How to get excellent moon shots?

[Bob Lund]

D200, D3, 300mm f/2.8, 1.7 TC & 2.0 TC. Also have 200mm Micro f/4

BNP Friends - I would love suggestions on the methods used to get EXCELLENT moon photographs. I've hacked away with all kinds of exposure and focus settings, including manual, but am never happy with the results. You might say I'm still in the dark :-)

I live in Kitsap County Washington, across the Puget Sound from Seattle. We are having nightime temperatures in the 20's, and the nightime sky appears crystal clear to my eye. I have removed the screen from a West facing window, and it's the perfect place for moon photos.

Help appreciated - Bob

[Johnny Bravo]

Hey Bob,

If you're shooting through a window, that's a big mistake.

Recipe for a moon/sky shot:
Check out the online websites that show 'seeing' in your area. Google it. If the stars a twinkling, the imaging will be poor. (they twinkle due to temperature diffs in the upper atmosphere causing light to refract all over the place--which makes for fuzzy imaging)
Don't shoot through a window.
Give your lens time to get temperature stable. Set it up outside, and let it sit for 20 minutes so it's the same termparture as the air.

Hope this helps,
John

[Axel Hildebrandt]

A night with little haze is important. You should be outside because of heat waves. You could try manual mode, start at 1/100s, f/8 and ISO 100 and see if you need to adjust the shutter speed. Good luck!

[John Harper]

Hi Bob

I have taken some shots with a 400mm +1.4TC at ISO 400 assuming you are taking a full moon i would set F11 and use the recpirical shutter speed of your ISO. So if you are using ISO 400 use 1/400th ISO 200 use 1/200th

At those sort of speeds you can probably get away with a handheld shot. I post below a shot taken this way to see if the sort of thing you are after.

John

EOS1DMKIIN
EF400mm F5.6 + 1.4TC
ISO 400
1/400 @ F11

[Jim Poor]

I think the OP didn't intend for folks to think that he is shooting through a window as in through the glass. I think he meant that the window is open and the screen removed so that he is shooting out of the window.

The only thing that comes to mind for me at the moment that hasn't been mentioned already, is watch for light pollution from inside the room too.

[Bob Lund]

Johnny Bravo, Axel, John & Jim - Thank you all for your help!

This mornings results were better than past attempts. I took 16 images then wimped out because it's 24 degrees on my porch :-) And yes, I was shooting through an open window in my LR, but carpeting was allowing shake in my setup.

I'm still not seeing quite the lightness and detail John is showing in his example (nice image), and need to work the variables, and I will, using all your suggestions.

I have fallen into the 'telephoto trap' in the past, expecting too much from my setup. Nothing beats getting as close as you can, but I'm too old to hope for that improvement with moon images :)

Model: NIKON D3
FocalLength: 600.0mm (300mm 2.8 + 2.0 TC)
FocalLength35efl: 600.0mm (35mm equivalent: 600.0mm)
ISO: 200
ExposureTime: 1/500"
Aperture: F11.0
MaxAperture: F5.7
ExposureBiasValue: 0
ExposureProgram: Manual
MeteringMode: Multi-segment
Flash: No Flash
WhiteBalance: Auto

[Axel Hildebrandt]

It looks a bit underexposed, I would try a slower shutter speed.

[Chris Ober]

Yup, could use more exposure. Try the same setup but with 1/200". 1/ISO @ f/11 for a full moon for a starting point and vary depending on how low on the horizon it is or how much crud is in the air.

[Robert Amoruso]

Bob,

Your using a Nikon D3 and it has excellent noise (i.e. lack of it) at high ISO. Set the ISO to 800 and add, starting at 1 stop, more light until you get the whites into the right of the histogram.

WIth my Canon 1D Mark III I use at least ISO 800 and have gotten sharp images with stacked (2x + 1.4X converters). Long lens technique is critical here.

[Phil Colla]

Bob,

I'll share what I have been able to get from my backyard. The following image was shot with the following params: Canon 1DsII / 500mm w/ 2x teleconverter (effective 1000mm on full frame sensor) / 1/20th @ f/22 / ISO 200. I locked down the gimbel head, locked up the mirror, used 10 second timer to ensure that vibrations were totally damped out before the shutter tripped, and I sharpened it carefully in the raw converter. Still, there is a limit to the detail one can achieve even with best glass shooting something so far away through so much atmosphere. The montage below it was shot with similar params during the blood red moon phase of a total eclipse -- since it is a pano I have left it small -- can click it to see it a little larger.

[D. Robert Franz]

One issue that has not been mentioned is by photographing out and open window from a wam house is you can get heat waves escaping the.house That can cause you sharpness problems. You can also have this problem shooting out of a warm vehicle in cold conditions. I've seen this to be a real problem in Churchhill on the tundra buggies.

[Phil Colla]

Dale is correct, you must get the camera out into the cold air and give it time to equilize in temp.

Bob, your choice of aperture is a good one, stopping down 1-2 stops when using a teleconverter improves sharpness. You may try focusing manually (using the focus points for assistance) and repeating the exposure several times, seeing if one of them produces a sharper image. Your image appears underexposed by a stop at least. Suggest that you increase exposure to get the histogram more to the right, so that you are clipping (or nearly clipping) the very brightest of your highlights. The moon is lit hard by the sun and the highlights should be rendered quite bright. Your D3 will allow you to use a much higher ISO than I used (200), so I suggest you try a few at 1000 or 1600. If they are exposed properly (so that you don't need to bring them up in the raw conversion) your images should show little or no noise. Also, keep in mind that increasing exposure by using a lower shutter speed may put you at risk for motion blur -- the moon is travelling pretty darn fast and it will blur if the shutter speed is sufficiently slow. Use that ISO capability of your camera!

[George DeCamp]

Just a quick addition:I usually start at sunny 16 as my starting point.

[Steve Foss]

After moving down this thread, I wondered when someone would finally mention a key consideration.

Robert is on the right track here. Heat wave distortion from warmth escaping through windows is quite thin, however, so if you are in a car or a building shooting through a window opening, if you can get your lens far enough out of the opening you'll eliminate that worry.

Still, it's best to get the whole kit outside. Twenty-degree temps aren't going to compromise any of the current DSLR bodies. I shoot at temps quite a bit colder than that with no ill gear effects.

[James Shadle]

Spot meter the brightest area +1/3 stop works for me.

[Romy Ocon]

Hi Bob,

I also take lunar potshots with my birding lenses, and for a full moon, a Moonie 11 exposure (f/11, ISO 100, 1/100-1/125 sec) works great for me. I normally choose an aperture setting which corresponds to the sweet IQ spot of my combo, an ISO of 200 for optimum DR and minimum noise, then adjust the shutter speed to get a Moonie 11 exposure.

Here's a full moon with a Moonie 11 exposure, taken with a 40D + Sigmonster + Canon 2x TC, 1374 mm, f/18, ISO 200:
http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone/ima...67854/original


For a half-moon, I use exposure values faster by 1 to 1-1/3 stop over Moonie 11. Here's a half-moon with the 40D + Sigmonster + Canon 2x TC, 1600 mm, f/18, 1/40 sec, ISO 250:
http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone/ima...12593/original


Regards,

Romy

Johnny Bravo, Axel, John & Jim - Thank you all for your help!

This mornings results were better than past attempts. I took 16 images then wimped out because it's 24 degrees on my porch :-) And yes, I was shooting through an open window in my LR, but carpeting was allowing shake in my setup.

I'm still not seeing quite the lightness and detail John is showing in his example (nice image), and need to work the variables, and I will, using all your suggestions.

I have fallen into the 'telephoto trap' in the past, expecting too much from my setup. Nothing beats getting as close as you can, but I'm too old to hope for that improvement with moon images :)

Model: NIKON D3
FocalLength: 600.0mm (300mm 2.8 + 2.0 TC)
FocalLength35efl: 600.0mm (35mm equivalent: 600.0mm)
ISO: 200
ExposureTime: 1/500"
Aperture: F11.0
MaxAperture: F5.7
ExposureBiasValue: 0
ExposureProgram: Manual
MeteringMode: Multi-segment
Flash: No Flash
WhiteBalance: Auto

[Bob Lund]

Thank again to you all for your varied advice. I'll try all the suggestions, Bob

[Bob Lund]

Romy - Incredible photographs I'll aspire to :-) Thanks, Bob

[Jose Suro]

Hi Bob,

I do a considerable amount of astrophotography and have shot the Moon many times. Here's a short summary of my experiences:

Camera lenses are not as good as telescopes because of their large number of glass elements and aperture iris. These things cause diffraction and the Moon has a lot of small detail that suffers the most from this. Even moderately priced (`$800.00) small telescopes outperform lenses in the $5k range. Here's an image with a 76mm aperture telescope:

http://www.josesuro.com/gallery/1168...h3JXK/Original

That said, there is no substitute for large apertures - meaning the diameter of the objective (lens or mirror). Why? Because when it comes to optics, the larger the diameter of the objective, the less the diffraction and the more detail the instrument can capture (resolution). Astronomical detail is measured in arc-seconds ( 1/60th of 1/60th of a degree). The formula for this is relatively simple and was derived empirically by Dawes (The Dawes Limit) = 11.5/Aperture in centimeters. So, an instrument with a front objective of 76mm will have a "theoretical" resolution of 1.51 arc-seconds, while an 11-inch telescope will do .41 arc-seconds. All of this can be translated to lines/mm for photographic purposes, however camera lenses rarely resolve more than 60-80 limes/mm because of the aforementioned diffraction, while telescopes go much higher. Here is an image with an 11-inch telescope and a D70:

http://www.josesuro.com/gallery/1168...EHRVV/Original

I put quotes around "theoretical" in the last paragraph because those limits are rarely achieved because of what astronomers call "seeing" - atmospheric turbulence. The short of this is: Try to shoot when the Moon is near the zenith - less atmosphere in the way. And check these guys:

http://www.cleardarksky.com/csk/

...and try to shoot in optimal conditions.

The last thing is Focus - the MOST important part of the photographic process. AF just doesn't cut it for astrophotography - it is not precise enough. Focus precision for astrophotography is measured in hundreths of a millimeter. Acceptable focus for 35mm work is around .020mm. Best focus is around .010mm. On say a Nikon 180mm lens, with which I have some astrophoto experience, this equates to about less than 1/250th of a turn on the focus ring. I actually use a computer to focus, it is that critical. When focusing by eye the process usually takes me more than 5-minutes for the Moon. Here's a shot with the Nikon 180mm at F5.6:

http://www.josesuro.com/gallery/1138...NMtAe/Original


Hopes this helps,

Best,

Jose

[Bob Lund]

Jose - Thank you for your great information. I have a vintage Nikon 500mm Reflex lens (like new) that I'm told could be good for a low level of astrophotography. I haven't tried it with my D3, but will when we get a clear night which are few and far between here in Washington State during the winter season:-) Best, Bob

[David Smith]

Bob:

I have always had very good sucess with "Moon" shots by using the "Sunny f/16" rule, or equivelant exposure, as the moon is nothing but reflected sunlight. I will sometimes bracket my exposure, but most of the time "Sunny f/16" works..

JMHO

Dave

[Mark Fuller]

just altered your levels a bit and it is looking brighter. Its just missing those nice craters and shadows shown in the earlier photo by JH

[ChrisRoss]

Bob,

I've been an amatuer astronomer for a number of years, Moon photos with a telephoto should be quite straight forward. At full moon the light is full daylight, so sunny 16 is appropriate for exposure, which will render the moon in it's actual colour, which is not too far off a grey card, to get it white you might want to open up a stop. It is also quite a low contrast object, particularly at full moon which is equivalent to noon on earth, so no shadows to speak of. You'll want to bump the contrast with an "s" curve adjustments after setting your black and white points in levels

Focal length is everything for detail, with a 1.5x crop camera and the 300 with 2x you've got 900mm eq FL, full frame on the moon is about 2000mm. I agree to not shoot out your window, too much potential for thermal effects. Outside, exposures of 1/200 @ f11 or 1/400@ f8 with ISO 200 will take care of all but the worst seeing (unsteady atmosphere ) problems. Your 300mm f2.8 should be close to critically sharp by one stop down with the 2x on

Focusing is important, but probably no more so than any terrestrial subject, manual may be better, a focusing magnifier will help or you could bracket focus and review at max zoom on your LCD.

Note that once away from full moon the exposure changes and detail near the day/night line terminator improves due to longer shadows and side lighting. Don't restrict yourself to full moon.

Here is a website that might help. Hope this helps and good luck.

http://www.adidap.com/2006/09/18/tip...exposure-guide