Friendly Bear

[Arthur Morris]

I received a suprisingly low four e-mail commenting on the Friendly Bear image. I am sharing them all with you below. It is interesting to see the huge divergence of opinion.

1: Hi-larious! Well played, sir. Best, Douglas Sisk

2: Artie, having been to Katmai myself annually for each of the past three years, I agree with you 1000% on the bears. To your points I would also add that I hate when people say it’s not natural to be so close to bears, and that bears “are suppose” to have a fear of humans. Clearly, the nearly blank slate ecosystem of Katmai refutes both points. The natural relationship between humans and bears is that bears are content to ignore small groups of humans who don’t get in their way, just the way species everywhere (like humans and pigeons) will peacefully share habitat without confrontation as long as they don’t need to compete for resources.

It’s depressing to see stories about “hazing” of black bears in urban areas like in Colorado – how will the hazed bear react next time there’s an unexpected encounter with a human? Instead of each party backing away slowly, the bear is likely to totally panic and possibly turn violent in defense.

Unfortunately our fear of predators is deeply engrained in our evolutionary history, so these attitudes are unlikely to change, but since you’re probably tired of hearing from negative people on the matter, I wanted you to know you have support on the subject. Brian Zeiler

3: Artie – You rock my world. Your patience and willingness / ability to entertain the man v bear discussion without getting nasty was fabulous. I love your practical, common sense approach to what you do. We’re all animals on this big blue ball. I hope to join you and the bears one year.

Meanwhile, I’m trying to make last minute plans to join you in Bosque again this year. Work is, as usual, making that difficult, but I hope to put it together in time. Best, Dan O’Leary

4: IMO, publishing that email was unnecessary. It was a private exchange between you and JR. I’m sure that he is not the only one who had reservations about the interaction with the bears. What was even more unnecessary was your final comment about big mouths and zero guts. You have a big mouth as well, but we overlook it because you don’t get paid to run it. Take photos, talk about technique, but leave your personal commentary, including insulting remarks, to others.

I do not require a response and you can publish my name if it makes you feel better. David Kilpatrick

[Mike Tracy]

Unless one has been to Katmai to view the bears they are not qualified in my eyes to pass judgment in regards to what happens when observing the bears in their environment.

The times I have photographed them along the shores of Hallo Bay they have approached unnervingly close to my wife and me. Federal regulations dictate that you can not approach them closer then 50 yards (I think) but the bears are allowed to approach as close as they wish. Knowing that going in you just have to hope for the best, trust in the knowledge of your guide and remember what was instructed to you about bear behaviors. I have also been told in no uncertain terms that if I didn't heed their every order the trip was over and we were flying back, no refunds.

A image I never felt was worth editing further but shows how close they have come to me (actually closer but I quit taking photos, sit still and watch ). 70-200mm, uncropped except to eliminate some bear do-do.

[David Smith]

Ah, I was wondering when you two would come to the party. I had been expecting your arrival. You should really subscribe to our Bulletins as I addressed these concerns today in a BAA Notes.

Artie:

I have been subscribing to your Bulletins long before this website was here. And I did read the e-mail exchange. I also realize that these are your tours and you set them up the way that you see fit and that is your right.. All I'm saying is that your image portrayed an extremely dangerous situation and could have resulted in a tragedy..

Later and love,

Dave

[Ákos Lumnitzer]

You are way out of line here. It seems that you are proposing that the members should be allowed to voice there opinions and then the publisher should simply shut up. Am I not allowed to express my position and defend my opinions?

Of course you are. Same as all members if done intelligently and in a civil manner. Correct? :) Should it not read their opinions and not there opinions though? ;)

Now I will try for a third time to get you to answer this question: What in my original post made you feel that you or anyone else was "not entitled to comment"?

There is nothing in the OP that says no one was entitled to comment. I merely made the statement after your comment "I was awaiting your arrival". That just reeked of sarcasm AFAIAC. Maybe it is my poor English knowledge and perception skills of this marvelous language that had me confused.

(You wrote, "... if this is the community that the ownership preaches then we are all entitled to comment as long as it is done in a civilized manner right?")

I really would appreciate your answers to the two questions in blue.

I know what I wrote. I have a very good memory! :)

[Arthur Morris]

Artie: I have been subscribing to your Bulletins long before this website was here. And I did read the e-mail exchange. I also realize that these are your tours and you set them up the way that you see fit and that is your right.. All I'm saying is that your image portrayed an extremely dangerous situation and could have resulted in a tragedy.. Later and love,Dave

With all due respect, the situation portrayed was a far less dangerous one than a photo of your getting in your car or crossing the street would be....

Also, see Mike Tracy's comments.

[Arthur Morris]

Oskosh,

Thanks for the brain typo correction (there/their).

re:

There is nothing in the OP that says no one was entitled to comment. I merely made the statement after your comment "I was awaiting your arrival". That just reeked of sarcasm AFAIAC. Maybe it is my poor English knowledge and perception skills of this marvelous language that had me confused.

Well I do not know what AFAIAC means but there is no need. I can see that our problems here arose because you assumed that you knew what I was saying but you did not. That often happens in e-mail exchanges (rather than in face to face conversations). Having done bird and nature photography for more than 26 years I pretty much know in advance which images/comments will draw the attention of folks who would like to shoot me down. So before I post them I take all factors into consideration: Was in doing something wrong? Dangerous? Do I have a good defense. I can see the potshots coming far in advance. So in my response to the two posts I was saying that tongue in cheek--I was suprised that it took so long. That is all that my comment meant. It was not at all meant to be sarcastic as you assumed. Are you Australians aware of what happens when you assume?

[Ákos Lumnitzer]

AFAIAC = as far as I am concerned

Just for the record my comment was not an attempt to shoot you down Artie! Of course I understand the reality and would love to go there sometime myself. I cannot wait to have a good lengthy chat with our possum coordinator to hear her trip report and see videos/photos.

Yes, I know assume. :) Good mate of mine. ;)

[Marina Scarr]

Please do explain what you mean. We do not appreciate insinuation here. Just say what you want to say honestly.
I really do not expect and answer as you have always chosen to ignore questions that I asked with regards to your posted images.
In addition, please explain the following actions taken by you and Maxis Gomez: driving at high speed up to a sensitive wading bird colony for the purpose of photography on a jet ski.
I eagerly await the answer to that question.

Hello Artie:
As I have expressed via PM to BPN owners in the past, your words toward readers have at times been condescending and harsh. Even though you personally responded to me that you were "working on it," your words to Mark are another example of your disregard for other people's feelings and opinions.

Your questions have been ignored b/c the ONLY questions you have ever posed are WHERE was my picture taken. Anyone can look at my pictures to confirm this fact. It is no secret that I only share sites with my friends for reasons which I made clear on a thread regarding this very topic which was deleted by BPN. If I miss a question posed by anyone which is unrelated to location, the only reason I may miss it is b/c I do not subscribe to even my own threads.

At no time did Maxis and I "speed" up to any sensitive area. I have been visiting the Alafia site since the 1980's via wave runner. Unfortunately, it is noisier than a pontoon boat, but not one bird flew away upon our approach. Furthermore, wave runners are welcome in the Alafia area. Anyone who knows me in the field and as an Audubon volunteer is aware of my love and respect for birds and nature.
Marina

[Arthur Morris]

Hi Marina,

re:

As I have expressed via PM to BPN owners in the past, your words toward readers have at times been condescending and harsh.

That is your opinion. I find it strange that you opt to take me to task for two or perhaps three comments that you did not care for while conveniently ignoring my other 9,320 or so posts.

Even though you personally responded to me that you were "working on it,"

I am always working on what some perceive as my bluntness. But I try never to be condescending or arrogant.

.... your words to Mark are another example of your disregard for other people's feelings and opinions.

Please let me know which of my words showed disregard for Mark's fellings and opinions. Folks are free to state their positions but I will defend my points when I believe that they are wrong ("The guide should have placed himself between the group and the bear...")

Your questions have been ignored b/c the ONLY questions you have ever posed are WHERE was my picture taken. Anyone can look at my pictures to confirm this fact. It is no secret that I only share sites with my friends for reasons which I made clear on a thread regarding this very topic which was deleted by BPN. If I miss a question posed by anyone which is unrelated to location, the only reason I may miss it is b/c I do not subscribe to even my own threads.

As someone who has made a career of sharing pretty much everything that I know I find your stance hard to stomach. It seems that many of your posts (such as this one) are written out of bitterness and negativity. Your choice not to subscribe to topic notifications would seem to reinforce that. Post a very few images but show up every once in a while to spread your bitterness. Nice touch.

At no time did Maxis and I "speed" up to any sensitive area. I have been visiting the Alafia site since the 1980's via wave runner. Unfortunately, it is noisier than a pontoon boat, but not one bird flew away upon our approach. Furthermore, wave runners are welcome in the Alafia area. Anyone who knows me in the field and as an Audubon volunteer is aware of my love and respect for birds and nature.

Your statement that "unfortunately it it noisier than a pontoon boat" is quite an understatement. It would seem that anyone who cares at all about the birds would stay far far away from sensitive nesting areas in a watercraft as loud as a jet ski. Many folks on the planet feel that jet skis represent noise pollution of the loudest kind and intrude on the rights of others trying to enjoy a day at the beach or on the water. I shall write to the folks at Audubon who manage the islands, ask them their position on jet skis in proximity of the nesting rookeries during the season, and get back to you here (should you bother to respond).

[Ed Cordes]

Well, I'll chime in here. I have been to Katmai and was surprised and thrilled to have the bear venture so close to us. We did nothing to encourage this, but it just happened. Our guides were professional and careful. The experience was outstanding!

RE the comments on posts, over my professional career (32 years as an eye doctor), I have learned the most from those who gave the most blunt and direct criticism. This type of input means the person making the criticism cares enough to tell you the truth. The only way to achieve excellence is to recognise mediocrity. As generally type "A" personalities both doctors and aspiring excellent photographers are often too emotionally involved with the decisions they have already made to recognize the need for improvement.

This is what separates BPN form the others. Constructive input will improve all of us.

[Arthur Morris]

Ákos,

First you wrote:

"I wonder what would happen if the 20-year attack free period suddenly ended? These are wild animals and people still tend to forget that. Who would get sued in that case? :D

Then you wrote:

"I am glad no one gets (had ever been) attacked. I look forward to all the fanfare and fireworks when someone (God forbid) finally does though! :( "

That was followed by:

"When your *** does get a chewing I will be first to say "I told you so!"."

And then:

"But, Mark, how dare you and I offer our views? We are obviously just targets to be shot at when our opinions differ."

And then when I wrote that I had been expecting the potshots you wrote:

"Just for the record my comment was not an attempt to shoot you down Artie!"

The first four comments above were clear attempts to shoot me down. All of them were negative. At least have the guts to stand behind your remarks and their (obvious) intent.

[Matt Reeves]

Hi everyone! I rarely post here due to time constraints, but do love this forum. A friend of mine had emailed this link, so I thought that I would shed some light on the subject. First off, I have to agree with Artie and some of the others here. If you have never been to Katmai (especially when the Salmon are running), you can't even start to comprehend what goes on their. Getting close to bears their, is not by choice. You have no choice! When the Salmon are their, as many as 100+ bears show up, within a couple of square miles. They are literally everywhere, and have only one thing on their mind, Salmon! We spend most of my time in the back country their, and have had 5-6 bears converging on us at once, with nowhere to go. They have Salmon on the brain, and will literally walk through you to get to them. We have also had mothers become so comfortable with our presence, that after a few hours, have started walking their yearlings over to us. This is most definitely when you go shoot somewhere else! The point is, that nothing these bears are doing, shows that they are associating people with food, or worse yet, recognizing people as easy prey. As long as you play by natures rules, these bears are just comfortable and care free with your presence, and are doing what bears do. Viewing them in the wild is a thing of beauty, as long as you remember a few things; Never do it alone, never carry food, avoid having the scent of food and fragrances on you or your clothing (this includes deodorants, perfumes, ect..), be very vocal in a calm voice (it relaxes them and makes them comfortable with your presence), and no matter what, remain absolutely calm, should you have a close encounter (if you show stress and fear, the bear will likely react to it). I hope this was helpful, and sheds a little more light on the subject.

Matt

[Arthur Morris]

Hi Matt, Well said. And thanks. The image you posted is showing only as a red X.

[Matt Reeves]

Hi Art, I'm not sure how to get the image to post. I inserted the link, but nothing. Any ideas?

[Axel Hildebrandt]

Hi Art, I'm not sure how to get the image to post. I inserted the link, but nothing. Any ideas?

Matt, I fixed the link. If you link from pbase you have to type /original.jpg after the image address.

[Matt Reeves]

Thanks for the help and info Axel.

[Arthur Morris]

Thanks Axel! And thanks again Matt. (You needed to get right down in the mud to minimize that white water. Cute momma and baby though and a cute pose by the little one).

[Matt Reeves]

Thanks for the advice Art. Btw... This was a very specially cub, as he/she was gimp. Not sure if you can see the mass around the front ankle, but apparently it was severely fractured the previous year, when it was a spring cub. Even though the mother would never leave it's side, it's amazing that it has survived the males this long. I really hope that I have the opportunity to shoot him again next year.

[Phil Ertel]

I usually avoid this type of discussion. However I thought I would share my experience. I must confess that I am not an expert and these are only my opinions; not fact. I have only been to Katmai once and that was a few years ago. I believe it was the year after Timothy Treadwell met his demise. Based on this experience and a combined total of approximately two month time spent backpacking in grizzly/brown bear country I find that Artie’s experience and opinions reflect those of mine concerning this topic.
From the first moment our plane landed on the pebble beach we were in close proximity of bears. There were bears several digging for clams in the mud flats exposed by the low tide. My group walked out into the mud flats and knelt down and observed/photograph bears claming for some time. Three bears came to within 10-15 yards. Once we had a clear path to leave we hiked to a grassy meadow where bear spend time eating sedge grass. When we first arrived there was one bear present. We position ourselves on a small elevated spot and settled down for a fascinating day of bear watching. At no time did we approach a bear. However several did approach us. Here as on the mud flats the bear came as close as 10 yards. The bears all appeared relaxed and calm. Most simply seemed to ignore us and concentrated on eating and sleeping. A couple did pause shortly to glance at us and quickly returned to consuming the sedge grass. It has been suggested that perhaps we should have move away from the bear as they approached. In our situation that was not possible as most of the time we were surrounded by bears and any retreat would have had us approaching a bear. It is one thing to have a bear approach you; it is an entirely different interaction when you approach them. There were as many as thirteen bears in the meadow with us at one time. At no time while in the vicinity of these bears did I feel threatened. To be perfectly honest I was more concerned with the plane ride to and from Homer. I also must add that driving on the Alaskan roads caused more adrenalin depletion that did my encounter with the bears.
In areas such as Katmai, when food is plentiful if one follows the rule and instructions of an experienced guide the threat to man (sorry if this offends any feminist) and bears is low. If the rules and instructions are followed there isn’t any real interaction just an occasional close proximity of man and bear. It was my experience that our presence did not alter the bear’s behavior. Is there a risk; most certainly. It is however my opinion that the risk is minimal. Furthermore, it is my opinion that bear watching provides exposure and education on the natural wonder of these animals and their environment which elicits support for the protection of both. I am not one that believes man should withdraw from experiencing/observing nature. I do believe we should be respectful and due our up most to protect/preserve and not to cause undue stress. Again, in my opinion this does not mean nature should be isolated from man or vise versa.
Therefore, considering my experiences and those of others that I know who have experienced this wonder, I do not believe that Artie’s actions and resulting picture was irresponsible or inexcusable. One of my wishes is to get to experience the bears of Katmai at least one more time in my life.

[Grace Scalzo]

Two questions for my own edification. Why was this bear distracted from eating long enough to come over and sniff George? That would have concerned me. Secondly, Artie mentioned to Matt that a lower angle would have been better, and Phil also mentions kneeling down when photographing/observing. My instincts would tell me to not appear as a small target to a bear and I do note that George is standing up. Thanks for your comments.

[Matt Reeves]

Regarding the the sniffing incident, I can't say because I wasn't their, but can assume. A bear has a sense of smell, like no other. I watched a ranger catch a Salmon one evening, immediately bleed it in the water, bag it, and rush water against the shore (it's the Katmai way of doing things). At that time, there were no bears seen, anywhere. The ranger left, and about 10-15 minutes later, a Grizzly came from way across the oxbow, possibly 1/2 mile away. The bear walked up to the exact spot that the ranger had caught the fish and bled it, and starting digging. I was absolutely amazed, at what I had just witnessed.

Regarding myself shooting from a high stance. I had 2 other bears in the water to my right, 1 about 20 feet behind me in the brush, and 1 about 20-30 feet to my immediate left, eating grass. For safety reasons, I chose to remain as erect as possible, as I did not want to put myself at their level, nor be in a position where if I had to move, I wouldn't be able to.

[Ákos Lumnitzer]

Artie

If me seeing it how I see it from the other side of the world without ever being there then saying what I did and how I did implies negative and gives you the feeling that I am shooting you down from your perspective then that is how you want to view it IMHO. I can tell you that even in person I would say the exact same thing and when I said "if you get your *** chewed I'd be the first to say I told you so" I would have a cheesy grin on my face as I'd tell you so really no harm intended just my smart-*** reply that I would say to any mate, which I guess you're not. Your reply to Mark Fuge "Who am I to argue with someone who knows so much?" appears nothing but plain arrogant as far as I read and surely many others would yet many would never dare tell you.


I think the biggest issue here is that you are the "great" Arthur Morris, professional bird photographer and educator, yet when somebody says something you find not to your liking you turn it around and make them look bad - not that it bothers me how you or anyone here sees me, my friends know me better and that is all that matters at the end of the day to me. Funny how you said to Marina Scarr about her not replying to your 9320-odd other questions I do have one question to you here in pane 29 which you somehow missed and I am positive that it was missed out of convenience and not oversight, because you do not miss anything. Funnily it was very close to the time when you contacted me via e-mail and addressed me as 'Yo momma' (you would address your friends like that not a complete stranger) or something like that and then went on about deleting a post of mine where I referred to an Aussie photographer playing the calls of an endangered local species call to get it close and you said to say the name out as people will work out who it was or say his/her name yet you NEVER mentioned who those people were. Now that I read what you wrote to Marina Scarr above I can put two and two together. Nice.

I think I will look elsewhere for inspiration from now as I spent way to much of my energies and efforts here for nothing. :D

Have a nice day Sir! :)

[Arthur Morris]

re:

Your reply to Mark Fuge "Who am I to argue with someone who knows so much?" appears nothing but plain arrogant as far as I read and surely many others would yet many would never dare tell you.

In Mark's post

Originally Posted by Mark Fuge
I feel your guide was wrong to let the bear get that close to any of his tour members. No matter how much experience he had. It should only have been based on how much experience he knew that George had with the bears up close. He should not judge the incident on his knowledge, when there is the slightest chance that others are a "potential victim". It would be different if the bear suddenly came out of the woods and walked in front of the group. But it appears from all indications that there was a lead time to safely separate the bear from the tour members. That is what should have been done.

he stated plainly that the guide was wrong. He stated clearly "This is what should have been done."

To me, that is arrogant, especially coming from someone who has never been to Katmai.


I think the biggest issue here is that you are the "great" Arthur Morris, professional bird photographer and educator, yet when somebody says something you find not to your liking you turn it around and make them look bad - not that it bothers me how you or anyone here sees me, my friends know me better and that is all that matters at the end of the day to me.

As I have said many times, I will take anyone to task for statements that I see as incorrect. I often accept criticisms and suggestions.

Funny how you said to Marina Scarr about her not replying to your 9320-odd other questions

Funny how that is not at all what I said. If you have any energy left, you might want to try re-reading it.

I do have one question to you here in pane 29 which you somehow missed and I am positive that it was missed out of convenience and not oversight, because you do not miss anything. Funnily it was very close to the time when you contacted me via e-mail and addressed me as 'Yo momma' (you would address your friends like that not a complete stranger) or something like that and then went on about deleting a post of mine where I referred to an Aussie photographer playing the calls of an endangered local species call to get it close and you said to say the name out as people will work out who it was or say his/her name yet you NEVER mentioned who those people were.

???????????????????????????????????????????

Now that I read what you wrote to Marina Scarr above I can put two and two together. Nice.

Funny that I have no idea what in the world you are either talking about or inferring. And yes, I thought that you were a friend until you started taking potshots at me here. And even funnier that you are choosing to ally yourself with Marina who has come off as nothing but negative here.

I think I will look elsewhere for inspiration from now as I spent way to much of my energies and efforts here for nothing.

Super.

[Arthur Morris]

ps: When I originally read this: "I do have one question to you here in pane 29" I thought that you were referring to pane 29 here (in this post), that is why I was confused. When I followed your link, I did understand what you meant. I did not answer that question as I did not want to start a war with the Maxis/Marina coalition. At the time, Maxis was involved in a spam advertising attack against BPN.

In addtion, the huge difference as I recall it is that in your post, you stated something to the effect that "everybody in Australia would know who the offending party was." In my post, nobody but James and I knew anything and at that time I chose to keep it that way.

If you have any more energy to waste, you can let me know if I am wrong about that.

[Kiran Khanzode]

How the puck did the female/mother bear get this close to the photographer??? Have you explained that to us, Arthur ?

What is the photographer's reaction to all this (the encounter and this thread) ? I want to know that more than anything....is he a member/participant here? I soooo want to hear his views on what's going on in this thread.

Glad this did not end up into a "Sigfried and Roy - Part Deux".

Btw, Art, you asked JR a question after he said he did not want to debate and you also brought up Treadwell...I guess that was enough for him to take the bait and reply back :-). You certainly did get the debate, though . ;-)

And, it's just sad to see you use words like 'big mouth'... can't you keep it civil, bro ? Or just be plain arrogant..if you like, but not guess someone's character and gut level.

For me, JR won the debate, btw. Had someone questioned my guts and mouth size..I would have lost "it". ;-)

[Arthur Morris]

KK,

re:

How the puck did the female/mother bear get this close to the photographer???

It walked.

Have you explained that to us, Arthur ?

I guess that I have now. I had assumed that everyone would have figured out that the bear walked up to the photographer. (Have you read the posts by the folks who have actually been to Katmai?)

What is the photographer's reaction to all this (the encounter and this thread) ?

I am guessing that George felt a mixture of fear and excitement.

I want to know that more than anything....is he a member/participant here?

Not that I know of.

I soooo want to hear his views on what's going on in this thread.

I will send him the link. After that, it is up to him.

Glad this did not end up into a "Sigfried and Roy - Part Deux".

Me too, but do understand that this is a commonplace occurence.

Btw, Art, you asked JR a question after he said he did not want to debate and you also brought up Treadwell...I guess that was enough for him to take the bait and reply back :-).

Guess so. I have taken the bait here a few times too.

You certainly did get the debate, though . ;-)

And, it's just sad to see you use words like 'big mouth'... can't you keep it civil, bro? Or just be plain arrogant..if you like, but not guess someone's character and gut level. For me, JR won the debate, btw. Had someone questioned my guts and mouth size..I would have lost "it". ;-)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[Arthur Morris]

Hi Grace,

re:

Two questions for my own edification. Why was this bear distracted from eating long enough to come over and sniff George?

I do not know. At times, the bears can be curious. Perhaps as I mentioned before George had the odor of halibut on his clothing from the afternoon before. But perhaps not as we pretty much did not handle the fish at all. So my best answer is that I do not know.

And I am not sure that distracted is an accurate word. When a dog is being walked and it stops to sniff a fire hydrant is it being distracted or is it just being curious or is it just doing what it is genetically programmed to do?

That would have concerned me. Secondly, Artie mentioned to Matt that a lower angle would have been better, and Phil also mentions kneeling down when photographing/observing. My instincts would tell me to not appear as a small target to a bear and I do note that George is standing up.

We have had bears approach closely while we were standing and while we were kneeling. The important things are to stay still, let the bear (or bears) know that you are there by talking to them (the guide usually does the talking), and most importantly, not to run away.

Thanks for your comments.

YAW. I have an image on the office machine that might help illustrate several of the points above. I will try to find it and post it.

[Dan Brown]

Wow, tons being said here! I would like to chime in with my 2cents. Years ago I was invited to travel to Denali NP, Alaska with a pro nature photographer. In prep for this trip, I did a little research regarding the bears in AK. I asked my friend for some books on the subject and he promptly loaned me a couple. The books were riveting, but they were really not what I expected, as they were compilations of ALL the bear attacks in AK history!! After reading this stuff, I was freaked out about being eaten by a grizzly! Of course in Denali the bear density isn’t anything like Katmai (I believe, but I’ve never been to Katmai). Although I’ve not been to Katmai, I’ve talked with a few photographers and fishermen who have and I believe that I’ve even seen a documentary on TV showing the situation with the bears being everywhere and coming very close to the observers/photographers (this might not have been Katmai but seems to me that the situation was the same). So, I decided a long time ago that the Katmai type experience was not for me!!

With the above being said, when I saw the “friendly bear” image here, my first reaction was “Oh, this is one of those situations where the bears can and do get really close, way too close for me, THE BIG CHICKEN”. But, I didn’t have the reaction that the leaders of this group had handled the situation wrong because my perception of the environment was pretty much as has been described above by Artie and others with experience at Katmai (the bears are all around you and doing their thing). I believe that the only way this situation could have been more safe for the photographers would have been if they had opted not to signup for the workshop!! To me, it’s like not choosing to skydive or bungie jump, you should know what you are getting into!

One thing learned in this thread (among many!!) is if you sign up for the Katmai experience, you now know what you are getting into!

I hope this post hasn’t been to rambling?
Dan Brown, THE BIG CHICKEN!!

[Cliff Beittel]

. . . One thing learned in this thread (among many!!) is if you sign up for the Katmai experience, you now know what you are getting into! . . .

Dan,

For a great review of bear attacks in Alaska generally (there have been quite a few) versus in areas of high bear concentration, see:

http://www.polarbearsinternational.o...on,_humans.pdf

(Don't ignore the link because it's Polar Bears Intl.--this is a study on Brown Bear behavior.)

What the study shows is that Brown Bears are far less aggressive, both toward each other and people, in highly-concentrated feeding situations like Katmai, with the odd result that the more bears you see, the less likely you are to be attacked by one. Even within Katmai, I'd guess that the situation with Artie's tour is safer than usual, given that there is a large group of people generally sticking pretty close to a guide carrying pepper spray. At Brooks Camp, on the other hand, once you cross the ranger-controlled bridge just outside of camp, you are on your own. Pepper spray, though legal in the park, is not permitted by TSA even in checked luggage. Shoot late at the falls, and you can easily find yourself walking half a mile through dark woods alone--potentially a much more dangerous situation given that the bears use the same trail. Even at Brooks, though, there have been only two injuries (mentioned in the above paper) and I believe one other minor incident with no injury (a bear essentially ran over someone in its haste to be elsewhere). With over 300 people present at midday, some of them idiots (I heard one threaten to punch a small, older, female volunteer if she again barred him from getting to the bridge because of a bear on the trail), I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is a more serious incident; Brooks' overall record, even if/when that happens, will still be incredible.

While Katmai hadn't had any fatal maulings until the deaths of Treadwell and Amy Huegenard, Brown Bears have killed elsewhere in Alaska. In places where bears are not accustomed to encountering people, they are far more likely to react aggressively when surprised. Safe distances there are much larger.

The above paper mentions the research of Dr. Stephen Herrero, who has analized virtually all bear attacks in North America. Herrero's book, Bear Attacks, Their Causes and Avoidance, is a great read, even if not essential for a coastal Katmai trip.

[Arthur Morris]

Thanks Cliff. Above is the image that I promised to find for Grace. It pretty much sums up the situation. The seated guy is our guide.

[Arthur Morris]

Note to all. Until the few folks who had actually been to Katmai began commenting here I was feeling pretty much being hung out to dry. If I offended anyone personally with my remarks, please accept my apology. Note: I will always feel free to disagree but will try to do so in a more civil manner than I did here at times.

[Arthur Morris]

ps to KK: whaddya have against Meatloaf?

[Axel Hildebrandt]

I find this thread can really help people make an informed decision whether Katmai is for them or not. Dan's post sums it up nicely.

Cliff, thanks for the extra information and link.

[Grace Scalzo]

Thanks for that image, Artie. It really made me laugh with the bear striding off to mind his business with the guide sitting there. This ended up being an educational thread.