And here is the ugly truth: my original pick was Y. As Denise Ippolito said, if you saw either one alone you would think that it had the perfect head angle :)

[Jon Saperia]

I see the point about the bill tip. I missed that. I was looking more toward the eye area. I have been looking at your animation for a bit now and no matter how hard I try the head angle on Y seems more turned to me. A pointer on how Z is turned more toward the camera would help. I just do not see it.

[Arthur Morris]

I see the point about the bill tip. I missed that. I was looking more toward the eye area. I have been looking at your animation for a bit now and no matter how hard I try the head angle on Y seems more turned to me. A pointer on how Z is turned more toward the camera would help. I just do not see it.

Jon. The head on Y is turned more toward us than the head on Z. But the head on Z is absolutely turned toward us (but only a bit). The top of the bill tip in Z is on the exact same plane as the eye and that can only happen if the bird has its head turned toward us a bit.

[Jon Saperia]

Wow... you are faster than any other teachers I have ever had. Thanks. I am not sure I understand what "absolutely" in this case means, but the explanation about bill tip focus and the eye and the bill being in the same plane makes your point. Thanks.
/jon

[Arthur Morris]

:) Well either it is turned towards us or it is not. And I wanted to emphasize that it is so I used the absolute word. As for fast, I am just home right now.... With lots to do but I enjoy being on BPN. I am the mega-multi-tasker with a large dose of ADD (attention deficit disorder); I cannot do the same thing for more than three minutes in a row.... (Unless I am in the field photographing.)

[Jon Saperia]

Thanks this helps.

[Arthur Morris]

YAW. See Z optimized here.

[Arthur Morris]

Image AA