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Thread: Excited By a TV???

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    Default Excited By a TV???

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    Turkey Vulture, ugly as sin, has been of one of my best selling species. If you take a look at proportions, I have surely sold a higher percentage of my TV images than of any other species. I went down to the lake this morning to photograph some water lilies but did a quick drive around first to check on the birds. A group of TVs were on a crappie that the young Ospreys had dropped and I was able to get close in my SUV, big lens on the BLUBB.

    Canon 800mm f/5.6L IS lens with the 1.4x II TC and the EOS-1DMIII. Evaluative metering +1/3 stop: 1/500 sec. at f/8 set manually.

    Don't be shy; all comments welcome.
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    Super Moderator Daniel Cadieux's Avatar
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    I'd get excited with any TV that would let me get so close and so effortlessly. That is an awfully clean bill that this carrion eater has here! We don't often see the hints of blues in the plumage such as here...almost makes it look pretty. Hey, we can see your SUV in the eye :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Cadieux View Post
    I'd get excited with any TV that would let me get so close and so effortlessly. That is an awfully clean bill that this carrion eater has here! We don't often see the hints of blues in the plumage such as here...almost makes it look pretty. Hey, we can see your SUV in the eye :-)
    Thanks Dan. This guy just flew in to join two others. The prettiest one that I photographed well had one big fish scale on his bill. The bill of this bird was just about perfect. Hey, you can see me too on the TIFF! I did approach very slowly.... One tip for folks: have your big lens on the BLUBB and out the window as you approach, otherwise you will likely scare the birds when you lift it.....

    ps: Dan, remember, these are Florida birds!
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    I posted a Black Vulture a while back and noticed the two species hang together. The BV seem to be a very close family, I believe the TV is a tad larger.

    I was wondering with the 800MM and the 1.4 TC what is your effective range to fill your frame say (25%). I was thinking, can you even use flash with this much zoom?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Cashdollar View Post
    I posted a Black Vulture a while back and noticed the two species hang together. The BV seem to be a very close family, I believe the TV is a tad larger.

    I was wondering with the 800MM and the 1.4 TC what is your effective range to fill your frame say (25%). I was thinking, can you even use flash with this much zoom?
    Actually, once the BVs came in they drove the TVs away. Even though the TVs are larger, this is typical. The BVs must be tougher.

    Jeff, I do not quite understand this: "I was wondering with the 800MM and the 1.4 TC what is your effective range to fill your frame say (25%)." Please explain.

    There is no problem using flash with long equivalent focal lengths; I do it often. It is a bit more difficult when working from the car; I need to use one of the Wimberley flash brakcets that attaches to the lens foot. Otherwise, no problem at all with a Better Beamer.
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    Artie, Very nice portrait of a TV w/ great details . I would like to add that the BLUBB is a really great design and I really love it-just wanted you to know!!

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    Thanks Denise! I am especially glad to hear that because I designed it myself!
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    Sorry Artie,...I am asking, what is a typical subject distance for a medium sized bird (Cardinal). For example, with my 400MM and my 1.6 40d crop factor I need to be within 15/22 feet of my subject to get a decent image not requiring a crop of 30% or larger crop. Just trying to get a feel for distance with this kind of glass , make sense.

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    Amazing shot, great subject with perfect feathers and bill, beautifull eyem colors, and light, I love the touches of blue in the feathers and the white details in the head, just a preety beautifull bird to me.
    Big congratulations Artie!

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    Brian Barcelos
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    I don't think you could of taken a better picture in a studio!! Love the colors in it's gross wrinkly neck:D! By the way, thanks for taking the time out of your W.A. movie to speak to me the other day, it was a pleasure. Oh and Digital Basics is a must have, especially for any one just starting on PS like me. Thank You.
    Brian

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    Fantastic details Artie. Excellent job.

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    Excellent detail,sharpness and super colours well captured
    Chris Kotze

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    Brilliant detail and sharpness, and I like the light on the plumage showing up the colours nicely. Is this a youngster?

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    I don┤t consider this one a ugly species and, in fact, this image is a good proof of how much beautiful they are. Just look at those eyes, the feathers, the color of the bill and the red skin (I have to say that, by now, I have never found a bird that looks ugly to me :p)
    This portrait is outstanding, and the BG is to die for. I think that one of the strongest points in this image, is the balance between green and red (both colors compliments extremelly well to each other) and, of course, composition, sharpness, TERRIFIC eye contact, shooting angle, light angle and intensity, but... man, that green BG rocks!
    Fantastic image Artie :)

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    killer eye contact/pose and beautiful bg`s color!!!

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    super portrait Artie! wow - 800mm x 1.4 x 1.3 = 1456mm, would love glass of that magnitude one day... :)
    the plumage does have nice colours, and details are pin sharp. not an ugly bird at all. you've got me curious now so I'll have to go to your site and see what a BLUBB is :D
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Cashdollar View Post
    Sorry Artie,...I am asking, what is a typical subject distance for a medium sized bird (Cardinal). For example, with my 400MM and my 1.6 40d crop factor I need to be within 15/22 feet of my subject to get a decent image not requiring a crop of 30% or larger crop. Just trying to get a feel for distance with this kind of glass , make sense.
    I cannot give a definitve answer. For a vertical cardinal, I can probably fill 75% of the frame (the largest that I prefer to go) at about 25+ or so feet with the 800 alone and the Mark III (1.3 crop factor).

    When you go from one telephoto to another with a different focal length it takes a while to get the distances down right, i.e., when to stop when you are approaching a subject. Remember: the size of the subject in the frame is a factor of the square of the focal length. So going from a 500 (5 squared = 25) to an 800 (8 squared is 64), the bird will be 2.56 times larger in the frame (64/25). Often times I walk up to a bird with the 800 intending to create an image of the whole bird and find that I have to back way up... Hope that that helps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morkel Erasmus View Post
    super portrait Artie! wow - 800mm x 1.4 x 1.3 = 1456mm, would love glass of that magnitude one day... :)
    the plumage does have nice colours, and details are pin sharp. not an ugly bird at all. you've got me curious now so I'll have to go to your site and see what a BLUBB is :D
    Thanks Mork. BLUBB = Big Lens Ultimate BeanBag: https://store.birdsasart.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=12

    BTW, the lens does not take the picture :) :D :) And making them sharp at 28X is not as easy as it seems....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan AragonÚs View Post
    I don┤t consider this one a ugly species and, in fact, this image is a good proof of how much beautiful they are. Just look at those eyes, the feathers, the color of the bill and the red skin (I have to say that, by now, I have never found a bird that looks ugly to me :p) This portrait is outstanding, and the BG is to die for. I think that one of the strongest points in this image, is the balance between green and red (both colors compliments extremelly well to each other) and, of course, composition, sharpness, TERRIFIC eye contact, shooting angle, light angle and intensity, but... man, that green BG rocks! Fantastic image Artie :)
    Thanks on all counts Juan. I think that they are beautiful too. The BKGR was some marsh vegetation about two to three feet behind the bird.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Bowie View Post
    Brilliant detail and sharpness, and I like the light on the plumage showing up the colours nicely. Is this a youngster?
    This is an adult in rather nice plumage (with the purple hues on the back of the head). The young ones have much darker heads without much red at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Barcelos View Post
    I don't think you could of taken a better picture in a studio!! Love the colors in it's gross wrinkly neck:D! By the way, thanks for taking the time out of your W.A. movie to speak to me the other day, it was a pleasure. Oh and Digital Basics is a must have, especially for any one just starting on PS like me. Thank You. Brian
    Thanks for your kind words and YAW. The Woody Allen movie was Mighty Aphrodite and was pretty good. I was able to enjoy it despite his sordid actions (in his personal life).
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    Artie,

    Yes, it helps. This is one of the main reasons I want to purchase 500MM (Its bigger)!!, to complement my 400MM (4s=8) (5s=25) (5/4) =25% increase. I guess as a general rule I will try and fill at least 30% of the frame to avoid a big-crop. Interesting, with a 1.4 TC applied to the 500 it really takes off - (4s=8) (7s=49) (7/4) =75% increase,... intuitive, 700 is almost twice 400 (400 X 1.75=700). Not to mention auto focus works as well on most Canon bodies.

    No need to respond - just closing out the matter.
    Last edited by Jeff Cashdollar; 06-20-2009 at 10:39 AM.

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    Lifetime Member Doug Brown's Avatar
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    It's hard to heap praise on a TV photo, but I sure do like this one! Well done Artie!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Cashdollar View Post
    This is one of the main reasons I want to purchase 500MM (Its bigger)!!, to complement my 400MM (4s=8) (5s=25) (5/4) =25% increase. I guess as a general rule I will try and fill at least 30% of the frame to avoid a big-crop. Interesting, with a 1.4 TC applied to the 500 it really takes off - (4s=8) (7s=49) (7/4) =75% increase,... intuitive, 700 is almost twice 400 (400 X 1.75=700). Not to mention auto focus works as well on most Canon bodies.
    Jeff,
    You've got a couple math errors error here.
    4 squared is 16, so going from 400mm to 500mm will yield a 56% increase (25/16=1.56)
    in the area taken up in the frame by your subject. Going from 400mm to 700mm will give you
    a 3x increase in subject area. Like Artie said, subject size increases with square of the focal length,
    so doubling the focal length gives you a 4x increase in the area taken up by your subject in the frame.
    Also, note that when increasing focal length, you also decrease the
    field of view, better isolating the subject with less of the surrounding background showing in the frame.
    For example, you can get the same subject size with a 300mm at 15 feet that you get with a 600mm at
    30 feet, but the image created with the 600mm will show a smaller portion of the background, possibly
    eliminating background distractions that may appear in the 300mm image. Also, the longer focal length
    will cause the area outside your depth of field to blur faster so even though you have the same DOF,
    the background may look very different. Just wanted to point out that increasing focal length does
    more than just increase subject size at a given distance.



    Artie,
    Perfect portrait, but I'll agree with your "ugly as sin" description.
    Any theory as to why TV images are big sellers, i.e. who uses them?
    Did you ever make it to the water lilies .. would love to see what you
    come up with!

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    Hey Mike,

    Good stuff above. I do believe that this, "Also, the longer focal length will cause the area outside your depth of field to blur faster so even though you have the same DOF" may be incorrect. If the subject is the same sizein the frame, as it would seem to be in your example, then d-o-f is the same at given aperture with any lens (of any focal length). Of course, the d-o-f may look different because of the different anlges of view.

    I actually think that the vultures can be handsome, even beautiful as this one is. Perhaps I sell a bunch of TVs because nobody else bothers photographing them....

    I will post one water lily ASAP abd thanks again for your help.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brown View Post
    It's hard to heap praise on a TV ...
    Well, I have to paraphrase Doug :p

    But, somebody has to photo them and make them look good :D:D

    And I thought TV was uglier than that :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Hey Mike,
    Good stuff above. I do believe that this, "Also, the longer focal length will cause the area outside your depth of field to blur faster so even though you have the same DOF" may be incorrect. If the subject is the same sizein the frame, as it would seem to be in your example, then d-o-f is the same at given aperture with any lens (of any focal length). Of course, the d-o-f may look different because of the different anlges of view.
    The key phrase in my statement was "the area OUTSIDE your depth of field".
    Yes, at a given f/stop setting, 300mm at 15 feet will have the exact same DOF as 600mm at 30 feet.
    However, that says nothing about how quickly the degree of blur increases in areas OUTSIDE of the DOF.
    With longer focal lengths, the areas BEHIND the DOF, will become more out of focus faster,
    increasing the chances of getting a classic Birds as Art "wash of color" background.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Milicia View Post
    The key phrase in my statement was "the area OUTSIDE your depth of field".
    Yes, at a given f/stop setting, 300mm at 15 feet will have the exact same DOF as 600mm at 30 feet.
    However, that says nothing about how quickly the degree of blur increases in areas OUTSIDE of the DOF.
    With longer focal lengths, the areas BEHIND the DOF, will become more out of focus faster,
    increasing the chances of getting a classic Birds as Art "wash of color" background.
    Hey Mike, I understand exactly what you are saying but.... With a constant subject size, I think but do not know for sure, that the blur in front of and behind the "acceptably sharp parts of an image (whatever that means), would be the same. But that is what I think not what I know so I am open to what others have to say or any proof or examples that you might have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brown View Post
    It's hard to heap praise on a TV photo, but I sure do like this one! Well done Artie!
    Why hard" A good picture is a good picture.... :) :D :)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Hey Mike, I understand exactly what you are saying but.... With a constant subject size, I think but do not know for sure, that the blur in front of and behind the "acceptably sharp parts of an image (whatever that means), would be the same. But that is what I think not what I know so I am open to what others have to say or any proof or examples that you might have.
    Hi Artie,
    I first learned of this phenomenon a few years ago at a Rod Planck seminar.
    To be more specific, it applies to areas well behind the DOF.
    It does not apply to the foreground and does not apply to areas immediately behind the DOF.
    Unfortunately, creating some images to demonstrate this effect is still on my "to do" list.
    In the meantime, though, I can point you to this article which describes the effect
    and does include an image example :

    http://www.bobatkins.com/photography...ound_blur.html

    As explained in the referenced article, the "fuzzier" distant background comes from the fact that that a longer
    lens at the same f/stop setting as a shorter lens will use a larger physical aperture opening at
    time of capture. It is technically this larger physical opening which creates the effect rather than
    the focal length itself but since for a given f/stop setting, the physical opening size increases with
    focal length, you can state it either way.

    I'd also be interested to hear what others have to say about this.

    P.S.
    Sorry for getting into this technical sidetrack in your image critique thread.

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    BPN Viewer Jeff Cashdollar's Avatar
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    Mike.

    Correct, thanks for the peer review. Doubling the FL increases subject size by a factor of four, that is correct when you consider there is a 50% increase with a 100MM increase (500M = .56 larger)

    I was thinking one thing and doing another. I did the math wrong and feel bad, usually thorough about this stuff. I will blame my wife, she is hurrying me to a wedding.

    Another fun math fact while we are at it- the focal length divided by .50 produces the magnification power. Hence 400 /.50 = 8 (8 power binoculars) and 500/.50= (10 power) 10/8 = 25%. I know the 25% fit in there some where.
    Last edited by Jeff Cashdollar; 06-20-2009 at 08:23 PM.

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    Great image in all respects, but I can't imagine hanging a picture of one on my wall. Don't quite see what is so appealing about them. Maybe because they are so unusual. Have you ever stopped to figure it out Artie??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Milicia View Post
    Hi Artie, n the meantime, though, I can point you to this article which describes the effect and does include an image example:
    http://www.bobatkins.com/photography...ound_blur.html

    As explained in the referenced article, the "fuzzier" distant background comes from the fact that that a longer
    lens at the same f/stop setting as a shorter lens will use a larger physical aperture opening at
    time of capture. It is technically this larger physical opening which creates the effect rather than
    the focal length itself but since for a given f/stop setting, the physical opening size increases with
    focal length, you can state it either way. I'd also be interested to hear what others have to say about this.

    P.S.
    Sorry for getting into this technical sidetrack in your image critique thread.
    Hey Mike, No problema with the technical info. I think that I understand now. To be honest, even in the sample images the differences are not at all obvious to me as in the wider view you are seeing more distracting stuff and it is difficult to judge the degree of fuzziness.

    Heck, just another reason to love the 800.

    While I will put this in the "Nice to Know" and "Glad That I Learned That" folders, I believe that it is perfect example of folks spending much too much time on fairly worthless info that will not make them better photographers. I do not think that I will be downloading Bob's calculator gizmo any time soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    While I will put this in the "Nice to Know" and "Glad That I Learned That" folders, I believe that it is perfect example of folks spending much too much time on fairly worthless info that will not make them better photographers. I do not think that I will be downloading Bob's calculator gizmo any time soon
    Agree this has nothing to do with being a better photographer and I'll pass on the calculator as well
    (and not just because it only works on Windows ;)). The only value I see in this knowledge is it's
    another reason why just getting closer to your subject with a shorter lens is not a substitute for
    a supertelephoto. I've heard individuals claim that they had no need to make the investment in a supertelephoto
    lens because they can just get closer to the subjects. It's an unfortunate fact (financially speaking) that for
    certain styles of bird photography, a supertelephoto lens is an invaluable and irreplaceable tool, and it's not just
    about proximity to the subject. Then again, I take a look at images like this one :

    http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...ad.php?t=39110

    and wonder why I'm lugging around my 8 1/2 pound 500mm. :)






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    Yup, that fish eye image is outstanding. I would love to see a comparison with a bird as the subject, same size in the frame, same aperture, with the 500 and the 800... I do not think that there would be a whole lot of difference. Why? Four times fuzzier than very, very fuzzy is hard to distinguish from very, very fuzzy!
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    Whoa Artie, this is one handsome bird that only bird photographers would love! :D Killer execution. When you said to Daniel Cadieux it is a Florida bird did you mean to rub in the fact how spoilt you Florida dweelers are? ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ┴kos Lumnitzer View Post
    Whoa Artie, this is one handsome bird that only bird photographers would love! :D Killer execution. When you said to Daniel Cadieux it is a Florida bird did you mean to rub in the fact how spoilt you Florida dweelers are? ;)

    What is a dweeler??? Is that an Australian term???
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    What is a dweeler??? Is that an Australian term???
    Sorry Maestro, I typed too fast. I meant DWELLER. You bunch of spoilt sods in Florida is what I am saying with your perfect light and friendly birds.

    Now come down under and shoot some REAL birds. :D :cool:

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    What this Florida dweeler meant is that those tame Florida birds make great subjects as long as you are extremly skilled at getting a large SUV in postion, close and right on sun angle, without scaring them away... :) :D :)
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

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