LR and DPP

[Miguel Palaviccini]

No, not LR vs DPP. I'm trying to find an answer that will allow me to use both LR and DPP in the same workflow.

I think that LR is unmatched in its cataloging feature. I'm able to apply Species Name keywords and Geotag images, which are two very important features for me. It allows me to quickly find all images of any species and/or find all images taken at a specific location. Pretty neat and very useful.

From reading quite a bit, DPP is the way to go for processing, although I haven't really had any problems with LR. The ideal for me would be to do the following (integrate both DPP and LR into my workflow):

- Import into LR, add keywords and geotag all images.

- Rate and Delete in LR. Tagged images would be the ones that I would then process.

- Process. Currently, I am processing in LR for basic raw changes and then taking it into PS as a tiff file. The ideal would be to take the RAW image from LR to DPP and process there. Then bring it back into LR as a tiff (so that everything is cataloged), and then export to PS.

It's the Processing step that I am trying to figure out. I tried to export the RAW CR2 file out from LR into DPP, but the only option is to export a TIFF. That's no good. Now, if I open the CR2 separately in DPP and save it as a TIFF in the same folder, is there a way to have LR automatically recognize the tiff (I believe there is). A bigger question ... will working on the CR2 file in DPP then mess up any attributes that I have set up in LR on that RAW file (say geotagging, keywording, rating, etc)?

Has anyone run into this before?

Miguel

[Diane Miller]

You'll need to open the raw file directly in DPP. Just navigate it to the folder. Then save it as a TIFF (in the same folder is the most direct workflow for me). Then back in LR I have to Sync that folder -- LR doesn't know the TIFF was added. Then sort the filmstrip by date taken and you'll have the DPP conversion next to the LR adjusted file, for easy comparison. Zoom into both at 1:1 for a good look for any significant differences.

Minor point: when you open a raw file from LR into PS, you're not taking it into PS as a TIFF file. It doesn't become a rasterized file (TIFF, .psd or JPEG) until you save it in PS. Note the file name at the top of the image remains the raw file name until you save it.

[arash_hazeghi]

Hi Miguel, you cannot export a RAW file.

I would highly recommend you don't do this and stick to one software as the chances of corrupting the data is high since RAW files are being accessed by two programs at the same time. Any tag that you created by LR will unreadable by DPP and vice versa.

I would suggest trying the new collection feature in DPP 4 (have you tried it?)

I have created collections by species name, e.g. white-tailed kite so when I click on it all the kite images show up, sorted by rating, location or even things such as ISO and lens if I want.

best

[Miguel Palaviccini]

Thanks for the tips guys.

I played around with makign changes and syncing in LR and seeing how it affected DPP. I'm not sure where the changes are saved, but like Arash mentioned neither program recognizes the other's changes.

The ideal would be to stick to one program, so I'll see if I can adjust to DPP a bit.

[Diane Miller]

Nothing in LR, including making changes to a raw file, will affect DPP or its results. You wouldn't want them to. They are independent.

What I'm saying is that you can simply compare the results of both conversions side by side in LR if you save the DPP conversion as a TIFF file and then sync it back into LR, which catalogs it so you can see it. That makes no more changes to the file than the card catalog in a library makes to the corresponding book. The Library module of LR just displays files, as long as they have been imported (cataloged), much as Bridge does, or as opening them in PS. Of course, you want to make any desired adjustments to that raw file in LR for comparison.

Develop settings in LR are saved either in the Catalog by default (which you don't need to know exists) or, in addition, in a tiny "sidecar" text file (.xmp file) that is written as you make slider changes in LR. The option to save develop settings (and flags and ratings) as an XMP file is made in Catalog Settings (from the top menus), Metadata tab, check Automatically write changes into XMP. They will also be saved in the catalog.

You never have to save anything you do in the Develop module and the next time you open the file your last settings are there and you can tweak them further as you wish. They are nondestructive.

You do want to be sure you back up the Catalog regularly in case of any disaster. (Preferences, again.) But an additional backup is the XMP file, if you choose to use it, which stores everything except the white and black flags and membership in Collections. That's because those two items are extra in LR and not part of the metadata field from Adobe Camera Raw, which is the develop engine in LR.

Of course, the basic premise of your initial question is, which is better for raw conversion -- DPP or LR. That's like arguing about religion so I won't get into it. But I urge you to decide for yourself, objectively.

[Diane Miller]

Rereading your initial question -- "A bigger question ... will working on the CR2 file in DPP then mess up any attributes that I have set up in LR on that RAW file (say geotagging, keywording, rating, etc)?" Repeating, to be clear: No. Working on the .cr2 file in DPP will both start with and yield a resulting file that knows nothing about your geotagging, keywording, ratings, etc. in LR. If you bring in a TIFF from DPP "into" (cataloged by) LR you can copy those attributes, though. (I'm not sure about the geotag but I assume so.)

But in terms of a smooth and seamless workflow with handoffs back and forth to and from PS, and features such as collections and custom exports, for me, nothing beats LR and I haven't seen more than a miniscule difference between LR and DPP for raw conversion, with some things in both that are less than perfect. The difference that I find most objectionable is that DPP gives flat tonalities in certain tonal regions in some images where LR gives me much more detail. If I find an image where DPP gives a superior result (and I'm a certified pixel peeper) I'll use it on those images and import the result back into LR as a TIFF that I can work with in PS.

[Miguel Palaviccini]

The option to save develop settings (and flags and ratings) as an XMP file is made in Catalog Settings (from the top menus), Metadata tab, check Automatically write changes into XMP. They will also be saved in the catalog.

Of course, the basic premise of your initial question is, which is better for raw conversion -- DPP or LR. That's like arguing about religion so I won't get into it. But I urge you to decide for yourself, objectively.

Thanks for the detailed response Diane. So if I wanted to rate files (using stars, let's say) in LR and wanted to see those ratings in DPP, then I could have the data saved in the XMP file? Will this cause any problems if I develop (say an exposure/contrast/saturation change) in LR and then open the image in DPP. I guess I'm asking: Does DPP read the XMP file for tags (stars) and/or develop settings?

I'm in the process of deciding which program to use for the bulk of my editing. I understand that there are benefits to each, so I may end up with a workflow that involves both. I don't see myself getting away from all of hte LR features that I use to tag images, that's for sure.

[Diane Miller]

No, you won't see anything you did in LR in DPP, develop settings, ratings etc. Saving those things in the .xmp file only works within LR as a sort of backup (a duplication) to the same settings that will be contained in the Catalog. And they will be seen by ACR if they are in an .xmp file.

No matter what you did to an image in LR, if you open it in DPP it will be as though it was just out of the camera -- the bare raw file.

But you can see a DPP-converted and saved TIFF back in LR, if you sync the folder after saving it. You can then copy any metadata to it that you added in LR to the corresponding .CR2 file. The DPP-converted TIFF file will be treated just like a .psd or TIFF file saved from PS. But DPP won't recognize anything you have done to the TIFF in LR, as it won't recognize anything you did to a raw file.