White Throuted Kingfisher

[Neil Williams]

Shot in Lake Gardens Kuala Lumpur
Nikon D800e 600mm f4e
ISO200
F5.6
1/160

[arash_hazeghi]

Welcome to the avian critique forum Niel!

You picked a handsome specie for your first post. I like the dynamic pose and the wing spread, good flight angle too. Your ISO was way too low (I don't recall having ever shot a bird in flight at ISO's below 400). The low ISO resulted in the very slow shutter speed and thus the motion blur. You got lucky the head and the topside came out as sharp as they did, at least in this presentation, but generally for a shot like this something like 1/1600 sec at ISO 2000 will increase your chances of capturing the bird sharp while it will also give you a bit of wing blur which is a bit on the excessive side here.

The BG is somewhat distracting, especially the bright patches and the thick OOF bamboo(?) which is often a common issue shooting in a dense canopy

TFS and looking forward to more

[Neil Williams]

I've not had a lot of success using ISO over 400 plus I wanted the blurred wings. I agree about the BG but sometimes it's just impossible to pick that especially when shooting BIF.
Thanks for the feedback

[arash_hazeghi]

I've not had a lot of success using ISO over 400 plus I wanted the blurred wings. I agree about the BG but sometimes it's just impossible to pick that especially when shooting BIF.
Thanks for the feedback

what do you mean you have not had a lot of success? what was the problem?

[Neil Williams]

what do you mean you have not had a lot of success? what was the problem?

Excessive noise when using the D800e. I have used my D4s at ISO1600 but the files are that small (only 16MP) that after cropping especially with small birds the images are no longer usable (usable I mean for printing) That's why I use my D800e at max ISO400 to get files that can hopefully be printed on A2 paper

[arash_hazeghi]

Excessive noise when using the D800e. I have used my D4s at ISO1600 but the files are that small (only 16MP) that after cropping especially with small birds the images are no longer usable (usable I mean for printing) That's why I use my D800e at max ISO400 to get files that can hopefully be printed on A2 paper

The D800e can easily handle ISO 1600 even for making poster-size prints 48" inches wide, if you search this forum you will find many excellent examples.

The RAW processing matters more than the camera when it comes to high ISO images I suggest you check ETL and Digital processing forum for more material specific to Nikon. With optimal processing you should have no problem making a clean detailed image even at the high ISO.

good luck

[Neil Williams]

I suggest you check ETL and Digital processing forum

Do you have a link, I would be interested to see what they have.......I did try Google but it took me to the Air Bus A320 Thanks

[arash_hazeghi]

Do you have a link, I would be interested to see what they have.......I did try Google but it took me to the Air Bus A320 Thanks

I'll ask Morkel Erasmus, wildlife moderator who is one of the best Nikon shooters to point you in the right direction re. processing NEF files.

best

[Stu Bowie]

Hi Neil, a big welcome to BPN and hope you enjoy the ride. I really like the curved forward wing position, and I do like the blues on this KF. Yes going for a higher ISO would have had a sharper image, and I believe your camera can go much higher. The BG is a tad busy, but we have to take where they perch.

[Daniel Cadieux]

I kinda like the effect you got with the motion blur on the wings in this case, but I agree upping the ISO would be best for bird photography in general (even static subjects). If I can do it on the 7D you can do it with your gear! Apart from the bright whites below I like the background and habitat depicted.

[Neil Williams]

I'll ask Morkel Erasmus, wildlife moderator who is one of the best Nikon shooters to point you in the right direction re. processing NEF files.

best

Arash
Did you manage to talk with Morkel?

[dankearl]

You should easily be able to shoot at iso1000 with hardly any NR with a D800e.
I get useable files at iso6400 with the D800 or D610.
Are you shooting in Manual? You should be..
If you shoot manual and you just expose in the center (you don't even need to go to the right), you should get nice files.
I never use in camera NR and only use NR on the background even at 6400.
I use Topaz noise reduction or NX2 noise reduction.
You should really practice some before you do an African trip as you will be shooting in low light.

[arash_hazeghi]

Arash
Did you manage to talk with Morkel?

I did message him, he is is in a different time zone, I am sure he will respond to you when he gets a chance.


When I had Nikon gear between 2007 and 2009 (D3S + 500VR) I used Nikon Capture NX2 for my RAW conversion, I was constantly shooting low light at ISO 3200 with no issues. Manufacture proprietary RAW converter usually provides a much better output when dealing with high ISO files than a generic RAW converter such as Adobe LR and the such which can greatly exaggerate noise/grain in the high ISO RAW files. While I haven't shot with newer Nikon gear, I have heard and seen nothing but excellent results from newer Nikon cameras such as the D800/D4. Their low end models aren't that great but the pro/high-end models are always great just like Canon.

These are a few examples from D3S at ISO 4000 and 3200, and yes you can print them very large too. I would be surprised if the D800 was capable of any less.

[arash_hazeghi]

You should easily be able to shoot at iso1000 with hardly any NR with a D800e.
I get useable files at iso6400 with the D800 or D610.
Are you shooting in Manual? You should be..
If you shoot manual and you just expose in the center (you don't even need to go to the right), you should get nice files.
I never use in camera NR and only use NR on the background even at 6400.
I use Topaz noise reduction or NX2 noise reduction.
You should really practice some before you do an African trip as you will be shooting in low light.

Thanks Dan, maybe you can also post some of your examples with D800 here. it's a good reference thread.

[Neil Williams]

You should easily be able to shoot at iso1000 with hardly any NR with a D800e.
I get useable files at iso6400 with the D800 or D610.
Are you shooting in Manual? You should be..
If you shoot manual and you just expose in the center (you don't even need to go to the right), you should get nice files.
I never use in camera NR and only use NR on the background even at 6400.
I use Topaz noise reduction or NX2 noise reduction.
You should really practice some before you do an African trip as you will be shooting in low light.

Dan
I am using Nik software Define to remove any noise that I have, and also only try and use it on the background. I have found that especially when shooting small birds any noise reduction on the birds small feathers completely wipes out the feather detail...............Like many have already said I guess I need to practice my PP skills some more...............any tips or advice on that matter would be much appreciated.

[Neil Williams]

I did message him, he is is in a different time zone, I am sure he will respond to you when he gets a chance.

Thanks Arash.
I am currently sat on an oil rig in Nigeria and wont be home for 3 weeks but I will check out these other NR programs on some files that I think I have with me

[Daniel Cadieux]

Dan
I am using Nik software Define to remove any noise that I have, and also only try and use it on the background. I have found that especially when shooting small birds any noise reduction on the birds small feathers completely wipes out the feather detail...............Like many have already said I guess I need to practice my PP skills some more...............any tips or advice on that matter would be much appreciated.

Generally you do not need to apply NR to the feathers or any other fine detail...at least not up until ISO1600 or over (I use A Canon "prosumer" body), and even then it must be done in small dose. NR applied to the BG only should suffice most of the time.

[dankearl]

Neil,
Here is a RAW image shot with a D610 with a 300mmm lens & 2x tc.
This is the Full Frame only downsized for the web and used default sharpening and nothing else.
Your files should look like this if exposed right in the middle which this was. That is how I shoot birds, I do not expose to the
right even at high iso because I never want to blow whites so I try to expose right in the middle at high iso.

1/1000, f5.6, iso6400

This was shot with the D610 which is about the same as the D800 (I have and use both)
You can see that just a small amount of NR is actually required on the BG only.
For your info, this is the NEF camera file converted in ACR to a TIFF, exported NX2 which is where
I downsize for the web. The same as PS, just an old habit I still use for the web only.
That is the only processing here at all. The rest is up to the photographer.....

610_7176bp3.jpg

[Neil Williams]

^^^^^^ I guess I am doing something wrong then Dan. Anyway when I get home in the middle of December I will have another go and see how I get on

[Morkel Erasmus]

Hi Neil. Finally got round to reading this thread (thanks Arash for the head's up).

I agree with much of what's been said about pushing your Nikon cameras higher in the ISO department. I actually only use LR and PS for processing (not using NX) and I am happy to push my D3s and my D800 to ISO-3200 or 6400 regularly. I don't take the D800 higher than that but will push D3s to 12,800 as well without worrying too much about how noisy the file could come out. One of my friends and a well-known wildlife photographer in South Africa has had an image shot at ISO-51000 chosen for a commercial magazine cover.

The important thing with high ISO shooting is to preserve the highlights while exposing to the right as far as possible. Recovering from shadows increases noise, but Nikon's sensors are notorious for being better at shadow recovery than excessive highlight recovery (bear that in mind). As far as noise reduction, I do very little in the LR / Adobe RAW module - I will hardly ever take the noise slider past 10, although I can take the colour noise one a tad higher without adverse effects on image quality. I then take the image into PS and make sure I make a separate subject layer which I can work on to maximise detail and sharpness of the in-focus areas/subject, and do normal noise reduction (PS, not 3rd party apps) on the background.

As far as your original image posted on this thread is concerned I don't mind the amount of wing blur and am pleased with the sharpness you achieved on the head. Each to his own in terms of preference when it comes to motion blur - a very subjective topic for photographers.

[Neil Williams]

Good morning Morkel
Thanks for the reply and advise on noise reduction................where I think I have been messing up is by letting say Dfine (Nik Software) noise reduction do the whole picture and not just the background like everyone is recommending, so I have been avoiding noise like the plague as when I run the noise reduction software over the bird it becomes very soft.
Anyway thank you to everyone for pointing this out to me.
I am heading to Tanzania in January for a 9 day safari so really excited about that, I will try your recommendations out before I go so that I can get comfortable with it.
Thanks again

Neil