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Thread: Nikon D800 is a reality - 36.3 Million Pixels!

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    Co-Founder James Shadle's Avatar
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    Default Nikon D800 is a reality - 36.3 Million Pixels!

    A new Nikon FX-format digital SLR camera with the world's highest effective pixel count–36.3-million pixels–for noteworthy definition and image quality

    TOKYO - Nikon Corporation is pleased to announce the release of the Nikon D800 FX-format digital SLR camera. The D800 offers the world's highest* effective pixel count of 36.3-million pixels, and is equipped with the new EXPEED 3 image-processing engine and a 91K-pixel (approximately 91,000 pixels) RGB sensor for overwhelming definition and image quality. Nikon will be exhibiting the D800 at the CP+ CAMERA & PHOTO IMAGIING SHOW, to be held Thursday, February 9 through Sunday, February 12 in Yokohama, Japan. This exhibition is open to the public.

    • *Among interchangeable lens digital SLR cameras equipped with image sensors conforming to the 35-mm film size as of February 7, 2012


    The D800, a new FX-format model offers an noteworthy effective pixel count of 36.3-million pixels. At its core is superior image quality equal to that achieved with medium-format digital cameras. The D800 is also equipped with a number of new functions for a high level of added value, all in a compact and lightweight body.
    In addition to a new Nikon FX-format CMOS image sensor and the new EXPEED 3 image-processing engine, specifically optimized for Nikon digital SLR cameras, the D800 is equipped with a new 91K-pixel (approximately 91,000 pixels) RGB sensor that supports the Advanced Scene Recognition System with its noteworthy advances in scene recognition performance. The camera is also equipped with a number of new functions, including Multi-area mode Full HD D-Movie that enables movie recording using either the FX-based movie format or the DX-based movie format.
    For users who demand an even greater sense of definition, Nikon also releases the D800E, a model that offers increased resolution for images with more dimension.

    D800 Development Background

    Reflecting Nikon's efforts to respond to a number of demands, including those for a higher pixel count, better image quality, and a smaller and lighter camera, the D800 is a digital SLR camera developed to capture still images with the superior resolution and record movies with the true high-definition picture quality demanded not only by advanced amateur photographers but also by professionals.
    Nikon is responding to the needs of users who demand more from photographs and movies with the recently announced D4, a flagship model that combines excellent definition and image quality with superior high-speed performance, and the D800, a model that offers the ultimate in resolution demanded for nature and studio photography.

    D800 Primary Features


    • New Nikon FX-format CMOS image sensor The D800 is equipped with a new Nikon FX-format CMOS image sensor and the new EXPEED 3 image-processing engine for Nikon digital SLR cameras. This new image-processing engine is faster and offers greater performance. The camera also offers the world's highest* effective pixel count of 36.3-million pixels. When combined with the sharp rendering of NIKKOR lenses, images exhibiting resolution equal to that achieved with medium-format digital cameras are possible.
      The D800 also responds to the demands of professional photographers with a standard sensitivity range of ISO 100–6400, and additional support for equivalents of ISO 50 (Lo 1) and up to ISO 25600 (Hi 2), for superior image and picture quality in dimly lit situations, such as just before sunrise and just after sunset, with shooting of still images as well as movie recording.
      • *Among interchangeable lens digital SLR cameras equipped with image sensors conforming to the 35-mm film size as of February 7, 2012

    • New 91K-pixel RGB sensor for the more accurate Advanced Scene Recognition System The D800 is equipped with a new 91K-pixel (approximately 91,000 pixels) RGB sensor. When a human face is detected in the frame, 3D Color Matrix Metering III bases exposure control on the brightness of that face so that the face is optimally exposed even with backlighting. In addition, the superior resolution of the metering sensor, which makes full use of an incredible 91,000 pixels, enables extremely precise analysis of the scene for more accurate control over autofocusing, auto exposure, i-TTL flash control, and auto white balance.
      • *There is no display in the viewfinder that shows when a face or faces have been recognized.

    • Multi-area mode Full HD D-Movie for movie recording using one of two movie formats The D800 records movies exhibiting superior resolution with optimal processing of information acquired from the 36.3-million pixel image sensor. Recording of 1920 x 1080p/30-fps full-HD movies is supported, and users can choose to record using the FX-based movie format or the DX-based movie format according to recording conditions. The FX-based movie format offers a shallow depth-of-field with an emphasis on blur characteristics while the DX-based movie format enables recording of movies that bring subjects closer when lenses with short focal lengths are used. The D800 is also equipped with a headphone jack and supports precise adjustment of microphone sensitivity. In addition, it supports simultaneous display of movies or the movie live view display in the camera monitor and on an external monitor. Further, the D800 responds to the needs of professionals who require uncompressed movie files with the ability to record movies directly to an external HDMI recorder in movie live view mode. The D800 also offers a time-lapse photography function that captures images at a selected interval and then combines the images to create a time-lapse movie that shows the changes in a particular scene that occur over time.
    • Viewfinder frame coverage of approximately 100%*1 and a lightweight and durable water- and dust-resistant body The viewfinder built into the D800 supports a frame coverage of approximately 100%*1 and magnification of approximately 0.7x*2. Adoption of a magnesium alloy for the body gives the camera the same level of durability as the D700 with a weight approximately 10% less.
      • *1With FX-format image area
      • *2With 50-mm f/1.4 lens at infinity, -1.0 m-1

    • Support for high-speed continuous shooting and a variety of battery types with the Multi-Power Battery Pack MB-D12 (optional) The MB-D12 supports the Rechargeable Li-ion Batteries EN-EL15 and EN-EL18, common AA batteries, and the AC Adapter EH-5a/b (with Power Connector EP-5B). When the MB-D12 is mounted on the D800, high-speed continuous shooting at approximately 6 fps* using the DX-format image area is possible. The MB-D12 also offers the added convenience of controls, including shutter-release button, AF-ON button and multi-selector, for vertical shooting. What's more, the same seals as those used for the D800 with its magnesium body offer superior resistance to dust and water.
      • *When powered by the AC adapter, or AA batteries or Rechargeable Li-ion Battery EN-EL18 with the MB-D12. Measured according to CIPA guidelines.

    • Other D800 Functions and Features
      • A 51-point AF system for improved subject acquisition and focus performance under dim lighting. In addition, 11 focus points (five at center with an addition three to each side) are fully functional when lenses with a maximum aperture of f/8 are used.
      • A 3.2-inch, approximately 921k-dot LCD monitor with reinforced glass, automatic monitor brightness control, and wide viewing angle
      • A virtual horizon that shows the degree to which the camera is tilted sideways (roll), or forward or backward (pitch) with display in the monitor and viewfinder
      • A new shutter unit that has passed testing for 200,000 cycles and supports a maximum shutter speed of 1/8000 s and flash sync speed of 1/250 s
      • Continuous shooting at 4 (FX-format/5 : 4 image area) or 5 (DX-format/1.2x image area) fps*
        • *When powered by a Rechargeable Li-ion Battery EN-EL15

      • CompactFlash and SD dual memory card slots
      • Support for SuperSpeed USB (USB 3.0)



    The D800E with specifications for even greater resolution with an effective pixel count of 36.3-million pixels

    In-camera disabling of the aliasing and moiré pattern reduction operation performed by the optical low-pass filter built into the D800E allows light passing through a NIKKOR lens to strike photodiodes directly for even greater resolution. This makes this model optimal for landscape and artistic photography with which higher resolution and clear definition is demanded. With the exception of the modification indicated above, all other functions and characteristics are the same as with the D800.

    • Aliasing and moiré patterns may be more noticeable in images captured with the D800E with some subjects, scenes or shooting conditions.
    • Optical low-pass filter IR coating and anti-reflection coating performance is the same with both the D800 and the D800E.

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    BPN Member Chris Knight's Avatar
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    Looks fantastic except for what I need higher fps and buffer which I havent seen specs or estimate on. I like that it uses the same batteries and some accessories as the D7000 that I already own. But I will hold out for the D400 when it finally comes out if they listen to user like it looks like they did with the D800 the D400 should be a nice improvement too. Like that lower light AF capabilities of the D4 & D800 hope it carries over in the D400 too

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    Avian Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    4fps FX...5fps DX...6fps DX with battery grip. My guess is buffer is a bit limited in FX mode...Each NEF file is ~80MB...you better hook this thing up directly to a 256GB SSD!

    What I like about this camera is that despite the gigantic increase in resolution, AF, video etc. it still costs $3K, exactly the same MSRP D700 was originally introduced at in 2009! Given inflation and weaker US$ Nikon has actually made the camera cheaper too!!!

    I hope Canon learns from this and don't increase the price of 5D3 compared to 5D2 as they did with 1DX.
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    BPN Member dankearl's Avatar
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    Arash, if you don't mind, a little help from a beginner out on this.
    I have only been photographing with a DSLR camera for 2 years.
    I have Nikon D7000, but have thought of making the jump to a more pro camera.
    I am pretty much tied to Nikon now with the lens i have but have thought about an FX body except for the reach factor (the 1.5 crop of the D7000)
    None of the Nikon pro camera's have enthused me, this one maybe does.
    As A neophyte, am I correct that a 36m sensor would have a 18m photo at a 50% crop?
    Excuse me if this sounds really uninformed because I am, but if that is the case would this FX camera be a
    good fit for a Nikon owner who wants to upgrade?
    I value your expertise and experience and I would like to add a body, the D7000 is a nice camera but if I wanted a FX,
    does this sound like an upgrade?
    Dan Kearl

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    Avian Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dankearl View Post
    Arash, if you don't mind, a little help from a beginner out on this.
    I have only been photographing with a DSLR camera for 2 years.
    I have Nikon D7000, but have thought of making the jump to a more pro camera.
    I am pretty much tied to Nikon now with the lens i have but have thought about an FX body except for the reach factor (the 1.5 crop of the D7000)
    None of the Nikon pro camera's have enthused me, this one maybe does.
    As A neophyte, am I correct that a 36m sensor would have a 18m photo at a 50% crop?
    Excuse me if this sounds really uninformed because I am, but if that is the case would this FX camera be a
    good fit for a Nikon owner who wants to upgrade?
    I value your expertise and experience and I would like to add a body, the D7000 is a nice camera but if I wanted a FX,
    does this sound like an upgrade?
    Dan, crop factor has actually nothing to do with reach, that is a misunderstanding that still looms internet forums. Reach is only a function of pixel size.

    When cropped to DX FOV D800 will have 15 Mpixels so about the same as your current D7000, the high ISO performance is probably better since this is a new and premium sensor so it has slightly better quantum efficiency, it will have a better color filter as well as a better low pass filter (there is even one w/o a low pass filter which would have better detail at the cost of some moire artifacts) so overall it would be better yes but not my much if you plan to crop your files aggressively. This only applies to conditions that your distance to subject is fixed (i.e. you cannot get closer to the bird or use a longer lens).

    However if you are going to use the D800 in DX crop mode all the time you are defeating the purpose the camera was built for, the true advantage of the FX sensor is that it collect more light and deliver a high SNR compared to small sensor cameras, in order to take advantage of this you must use the entire sensor area which means you have to adjust your distance to the subject accordingly.

    For my style of photography, that is hand hold flight images a full frame camera yields superior results 99% of the time because I know how to get close to my subject and photograph them at close range, so I take advantage of large sensor yielding the highest possible IQ. By having a larger FOV I also avoid clipping the wings so I end up with more frames when the bird is flying towards me. However some people use tripod in the field and have limited physical ability in moving heavy rigs...or some shoot small birds from a fixed distance...so it really depends on your style of photogtaphy. In any case the D800 is an improvement, how much of an improvement? If you are cropping your files all the time and using the DX mode...a little improvement, but if you are going to take advantage of the FX mode it is a HUGE step up.

    Keep in mind in FX mode the camera is just 4fps, like my 5D2 you can make due with it, but it requires lots experience in anticipation of action and sometimes you will just miss the peak of action. Fortunately unlike D7000, there is no buffer issue according to RG http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/mul...=7-11674-12304 it can shoot up to 20 14-Bit NEF files so that is 5 seconds of shooting...
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 02-07-2012 at 01:59 AM.
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    BPN Member dankearl's Avatar
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    Thanks much, Arash, I will digest, do some research and think about this.
    I also just handhold and have no interest in tripods for wildlife and birding, I like hiking and doing fieldcraft as much as possible.
    The high iso factor of FX cameras interests me as I have low light much of the time in Oregon.
    I would like to upgrade (if their is an upgrade) to the D7000, but I have no idea whether it would get better results
    or not.
    Dan Kearl

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Knight View Post
    Looks fantastic except for what I need higher fps and buffer which I havent seen specs or estimate on. I like that it uses the same batteries and some accessories as the D7000 that I already own. But I will hold out for the D400 when it finally comes out if they listen to user like it looks like they did with the D800 the D400 should be a nice improvement too. Like that lower light AF capabilities of the D4 & D800 hope it carries over in the D400 too
    looks like the buffer depth is about 20 14Bit loss-less NEF files (at 4fps and a super fast CF card)
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    Avian Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dankearl View Post
    Thanks much, Arash, I will digest, do some research and think about this.
    I also just handhold and have no interest in tripods for wildlife and birding, I like hiking and doing fieldcraft as much as possible.
    The high iso factor of FX cameras interests me as I have low light much of the time in Oregon.
    I would like to upgrade (if their is an upgrade) to the D7000, but I have no idea whether it would get better results
    or not.
    If you do hand hold photography and can get reasonably close to the subject I would def go for D800, in fact if I still had Nikon I would have already placed my pre-order. The other advantage I forgot to mention is Nikon flagship AF system. The D800 uses the same 51-point AF system in D4 which is much more advanced and capable compared to a consumer camera like D7000. In fact I think this is the most advanced AF system currently on the market and I am jealous of Nikon shooters.

    You have to make sure you got enough RAM and processing power, anything less than a quad core with 12GB of RAM and a SSD will struggle with those huge NEF files!!!

    Edit: Looks like the D800E actually has a low-pass filter, but it optically cancels out the blur effect...we have to wait and see how effective it is.
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 02-07-2012 at 02:13 AM. Reason: correction
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    Wildlife / Landscape Moderator Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi View Post
    What I like about this camera is that despite the gigantic increase in resolution, AF, video etc. it still costs $3K, exactly the same MSRP D700 was originally introduced at in 2009! Given inflation and weaker US$ Nikon has actually made the camera cheaper too!!!

    I hope Canon learns from this and don't increase the price of 5D3 compared to 5D2 as they did with 1DX.
    Interesting assessment, Arash. I for one am very curious about how this one will perform in real-world situations. I think many landscapers will relish using this high-res camera if the files are good and clean at ISO100-400...
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    Avian Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morkel Erasmus View Post
    Interesting assessment, Arash. I for one am very curious about how this one will perform in real-world situations. I think many landscapers will relish using this high-res camera if the files are good and clean at ISO100-400...
    The full size samples are already online (NX2 conversion)

    D800
    http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d800/sample01.htm

    D800E
    http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d800/sample02.htm

    30MB JPEG files
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    Wildlife / Landscape Moderator Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi View Post
    The full size samples are already online (NX2 conversion)

    D800
    http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d800/sample01.htm

    D800E
    http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d800/sample02.htm

    30MB JPEG files
    Thanks - will check it out. Was actually referring more to in-depth reviews to be published with test shots comparable to other models in the same price-bracket.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morkel Erasmus View Post
    Thanks - will check it out. Was actually referring more to in-depth reviews to be published with test shots comparable to other models in the same price-bracket.
    The problem is there are no other 36 Mpixel SLR (or even close to that) to compare with
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    Forum Participant Matt Fragale's Avatar
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    I'm hoping that with the D4 and D800 hitting the wild, that there will be some good deals on used D3 or D3s bodies out there.

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    Looking at the sample, I don't think this is going to be a great portrait camera - unless the models trim the hair in their noses.
    Wow, the detail is pretty incredible.

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    I am in Florida now and can use an FX body, but home in New England I need a DX. My hope now is that a D400 DX camera comes out soon. Some are saying the a D300s replacement will be FX.

    Did anyone notice the price for the battery grip for the D800 is listed for $616 on the Nikon site? ouch

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    Wildlife / Landscape Moderator Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi View Post
    The problem is there are no other 36 Mpixel SLR (or even close to that) to compare with
    True, I know...But I would like to see how IQ overall stacks up against say a D3x, 5Dmk2 and the old D700...
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    I believe that image quality of the D800 will be similar to the D7000. The D7000's sensor is a 1.5 crop @ 16.2mp. If you were to make the D7000's sensor into a full-frame sensor, it would have a sensor size of 36.5 mp. The new D800 is 36.3mp. So...If you were happy with the image quality of the D7000, you should be with the D800. They should be very similar.

    Alan
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    Forum Participant Matt Fragale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allanrube View Post
    I am in Florida now and can use an FX body, but home in New England I need a DX. My hope now is that a D400 DX camera comes out soon. Some are saying the a D300s replacement will be FX.

    Did anyone notice the price for the battery grip for the D800 is listed for $616 on the Nikon site? ouch
    Well, the nice thing about the D800, it seems to me, is that being 36MP FX.... it's still 15MP in DX mode. Perhaps it could be both for you :)

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    D800 (3000.00) or D800E (3300.00) which gives you the low-pass filter which gets rid of moire. Why did Nikon even offer two models with a $300.00 difference. It's like $300.00 is not a load of money when your talking photography equipment.

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    Wildlife / Landscape Moderator Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Poole View Post
    It's like $300.00 is not a load of money when your talking photography equipment.
    Where have you been, Chris? It isn't!!

    Be glad you deal in USD. In my currency it's ZAR 2,400
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    Morkel the dollar difference I show is the cost between the two models, not the cost of the camera body itself.

    Here in the old US at B&H
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...A=endecaSearch

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    Wildlife / Landscape Moderator Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Poole View Post
    Morkel the dollar difference I show is the cost between the two models, not the cost of the camera body itself.

    Here in the old US at B&H
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...A=endecaSearch

    I know! That's why I was trying to put this "model price difference" in perspective for you. Down here you can get a few pretty decent items for that $300 difference...
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    I thought I'd also point out that to get 6fps you not only need the grip but you also need the $169 D4 battery and to get 5fps you need the grip not just the DX mode. In Canada the grip is only $429 which is strange compared to the US price. However to make this a 6fps camera you need to spend about $1100 extra assuming you'd want two D4 batteries.

    Yesterday I was initially floored when reading about this camera because it looked like you could use it as a DX and Fx at the same time. There is also a 1.2 crop mode making it similar to the 1D series crop. The problem is that the files for my use are just going to be too big if not in DX mode. I really don't want 50-75MB files.

    I was seriously considering switching to Nikon from Canon but have since done more research and realized I can't give up on Canons much better range of lens selection.

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    Avian Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Newhouse View Post
    I thought I'd also point out that to get 6fps you not only need the grip but you also need the $169 D4 battery and to get 5fps you need the grip not just the DX mode. In Canada the grip is only $429 which is strange compared to the US price. However to make this a 6fps camera you need to spend about $1100 extra assuming you'd want two D4 batteries.

    Yesterday I was initially floored when reading about this camera because it looked like you could use it as a DX and Fx at the same time. There is also a 1.2 crop mode making it similar to the 1D series crop. The problem is that the files for my use are just going to be too big if not in DX mode. I really don't want 50-75MB files.

    I was seriously considering switching to Nikon from Canon but have since done more research and realized I can't give up on Canons much better range of lens selection.
    hum...not sure, you buy this camera because it makes LARGE files with lots of detail, that's exactly what you pay for. You don' t necessarily need the D4 battery for 6fps you can do with AA batteries too, just get a bunch of cheap rechargeable AA's. (That's what I did when I had a D700 to get 8fps).

    Price is really good considering what you get, also Nikon lens selection is better than Canon these days. Nikon has had a fantastic 24-70 for many years and the legendary 14-24. Canon has no good wide lenses if you are critical about image quality. They just came out with a new 24-70, it is $400 more expensive than the Nikon lens and I am not sure if it is as good.

    Also super telephoto lenses on Nikon department are now considerably cheaper than Canon's, of course Canon is lighter (assuming Canon finally actually starts production), it makes a big difference if you hand hold your rid, but if you use a tripod I am not sure why you would pay $3000 more for the Canon 600 as opposed to Nikon's 600VR.

    I think if Canon messes up 5DMKIII it will be very difficult for them to compete with Nikon, I hope they don't :)
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 02-09-2012 at 10:45 AM.
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  25. #25
    Forum Participant John Chardine's Avatar
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    Of course the 36mp metric is a function of pixel density x sensor area, and in this case is a large number because the pixel density is moderately high and the sensor is FF. The sensor is ca. 15mp at 1.5 crop so it should be comparable with similar sensors out there (ca 4.9 micron pixel size).

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    Forum Participant Matt Fragale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Newhouse View Post
    I was seriously considering switching to Nikon from Canon but have since done more research and realized I can't give up on Canons much better range of lens selection.
    I was under the impression that there was a disturbingly large range of lenses available for both Canon and Nikon... or did you just mean the ones that you own?

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    I mean that for what I shoot. Specifically the 100-400, 4005.6 and even the 70-200F4IS. I also don't use 2.8 zooms (except considering the 70-200mkII) and I like Canon's selection better. My next wide angle purchase will be the 17 and 24 TSE (no such thing on the Nikon front). Also I can get the 14-24 with an adaptor for Canon but its a no go to try and mount Canon onto Nikon. That is what I ment about Canon over Nikon for lenses. I'm also purchasing a 600mkII for this summer (if they show up).

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    Forum Participant Matt Fragale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Newhouse View Post
    I mean that for what I shoot. Specifically the 100-400, 4005.6 and even the 70-200F4IS. I also don't use 2.8 zooms (except considering the 70-200mkII) and I like Canon's selection better. My next wide angle purchase will be the 17 and 24 TSE (no such thing on the Nikon front). Also I can get the 14-24 with an adaptor for Canon but its a no go to try and mount Canon onto Nikon. That is what I ment about Canon over Nikon for lenses. I'm also purchasing a 600mkII for this summer (if they show up).
    Interesting. I know precisely zero about Canon, so I'll take your word for that. When I was looking at cameras a year or so ago and trying to decide between the various choices, I narrowed it down to Canon and Nikon based on the fact that both seemed to have a dizzying array of lenses available. I guess if you're specialized enough that a specific few lenses are essential to what you do, you gotta go with that, eh? I'm curious, why don't you like the 2.8 zooms? Is that because of price or bulk or is there some limitation of them that you don't like? Probably bordering on thread hijack now... lol sorry!

    J

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    I just don't shoot much in low light so I don't need 2.8 and I am happy with my F4 that I have in my 17-40L and 24-105L. However, I have occasionally found a need while shooting BIF to need lower than the 5.6 on my 100-400 and 400. I'm considering the 70-200MkII to use in lower light at 2.8 and with the 1.4x teleconverter at F4 in moderate light.
    Don't get me wrong, Nikon has a very large lens selection and even larger than Canon if you consider that all the legacy glass can be used on the newer cameras. Nikon has a few gems like the 14-24 and their 24-70 that up until this new release was better regarded than Canon's version. Canon's new release of the 24-70mkII will likely rival the 70-200MkIIiS that is regarded as the sharpest zoom available from Canon (probably will be replaced by the 200-400 but thats a whole different level). Nikon's 70-200 VRII is also about equal to Canons MkII. Nikon has a 300F4 but no 400F5.6 and Canon's 300F4 has IS. Nikon has the 200-400 but Canon will soon and with built in 1.4 converter to boot.
    I would love to run a dual setup of Canon and Nikon for a time to compare and contrast because nothing compares to doing the research yourself with a hands-on evalutation. You haven't made a bad choice with Nikon. There are just a few pieces of the puzzle that Nikon has yet to produce.

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