Working Distances

[Lance Peters]

Hi - This may have a thousand answers however I would be intrested to know, if it hasn't been covered already (And as close as you can get - is not really the answer I am looking for :) )


And yes I kow it will depend on what location you are working and what lens and teleconverter you have at your disposal - but in general with WILD birds what distance are you working from???

I try to get a close as I can so that bird fills the majority of the frame if possible which means less to crop larger file size etc etc, however of course its not always possible to get close.

So I guess the questioon is how far away do you guys shoot from, what % to you crop to??
is a 50% crop too much?? Is a 75% crop to much?? (12MP Camera)

If this has been covered somewhere else please point me in that direction.

Thanks

Just learning so mch here - cant thank you guys enough - better get myself a membership I think. Also have to mention HOW INCREDIBLY FAST things are shipped from Birds as Art - Just outstanding.

Lance

[John Robuck]

...as close as you can get - is not really the answer I am looking for :) ) So I guess the questioon is how far away do you guys shoot from, what % to you crop to?? is a 50% crop too much?? Is a 75% crop to much?? (12MP Camera)

Lance

HI, Lance -- I'm not an expert, just another "student photographer," but since no one else is responding I do have a couple of thoughts on your question. I'll say in advance, the answer just might BE "as close as you can get" -- or at least "as close as you need to get to make the kind of image you want to make." For example, a lot depends on whether I'm out to shoot an image that counts as a "head and shoulders portrait" of a bird, or an image that also includes the tree--or the side of the cliff--that it is roosting in .

Starting with the crop question:
- Cropping often degrades the image, so how much to crop depends on the quality of the original image, and to what extent I could crop it without degrading image quality, given my intended final image size and use (a 4x6 print, or 12x18?).
- then I have to consider my own standards, and those of my intended audience, as to how much degradation of image quality is acceptable or unacceptable. My relatives seem to think anything I shoot is amazing as long as they can tell there's a bird in the picture. But to show anything to the folks on this website, I'd want to try and meet much higher standards. One way I've had of trying to develop those "standards" myself is to look at the work of the experts here, read their instructional materials (especially Arthur Morris' two books), and read their critiques of posted images.
- there are some very good photographers who insist on not cropping at all--they consider it a matter of craftsmanship to make the image in the camera, without needing to manipulate it later. I'm not that good, and I believe cropping was a valid tool in the physical darkroom and remains so in the digital world -- so cropping is an important tool for me, and one that I want to use correctly.

Given the limits on how much cropping I can get away with, I have to figure out how close can I get. There are a lot of variables: (a) what I would like to show in the image, (b) the physical geography of the site and any limitations on where I can set up my camera in relation to the subject, and (c) my own capabilities and limitations as well as those of the equipment I'm using. If I'm using a 500mm f/4 lens, I can work further back than I can with a 100-400mm f/5.6 zoom, in order to achieve the same image scale. I'm convinced I cannot get as good image quality with the 100-400 as I can with the 500 on a 40D, no matter how close I get. But I don't always want to lug that 8-pound 500mm lens on a hike, so I'll take the 3- pound 100-400 instead.

Another important consideration is how close will a bird allow me to get before if gets upset. Although making an image of a bird is important to me, I'd hate to cause it distress or cause it to abandon its nest just because I wanted to get as close as I could possibly get. A lot depends on the species and how timid it is by nature, and on where they are located -- Great Blue Herons here in Florida let you get a lot closer than they will in rural South Carolina.

Sorry for rambling, I let this become an exercise in gelling my thoughts on what I think I've learned about your question.

[Ian McHenry]

Never really thought about it Lance. Will be interested to hear the experts views.
Think a maximum of 75% crop for birds flying over then if loss of def too much recrop to a wider area.
Sometimes fly over shots of a particular bird are rare occasions so shoot ( sorry Artie) first and get the bird.
Ian Mc

[George DeCamp]

Lance

I can't put a number on the distance question. You learn to watch the bird and when you get inside it's comfort zone it will start to react, sometimes jump back, sometimes perk up and look like it is ready to fl away, etc. Each species has a comfort zone and it depends on if it is nesting, mating, raising young, etc.

As for cropping again what do you want to do with it? For posting purposes, go where you want to go but remember it can look pixelated if you go too far. I hardly ever go more than 50% and usually much less. I normally crop an image to make it look better in the frame. If the bird is too far away, I try and get closer if I can or look for something else unless I want to just grab an image for show and tell purposes.

[Robert O'Toole]

Hi Lance

I crop in camera 90% of the time, if the image is too small in the viewfinder just add an extender to the lens, I leave them in a belt case so there are always in reach. The extender option would be preferable to cropping more than 50% in PS. Most of the time you will have to bump ISO when you lose the 1-2 stops.

Robert