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Thread: Home From Galapagos/#1

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Default Home From Galapagos/#1

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    Just got in from Quito/MCO after my greatest ever Galapagos trip, my sixth in five years. We ran into about a dozen Galapago Hawks on the beach at Urbina Bay, Isabella Island. This young bird was photographed backlit in bright sun just a few minutes before 11am. Canon 800mm f/5.6L IS lens with the 1.4X II TC and the EOS-1D MIII. ISO 400. Evaulative metering +2/3 stop: 1/200 sec. at f/9.

    Hotspots tamed with ACR conversion and several Quick Masked Linear Burns.

    Don't be shy; all comments welcome.
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    Looks like he's telling you something Artie !!! LOL.
    Delightful image, beautifully edited.
    Cheers: Ian Mc

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    Daniel Belasco
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    Far be it for me to critize.

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Belasco View Post
    Far be it for me to critize.
    Well, you can like it or not like it and let us know why either way :)
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    BPN Member Alan Murphy's Avatar
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    Great action and comp. Excellent post processing if flash was not used. I might add more blacks to the neutrals in the head.

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Murphy View Post
    Great action and comp. Excellent post processing if flash was not used. I might add more blacks to the neutrals in the head.
    No flash permitted in Galapagos.... Thanks for the suggestion. I will give it a go.
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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Kes View Post
    Hi Arthur - I do like the face (s)he's giving you, beak open and calling: details in the beak are beautiful. Backlight giving it this extra punch. Bright details of the chest are questionable, looking a little congested.
    Thanks Peter. I am a bit confused by this: Bright details of the chest are questionable, looking a little congested."

    Are you referring to the two birght feathers on the right side of the bird's neck? (The entire chest was in shade and looks fine here.) And not sure by what you meant by congested.
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    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    Artie, aside from the brilliance of the image, seeing the sharp details down into the depths of the gullet, and then doing the math pertaining to your lens/distance from subject - 800 x 1.4 x 1.3 - simply makes some of us drool for long glass and wonder in amazement at your ability to travel with such heavy gear.

    My brother just finished reviewing your Antarctic Tutorial CD and is sending me your suggested equipment list!

    You are an amazing artist with some the heaviest paint brushes imaginable!!
    Cheers, Jay

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    Avian Moderator Randy Stout's Avatar
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    Artie:

    Good to see you back safely. It is interesting how much detail you got in the mouth without flash, esp. in a back lit situation. I know you commented on an image recently that had a well illuminated mouth, and you stated that you would have sworn flash was used.

    I do agree with Peter, there is something odd looking about the mainly white/cream feathers on the neck just where it merges with the chest. The detail, or lack there of, looks odd, compared with the feathers on lower chest. Perhaps that is a characteristic of this bird, but it looks rather flat, like too much post processing was used. I know it wasn't, just what it looks like to me.

    Cheers

    Randy

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    No flash? Simply superb exposure control Artie, I envy you so much for being able to go to Galapagos!
    I love the power of the image, great atitude and detail, colors and sharpness, nice comp and although light was not ideal, you managed it perfectly! Congratulations!

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    Brian Barcelos
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    Welcome back Artie, This one is simply superb. You can almost read his lips.:D The eyes here really pull you in. Composition is great and BG++. Congrats.

    Brian

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    ┴kos Lumnitzer
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    Welcome back Maestro. :)
    What an incredible gape! love the details down the throat. Super eye contact and BG. You da man!

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    Randy,

    re:

    Good to see you back safely.

    :)

    It is interesting how much detail you got in the mouth without flash, esp. in a back lit situation. I know you commented on an image recently that had a well illuminated mouth, and you stated that you would have sworn flash was used.

    The look here and the look there were completely different to me (though this image did remind me of that one).

    I do agree with Peter, there is something odd looking about the mainly white/cream feathers on the neck just where it merges with the chest. The detail, or lack there of, looks odd, compared with the feathers on lower chest. Perhaps that is a characteristic of this bird, but it looks rather flat, like too much post processing was used. I know it wasn't, just what it looks like to me.

    Ah, now I see what Peter was talking about and I agree with both of you. I will need to go back and re-do this one from scratch. Lots of work there... The repost here is a tight crop of the problematic area after an unmanipulated ACR conversion; all but one of the feathers shows good detail.

    Note the tiny parts of the really hot areas upper left.
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    Hi Jay,

    re:

    Artie, aside from the brilliance of the image, seeing the sharp details down into the depths of the gullet, and then doing the math pertaining to your lens/distance from subject - 800 x 1.4 x 1.3 - simply makes some of us drool for long glass and wonder in amazement at your ability to travel with such heavy gear.

    Thanks for your kind words. Drooling is no substitute for top-notch technique, the ability to get the techs and sharpness spot on, and being able to not ruin the image in post.... Most times when I let the droolers put a card in the big lens with a TC the first thing that they ask me is "Can you get the bird in the viewfinder for me?" Once you master that, all you need to do is learn to focus accurately, create a sharp image, design a pleasing composition and come up with the right EXP practically instantaneously, and then press the shutter button.... As I say often, "It ain't the lens...." :)

    My brother just finished reviewing your Antarctic Tutorial CD and is sending me your suggested equipment list!

    I hope that that is all that he is sending you: no sharing except for spouses....

    You are an amazing artist with some the heaviest paint brushes imaginable!!

    It ain't the size of the brush or the canvas or the paints.... Lots of folks own 800s. Do check out my upcoming posts. Many were made with short lenses.... (The fish eye sea-lion in Wildlife for one.)

    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

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    Artie, Congratulations for a great capture, what makes this image special for me is the expression on the eyes and the open beak, of course everything else is almost perfect given the dificult light conditions.
    Was the bird's display directed at you ?

    Regards
    Fernando Cerra

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    Welcome back, I really like the eyes on this one, there's a crisp quality to them and I think I can see the horizon:)
    Along with the open beak they make the expression. Quite powerful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fernando Cerra View Post
    Was the bird's display directed at you ? Regards, Fernando Cerra
    Thanks Fernando and all for your help and kind words. The bird was not at all reacting to me. I was creating a series of vertical head and shoulders portraits when the bird simply opened its bill. I do not recall it making a sound. Keith Kennedy was photographing right next to me at the time. I did hear his shutter fire when the bird opened its bill and realized that Keith had not been looking through his viewfinder for the magic moment. I showed him the image and, as I often do in such situations said jokingly, "I'm gonna be famous!"
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    IOTY Winner 2009 Mark Dumbleton's Avatar
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    Stunning image Artie. Lovely expression on the face! Excellent exposure considering the backlighting.
    Well done!

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    Lovely intense shot! The detail is great, the open beak greater and the BG is nice! I agree with going back to ACR for the highlit feathers. Good to hear you had a great trip!

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    Killer one Bhai... good to see you back was sort of missing you, Superb exopure on this one.. Loved the open bill and details here.. when its a raptor I am totally into the bird. waiting for more guru.

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    Ryan Lambert
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    What stands out for me is the excellent exposure on a back-lit subject. The lack of detail from some of the feathers is most probably from the hotspots you "tamed". I would most probably go about +5 on the contrast of the subject to try and lift it from the BG a tad more, not sure what you think? Having said that the subject is extremely sharp especially at that FL, and the eyes have a super amount of detail in them.

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    Haey Artie, glad to hear that you enjoyed so much the travel and hope to see some of the images that you made in Galapagoes.
    This portrait is just stunning. It is amazing how well digital bodies and lenses manage the backlights, really good (of course, the photographer has to make the camera to work properly)

    The Bg is just outstanding and I like the composition a lot. That open bill rocks and the eyes are cristal clear.
    I think that the image needs just a bit of increased contrast and removing what seems to my a blue cast in th ehorny parts of the beak.

    Very good portrait :-)

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    I really enjoy seen at this image. It's powerful and the BG clean as I like it. Beautiful subject indeed.
    Could be my eyes but I see something like a bluish line right on top of the head. (do this have to do with the refine edge tool?)

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    This is what I mean.

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    Avian Moderator Stu Bowie's Avatar
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    You couldnt have timed it better. Great head on capture, love the open beak, and with excellent eye contact. Im sure you came away with some fantastic images.

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan Carlos Vindas View Post
    I really enjoy seen at this image. It's powerful and the BG clean as I like it. Beautiful subject indeed. Could be my eyes but I see something like a bluish line right on top of the head. (do this have to do with the refine edge tool?)
    Yes, there is a bluish line there. It likely came from a poor choice of settings with Refine Edge as the line is not evident in the original.... In view of all the great suggestions here I do need to re-do this image at some point.

    You guys are too sharp-eyed for me!

    ps: Do you see any trace of the blue line in the image here?
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    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    Hi Artie, on my laptop I saw a faint (1 pixel?) blue line so I downloaded to LR to crop further and then went to PS to add some white to help the blue standout. There is blue there if that is what you are looking for - at least it appears blue to me.

    I am assuming you are asking/saying that there should not be any blue whatsoever at the top of the head.

    I did see it in the original image; I guess I wrongly assumed that is should be there because of all of the blue in the beak area I thought the feathers too should have the blue cast.

    Eagle-eyed Juan has just taught me not to accept anything is necessarily right.

    There is a blue cast on the chest too that I thought was correct.

    This certainly establishes the need to truly be an ornithologist when it comes to not only correctly identifying a bird, and also exactly how the bird is supposed to appear.

    Thanks again for the teaching experience whether intentional or not. I love this place; it rocks! :D
    Cheers, Jay

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Thanks Jay. Do you see any trace of the blue line in the image in pane 28?
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    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    Yes, that is why I took the trouble to do the download. I didn't download the original; I downloaded pane 28. Hope that helps.

    Artie, I don't mind saying publicly "it is really tough" for a newbie like myself to say anything negative about your images or any of the Masters here on BPN. That fact that you/and they invite open critiques speaks so highly it is beyond words. Thank you.
    Cheers, Jay

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Gould View Post
    Yes, that is why I took the trouble to do the download. I didn't download the original; I downloaded pane 28. Hope that helps.

    Artie, I don't mind saying publicly "it is really tough" for a newbie like myself to say anything negative about your images or any of the Masters here on BPN. That fact that you/and they invite open critiques speaks so highly it is beyond words. Thank you.
    Hi Again Jay, Actually I am glad that there is a faint line in the original (pane 28). Would you agree that it is more prominent in JC's post in pane 26?

    There are a few things that I would like to note with regards to your second set of comments. I have stated repeatedly that while I have a great eye for form and shape and COMP I do not have a good eye at all for fine detail, so lots of times the sharp-eyed folks here are of great help to me. (See above and the fish-eye sea-lion in Wildlife....) So I do invite open critiques.

    That said, I have felt on some occasions that folks invent negative stuff just so that they can take a shot at Mr. Famous Bird Photographer. That happened much more during the first six months of BPN than recently. Whenever it happened I would defend my images politely and repeatedly. Some folks even commented that I should not be defensive since I always state, "Don't be shy; all comments welcome."

    All comments are welcome but they need to be accurate not invented :)

    Lastly, all are reminded that critiques should be based on the originally posted JPEG not on enlargements or super-enlargements of the downloaded JPEGs. :) I am giving JC a free pass here as he did see the blue line in the image in pane 1 :) Do note that the first 15 or so folks missed that.
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    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    Artie, I am not sure where you going with this?

    And, BTW, what is the free pass business?

    The faint blue line is more prominent in #26 than #28, and it is more prominent in #29 than #28 because I had to enlarge it to bring it out and I added the white canvass to help the eye see blue against the white (even though the green is between the blue line and the white).

    Of course, the blue line is more prominent in #26 than in the OP too.

    Mate, I am not sure I understand this statement:

    "critiques should be based on the originally posted JPEG not on enlargements or super-enlargements of the downloaded JPEGs."

    There is a faint blue line in the OP, and it is highlighted by the enlargement in #26. Aren't they one and the same, and #26 is simply an enlargement of the OP to illuminate Juan's identification of the blue line?

    ??
    Cheers, Jay

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Hi Jay,

    re:

    I am not sure where you going with this?

    If you are still confused after my commments below please let me know what confuses you.

    And, BTW, what is the free pass business?

    In my letter to the community, I wrote: "We ask that you not find fault with an image that has been enlarged, darkened, or otherwise manipulated (by you).

    As I stated above, I did not bust JC for enlarging the image to find a problem because he did see the blue line in the original post. Thus I gave him a free pass.

    The faint blue line is more prominent in #26 than #28, and it is more prominent in #29 than #28 because I had to enlarge it to bring it out and I added the white canvass to help the eye see blue against the white (even though the green is between the blue line and the white).

    I have no problem at all with that.

    Of course, the blue line is more prominent in #26 than in the OP too.

    I guess that that is where I was going. It shows that there were indeed problems with my slection and Refine Eddge settings. I will try and see if I can make a better selection and cleaner edges.

    Mate, I am not sure I understand this statement:

    "critiques should be based on the originally posted JPEG not on enlargements or super-enlargements of the downloaded JPEGs."

    In my letter to the community (as above) I neglected to include the words "by you," at the end of that sentence. You are the 2nd person to have been confused. I shall make that point clear in a follow-up.

    In the above quote, this makes things clearer:

    "critiques should be based on the originally posted JPEG not on enlargements or super-enlargements of the downloaded JPEGs created by the person critiquing the image."

    In other words, restrict your comments to stuff that you can see in the original post. At times, folks will enlarge or intentionally darken a posted JPEG in order to find something negative to say.

    There is a faint blue line in the OP, and it is highlighted by the enlargement in #26. Aren't they one and the same, and #26 is simply an enlargement of the OP to illuminate Juan's identification of the blue line?

    Agree.
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    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    Arthur Morris;304799]Hi Jay,

    Hi Artie, perhaps because for us it is bed time I am not clear on what you are saying :o

    re:

    I am not sure where you going with this?

    If you are still confused after my comments below please let me know what confuses you.

    And, BTW, what is the free pass business?

    In my letter to the community, I wrote: "We ask that you not find fault with an image that has been enlarged, darkened, or otherwise manipulated (by you).

    On a related note, please base your comments on the image as viewed at the posted resolution. We ask that you not find fault with an image that has been enlarged, darkened, or otherwise manipulated.
    This is the comment you are referring to. You have now added "by you".

    I am confused on two level/different points.

    As to the original statement, almost all images on BPN have been enlarged, darkened, or otherwise manipulated. Simply cropping an image enlarges the persentation; PP is encouraged. It appears that there is a conflict between the two sentences quoted.

    When you add "by you" I am a bit more confused - why would I find fault with something I enlarged etc?

    I would assume that PP someone else's image is done to suggest a different presentation. Why would I find fault with a RP?

    I am sorry if I am being dense.

    As I stated above, I did not bust JC for enlarging the image to find a problem because he did see the blue line in the original post. Thus I gave him a free pass.

    What do you mean by a "free pass"? That what he did was OK; that he doesn't get demerit points? Again, I think I saw that term used once before and didn't ask about it. Now I am asking in this context.

    The faint blue line is more prominent in #26 than #28, and it is more prominent in #29 than #28 because I had to enlarge it to bring it out and I added the white canvass to help the eye see blue against the white (even though the green is between the blue line and the white).

    I have no problem at all with that.

    Of course, the blue line is more prominent in #26 than in the OP too.

    I guess that that is where I was going. It shows that there were indeed problems with my slection and Refine Eddge settings. I will try and see if I can make a better selection and cleaner edges.

    Mate, I am not sure I understand this statement:

    "critiques should be based on the originally posted JPEG not on enlargements or super-enlargements of the downloaded JPEGs."

    In my letter to the community (as above) I neglected to include the words "by you," at the end of that sentence. You are the 2nd person to have been confused. I shall make that point clear in a follow-up.

    In the above quote, this makes things clearer:

    "critiques should be based on the originally posted JPEG not on enlargements or super-enlargements of the downloaded JPEGs created by the person critiquing the image."

    Mate, this is not clear and needs to be refined. If you didn't see something in the image as posted, why would you enlarge or super-enlarge to go on a fishing expedition?

    In other words, restrict your comments to stuff that you can see in the original post. At times, folks will enlarge or intentionally darken a posted JPEG in order to find something negative to say.

    Frankly, none of us have time for what you just described. If a person frequently/consistently can be seen to doing what you have just described, well - it is your Forum/you are the owner/ - identify the problem and deal with it. Invite such a person who goes hunting for something negative to say to take his comments elsewhere.

    Intentionally trying to find something negative to say is like crying "fire" in a movie theater. Free speech has it limitations!!

    There is a faint blue line in the OP, and it is highlighted by the enlargement in #26. Aren't they one and the same, and #26 is simply an enlargement of the OP to illuminate Juan's identification of the blue line?

    Agree. [/quote]

    Good night, Mate. Catch you my manana. ;) :D
    Cheers, Jay

    My Digital Art - "Nature Interpreted" - can now be view at http://www.luvntravlnphotography.com

    "Nature Interpreted" - Photography begins with your mind and eyes, and ends with an image representing your vision and your reality of the captured scene; photography exceeds the camera sensor's limitations. Capturing and Processing landscapes and seascapes allows me to express my vision and reality of Nature.

  34. #34
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Yes, some folks enlarge or darken an image in order to find a problem that is not evident in the JPEG. So that makes them images enlarged or darkened by the person doing the critique....

    If that does not clear things up, maybe sleep will.
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    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Yes, some folks enlarge or darken an image in order to find a problem that is not evident in the JPEG. So that makes them images enlarged or darkened by the person doing the critique....

    If that does not clear things up, maybe sleep will.
    :eek: Good Morning! Catch someone repeatedly doing what you describe and I/WE? will support showing them the door! :D
    Cheers, Jay

    My Digital Art - "Nature Interpreted" - can now be view at http://www.luvntravlnphotography.com

    "Nature Interpreted" - Photography begins with your mind and eyes, and ends with an image representing your vision and your reality of the captured scene; photography exceeds the camera sensor's limitations. Capturing and Processing landscapes and seascapes allows me to express my vision and reality of Nature.

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    Good night!
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Yes, there is a bluish line there. It likely came from a poor choice of settings with Refine Edge as the line is not evident in the original.... In view of all the great suggestions here I do need to re-do this image at some point.

    You guys are too sharp-eyed for me!

    ps: Do you see any trace of the blue line in the image here?
    Yes sir I do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Yes, there is a bluish line there. It likely came from a poor choice of settings with Refine Edge as the line is not evident in the original.... In view of all the great suggestions here I do need to re-do this image at some point.

    You guys are too sharp-eyed for me!

    ps: Do you see any trace of the blue line in the image here?
    Dear Arthur.

    My intention to point out the bluish line is not because I am looking for diminutive faults in your or other member's work.

    I thing I really like from this site is the way we all share our thoughts and hope that no one will get upset.
    You see my work one way, I see yours in a different way, but that is, I believe, what makes our skills better. You can see things that to me could be insignificant, but if I have an open mind then I can learn a good deal of things and techniques that will help me and just me in getting better images, not just when I press the shutter but also after in the computer.

    I am glad I did not enlarge your image. I in fact can see the same bluish line in the 3 versions above but it does not mean that the image loose image quality for that. Is just my personal observation and I know that may be some members could think that I am a picky person, well, I know one thing for sure and that is: if I want to become a better photographer I first must see other people's work, see where their work could be improved and try to use that information for my own improvement.
    I hope I am not been too fussy for that. jc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan Carlos Vindas View Post
    Dear Arthur.

    My intention to point out the bluish line is not because I am looking for diminutive faults in your or other member's work.

    I thing I really like from this site is the way we all share our thoughts and hope that no one will get upset.
    You see my work one way, I see yours in a different way, but that is, I believe, what makes our skills better. You can see things that to me could be insignificant, but if I have an open mind then I can learn a good deal of things and techniques that will help me and just me in getting better images, not just when I press the shutter but also after in the computer.

    I am glad I did not enlarge your image. I in fact can see the same bluish line in the 3 versions above but it does not mean that the image loose image quality for that. Is just my personal observation and I know that may be some members could think that I am a picky person, well, I know one thing for sure and that is: if I want to become a better photographer I first must see other people's work, see where their work could be improved and try to use that information for my own improvement. I hope I am not been too fussy for that. jc
    I appreciate your taking a close look at this and all of my images. Your suggestions can only help me improve. And, as we both said, you were able to spot the problem in the originally posted JPEG so enlarging it after that is fine with me.

    So thanks again for your help! I look forward to meeting you in CR one day.
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    I appreciate your taking a close look at this and all of my images. Your suggestions can only help me improve. And, as we both said, you were able to spot the problem in the originally posted JPEG so enlarging it after that is fine with me.

    So thanks again for your help! I look forward to meeting you in CR one day.
    Hola maestro!

    That would be my pleasure.

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    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    Well, I finally got around to re-doing this image from scratch. I believe that thanks to all above, it is a huge improvement. There is a great lesson for those who continue to follow the thread. As we saw that the thin light blue (actually CYAN) line was present to some degree in the original, I went to the Lens Correction tab in ACR, set FiIx Red/Cyan Fringe to +30 and selected Highlight Edges from the drop down menu in the Defringe box. (Not sure if the latter did anything noticeable but I figured it could not hurt.) IAC, the CYAN line pretty much disappeared.

    To prevent loss of detail in the breast feathers I used Curves rather than Shadow-Highlight to lighten the middle and darker tones and it seems to my eye that the fine detail has been preserved.

    Thanks again for helping me improve this image with better Image Optimization techniques.
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

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  42. #42
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    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    This tight crop shows that the CYAN fringe is negligible at best.
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

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  43. #43
    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    Artie, #43 is #1!!
    Cheers, Jay

    My Digital Art - "Nature Interpreted" - can now be view at http://www.luvntravlnphotography.com

    "Nature Interpreted" - Photography begins with your mind and eyes, and ends with an image representing your vision and your reality of the captured scene; photography exceeds the camera sensor's limitations. Capturing and Processing landscapes and seascapes allows me to express my vision and reality of Nature.

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