Canon 7D vs 40D/more pixels on the subject

[Julie Brown]

Hello Everyone,

I have read all the posts regarding FF vs crop sensors and have learned much from the great discussions thus far. My question might be redundant, but I will throw this out just to confirm my decision to upgrade to the 7D from my 40D, which I have had since 2008. Obviously, I will gain more resolution from the jump from 10.1 MP to 18MP. Also the 100% viewfinder on the 7D should help my aging eyes see more detail on the subject. Oh, and the AF system is superior, as well as the faster frame rate. Correct so far? Now here is the second part of the question: if I understand the numerous explanations provided by Arash, if I cannot get close enough to fill the frame with a bird-I should take my 600mm (300 f2.8 + 2X III) off of the 5D MKII, and put it on the 7D, assuming I have enough light to keep the ISO down. BTW, what is the optimal ISO for the least amount of noise on the 7D, assuming the image is exposed correctly?

Thanks in advance to anyone who wants to comment.

[Roger Clark]

Hello Everyone,

I have read all the posts regarding FF vs crop sensors and have learned much from the great discussions thus far. My question might be redundant, but I will throw this out just to confirm my decision to upgrade to the 7D from my 40D, which I have had since 2008. Obviously, I will gain more resolution from the jump from 10.1 MP to 18MP. Also the 100% viewfinder on the 7D should help my aging eyes see more detail on the subject. Oh, and the AF system is superior, as well as the faster frame rate. Correct so far? Now here is the second part of the question: if I understand the numerous explanations provided by Arash, if I cannot get close enough to fill the frame with a bird-I should take my 600mm (300 f2.8 + 2X III) off of the 5D MKII, and put it on the 7D, assuming I have enough light to keep the ISO down. BTW, what is the optimal ISO for the least amount of noise on the 7D, assuming the image is exposed correctly?

Thanks in advance to anyone who wants to comment.

Julie,
You have it right. The optimal ISO for the least amount of noise overall is always the lowest ISO on every camera. If you want the least fixed pattern noise in the shadows/dark areas, then a higher ISO is warranted (mostly applies to night star shots or perhaps black birds next to a white bird). For the 7D to minimize fixed pattern noise in the shadows, ISO 1600 or more is necessary. My 5D Mark II needs ISO 3200, and 1DIV is good at ISO 800 with little to no apparent pattern noise at about 1600 and above.

Roger

[Doug Brown]

Those are all correct statements Julie. You'll get more pixels on your subject with a 7D than a FF body at every focal length (assuming a constant distance to subject). Which ISOs to use on the 7D are a matter of personal preference. ISO 800 and below is acceptable to many photographers.

[arash_hazeghi]

Hello Everyone,

I have read all the posts regarding FF vs crop sensors and have learned much from the great discussions thus far. My question might be redundant, but I will throw this out just to confirm my decision to upgrade to the 7D from my 40D, which I have had since 2008. Obviously, I will gain more resolution from the jump from 10.1 MP to 18MP. Also the 100% viewfinder on the 7D should help my aging eyes see more detail on the subject. Oh, and the AF system is superior, as well as the faster frame rate. Correct so far? Now here is the second part of the question: if I understand the numerous explanations provided by Arash, if I cannot get close enough to fill the frame with a bird-I should take my 600mm (300 f2.8 + 2X III) off of the 5D MKII, and put it on the 7D, assuming I have enough light to keep the ISO down. BTW, what is the optimal ISO for the least amount of noise on the 7D, assuming the image is exposed correctly?

Thanks in advance to anyone who wants to comment.

Julie,

I agree with Doug, if you want good quality photos with 7D keep your ISO below 800, shoot in good light and expose to the right as much as you can w/o blowing the highlights. Also you need to spend some time learning how to apply advanced noise reduction to 7D files.

BTW, you may want to wait a few more months because 7D is getting old now and there might be a replacement model coming out soon.

[Julie Brown]

Thanks Roger, Doug, and Arash for your comments.

Arash, is the advanced noise reduction techniques part of a software package (I have Lightroom, CS5, and NIK)? I am assuming this is all detailed in your NR guide.

[Chris Brennan]

Hi Julie -

i used a 7D as my primary body for several years until i was able to upgrade to a 1D Mark IV. I found that ISO's 400 and 800 were the most consistent with the nod going to the former as my primary ISO. I have not had much experience with any other software suite but I can speak highly of NIK software's Dfine noise reduction software... it works very well with 7D files.

[arash_hazeghi]

Thanks Roger, Doug, and Arash for your comments.

Arash, is the advanced noise reduction techniques part of a software package (I have Lightroom, CS5, and NIK)? I am assuming this is all detailed in your NR guide.

I use Canon DPP (comes free with all Canon cameras) and Neat Image for noise reduction and yup details in the guide.

BTW, make sure to look at used market, mint condition 7Ds are going for really low prices these days!

[Don Hamilton Jr.]

Julie, all of the above is spot on. I would concur with all, 400 -800 is a sweet spot for iso, however i have used much higher, and then used several rounds of nik's define. Fantastic camera, however i too suspect a possible new version.. maybe a 7d II, who knows.. nice to hear form you!!
Regards..don

[Daniel Cadieux]

Julie, last year I went from the 40D (which died - my fault) to the 7D and I am very happy with it. I'm on ISO 800 ALOT with it and love the result. As Arash mentions, shoot to the right if you can...but I don't worry about "good" light (lots of overcast shooting and no troubles). A regular round of NR to the background suffices in most cases (I've never use NR on the subjects themselves). I think you would be happy with the camera.

[Steve Uffman]

Julie, I have had the 7D and in fact a very early flavor....I try to never shoot over 800 ISO unless its for snapshots of grandkids or something where the gyms can be a bit dark...and it handles well for that standard. Actually I have enjoyed my 7d more after I made the necessary micro adjustments for several lens. I saw several people post wonderful images with their 7d and figured out in the field where my wifes t2i was producing better focused images than mine. we were shooting a duckling swimming in front of a hen...both of us the AF point on the hen and were shooting the same settings...hers was spot on and the hen was blurred.....my hen was spot on but the duckling was soft. Point is there is a lot of discussion about micro adjustments...I am a disciple of it now...

[Roger Clark]

Julie,
in case there was any confusion in my post, here is a clarification. I do have a 7D, 1DIV and 5DII that I use routinely. I also have owned/used 10D. 20D, 30D, 40D. and D60. On all the cameras I try and use as low of an ISO as I can to get the shutter speed I need. I try and stay below about 800 and prefer 200 to 400 for normal BIF, wildlife, and other images, regardless of camera. But I do a lot of night scenes where I need to boost the low end as the exposure times are limited (for example, earth rotating causing stars to trail). I have found that at ISO 800 and lower on most cameras, fixed pattern noise shows, This also happens on regular day shots when you need to lift the shadows. But at ISOs above about 800, the fixed pattern noise is not an issue (because photon noise and sensor read noise is magnified larger than the fixed pattern noise at those ISOs).

Roger

[Doug Brown]

Thanks for the clarification Roger!

[Julie Brown]

Hi Roger, Doug, Arash, Chris, Don, Daniel, and Steve,

Thanks to all of you for your helpful comments on this thread. To update: I traded in some older gear at my local camera store (Roberts) and got a new 7D (they did not have any used Canon bodies) on the afternoon of my original post. Then I went to Florida for the Big 'O' Birding Festival two days later and got a chance to use the 7D with my 400 f5.6L and my 300 f2.8L IS + 2X III extender. I also used a 5D MKII with both lenses as well. I really like the AF display and faster frame rate of the 7D. I tried to keep the ISO down as much as possible and expose to the right. Overall, I am pleased with the sharpness and detail performance of the 7D, especially with BIF. This cattle egret is an example. I am looking forward to practicing and learning more about this camera.