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Thread: Typical BIRDS AS ART

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Default Typical BIRDS AS ART

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    I created this Adelie Penguin head portrait on Paulet Island at 4:09 pm on January 16 in beautiful light with the ocean as BKGR: Canon 300mm f/2.8L IS lens, the 2X III TC, and the EOS_1D Mark IV (with a dead rear LCD).... ISO 400. Evaluative metering -2/3 stop (to be safe): 1/2500 sec. at f/8.

    Don't be shy; all honest comments welcome.

    Lot more on my Southern Oceans trip stuff here and in the last BAA Bulletin here.
    Last edited by Arthur Morris; 02-01-2012 at 01:52 PM.
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    Artie:

    The eye and bill are striking, ocean makes for a pleasant BG. THe texture in the eye ring is neat.

    I might consider removing the specular highlight off the bill tip.

    I am a bit bothered by the DOF, particularly on the whites. I won't make the same mistake as before about increasing the f/stop #, as with this combo, you just aren't going to gain much, but I do find it a bit distracting. The OOF blacks on the shoulder aren't as noticeable.

    How far away were you from the bird?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Stout View Post
    Artie: The eye and bill are striking, ocean makes for a pleasant BG. THe texture in the eye ring is neat. I might consider removing the specular highlight off the bill tip. I am a bit bothered by the DOF, particularly on the whites. I won't make the same mistake as before about increasing the f/stop #, as with this combo, you just aren't going to gain much, but I do find it a bit distracting. The OOF blacks on the shoulder aren't as noticeable. How far away were you from the bird? Cheers Randy
    Thanks for stopping by. 5.46 meters according to the EXIF--had thought that I was closer, about 12feet. I did do some bill clean-up and considered eliminating the specular highlight..... The (presumed) lack of d-o-f on the whites bothers me zero; I have been focusing on the eye and letting em rip for almost three decades now and see no reason to do anything but what has been working. That said I was working at f/8. That said I obviously had lots of room to stop down more here.....

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    BPN Viewer Pieter de Waal's Avatar
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    Hi Arthur , my first view of this species and as mentioned a very striking profile. Lovely detail on the bill and head area.

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    Avian Moderator Randy Stout's Avatar
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    Artie:

    At that working distance, camera and lens, DOF calculator says about .75 inch more DOF by going to F/16, equally divided in front of and behind the focal point.

    With no BG issues to worry about, might have been worth a frame or two at smaller f/stop, after you got your original shot on the card.

    You had lots of light and SS to play with.

    I am all for having as many variations to look at in post as possible. I am always having to fight my tendency to take the same shot over and over again!

    The strong blue certainly makes for a striking image.

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    This is a very interesting bird, nicely portrayed with a good background. The eye, pose and rich background make for an impressive image.

    But as noted above, there is some lack of feather definition in the white areas. The same can be said IMO for some of the dark regions. Was this a substantial crop?

    There also is a small, conspicuous white spot on the front of the beak that I would remove by cloning.

    But thanks for sharing.

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    Avian Moderator Randy Stout's Avatar
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    Norm

    He was about 12 feet away,so probably near full frame.

    Shallow DOF with the shot parameters

    Cheers

    Randy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Stout View Post
    Norm

    He was about 12 feet away,so probably near full frame.

    Shallow DOF with the shot parameters

    Cheers

    Randy
    Thanks Randy! The relationship between distance to subject, f stop and DOF is something all photographers should keep in mind.
    Last edited by Norm Dulak; 02-01-2012 at 05:57 PM.

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    Wonderful shot. Great exposure on the blacks and whites. Bill and eye are tack sharp and I really like the comp.
    Well done.

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    I like the sharp bill/eye, compostion and BG. Is the BG a bit noisy or is it my tired eyes.

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    In looking at this image further, it seemed to me that there might be more detail in the very dark region of the birds head that could be revealed with a little adjustment. I've taken the image into PS CS5 and applied a little Shadows & Highlights adjustment. I've also eliminated the specular highlight on the beak, that I found distracting. I'll leave it to others to judge the result.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Stout View Post
    Artie: At that working distance, camera and lens, DOF calculator says about .75 inch more DOF by going to F/16, equally divided in front of and behind the focal point. With no BG issues to worry about, might have been worth a frame or two at smaller f/stop, after you got your original shot on the card. You had lots of light and SS to play with. I am all for having as many variations to look at in post as possible. I am always having to fight my tendency to take the same shot over and over again! The strong blue certainly makes for a striking image. Cheers Randy
    All good points Randy. I saw this situation,that is, that killer distant blue. I sat, I made maybe two frame, and the bird started preening like mad--I kept one of those to, and then he walked down the slope. End of party. In the future I will be more open to stopping down if given the time to do so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Crosswell View Post
    I like the sharp bill/eye, compostion and BG. Is the BG a bit noisy or is it my tired eyes.
    Hi Jim. Thank you sir. The BKGR certainly is noisy. Remember that when we exposure properly for the WHITEs the MIDDLE/DARKS are well more than a stop under-exposed.... We generally do not worry too much about noise here at BAA. We do not do a lot of printing and in 28 years I have never had a publisher say, "Can you reduce BKGR noise on this or that image so that we can send you a check. IAC, there is as there usually is a great lesson here. NR in Photoshop on its own layer did not do a whole bunch on the noise. Denise Ippolito taught me the killer trick for NR on the BKGR. After you run NR on the whole image on a Layer go to Filter/Blur/Surface Blur and experiment with values between 1/2 and 4/6. Then erase the bird with a regular Layer Mask. The BKGR will be smooth as butter. As in the repost here. Thanks Lady D!
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    ps; Thanks Robert H. And I reduced the size and brightness of the specular highlight on the bill tip for Randy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pieter de Waal View Post
    Hi Arthur , my first view of this species and as mentioned a very striking profile. Lovely detail on the bill and head area.
    Thanks Pieter. I like it a lot too :)
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    really nice intimate portrait. Only thing that bothered me was the specular highlight on the bill and now it is gone!
    Gail

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    Quote Originally Posted by gail bisson View Post
    really nice intimate portrait. Only thing that bothered me was the specular highlight on the bill and now it is gone! Gail
    Thanks Gail. Are you packing yet?
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    A really nice picture. I like the fascial expresion the best, especially the eye. I like the original. In norm's version part of the magic has been lost. More details, less magic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Egressy View Post
    A really nice picture. I like the fascial expresion the best, especially the eye. I like the original. In norm's version part of the magic has been lost. More details, less magic.
    Thanks a lot Karl. I too like the original best. I like my blacks BLACK.
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    very nice portrait, good exposure and nice HA. I am OK with shallow DOF, I might be mistaken but to my eyes the sharpest focus appears to be on the beak as opposed to the eye. I know you put the focus on the eye but I have seen sometimes my camera does not lock properly with dark birds (happened to me many times with coots)...
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    Quote Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi View Post
    very nice portrait, good exposure and nice HA. I am OK with shallow DOF, I might be mistaken but to my eyes the sharpest focus appears to be on the beak as opposed to the eye. I know you put the focus on the eye but I have seen sometimes my camera does not lock properly with dark birds (happened to me many times with coots)...
    With the head angled slightly towards us the eye and the bill are pretty much on the same plane. That's one reason I love that head angle. But IAC, my eyes are just not that good anymore....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    With the head angled slightly towards us the eye and the bill are pretty much on the same plane. That's one reason I love that head angle. But IAC, my eyes are just not that good anymore....
    that makes sense, I think the bill has more texture and gives the impression of being sharper. I used a gradient filter to selectively sharpen the eye area, I think this equalizes the visual sharpness between eye and beak. made a tad brighter too. WDYT?


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    Lifetime Member gail bisson's Avatar
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    I really like what Arash did. What is a gradient filter?
    Gail

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    Thanks Arash. The eye is sharper in your repost. Like Gail, I would love to know how you used the gradient filter here. I have never been able to understand the use of gradient filters. I know what they are supposed to do; when I have tried them, I cannot get them to work.....
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    Lovely colours and excellent exposure control. Shallow DOF really hurts this image. Doesn't look like there was a need for such fast shutter speed but certainly smaller aperture like f13 or f14 which could help the DOF.

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    Artie:

    Its interesting that the eye in pane #1 is def. sharper to me than in pane #13. I wonder if between the noise reduction and reposting that you lost a bit there. It is so easy to fix one problem and cause another as you continue to work on an image.

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    Great portrait with beautiful details, Arthur.

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    A wonderfull image . I love BG and HA. Arash repost do it even better.

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    Nice image. I'm a retired professional photographer have done fashion photography and food photography. Bird photography is very difficult because you can't pose the Bird!!! You also don't have a lot of time to shoot. Composition is instinctive and instant. Arthur is one of the best at instant composition and seeing light. I'm amazed at his instant composition. Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Thanks Arash. The eye is sharper in your repost. Like Gail, I would love to know how you used the gradient filter here. I have never been able to understand the use of gradient filters. I know what they are supposed to do; when I have tried them, I cannot get them to work.....
    Thanks Artie
    I first selected the head with the lasso tool then duplicated the BG layer. Clicked layer-->layer mask-->reveal selection. This makes a layer mask from the selection, then with the head still selected I clicked on the mask in the layer's palette. I used the Gradient tool to fill the mask from the eye to the beak (eye=white, beak=black) then I used smart sharpen radius 0.5 amount 50

    hope it helps
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    I realize that I am a little late to the party. First of all, love your subject with that pose and BG. The DOF doesn't bother me but, if you had had more time, I am confident you would have tried more DOF. I like my blacks black as well, but I would like to see more details in the lower cheek.
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    Hi Artie, I like your exposure on both blacks and whites, and I do like the detail and hint of pink on the beak. That deep blue sea BG is a killer.

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    Great detail and exposure Artie. I have one question. Would a catchlight be appropriate to add to this species ? I always thought birds with dark eyes seem to need some kind of catchlight in their pupil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Hi Jim. Thank you sir. The BKGR certainly is noisy. Remember that when we exposure properly for the WHITEs the MIDDLE/DARKS are well more than a stop under-exposed.... !
    I do not recommend trying to expose for detail in the whites in-camera, for the exact reason you state above. It is more prudent in the digital world to push the whites just to the point of RGB clipping, as this will move the whole image histogram to the right, making the blacks in effect brighter, not darker. Thereafter, select only the highlights and use post-production techniques to render all the detail you desire in the highlights. FYI- shooting in this manner noise is almost never an issue.

    Best Amigo,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Glatzer View Post
    I do not recommend trying to expose for detail in the whites in-camera, for the exact reason you state above. It is more prudent in the digital world to push the whites just to the point of RGB clipping, as this will move the whole image histogram to the right, making the blacks in effect brighter, not darker. Thereafter, select only the highlights and use post-production techniques to render all the detail you desire in the highlights. FYI- shooting in this manner noise is almost never an issue
    .
    Excellent input Chas. This is exactly how I expose my images - always push the histogram to the right until the brightest areas start to scream....
    In post, I pull it down, get beautiful details in the blacks and very little if any noise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Glatzer View Post
    I do not recommend trying to expose for detail in the whites in-camera, for the exact reason you state above. It is more prudent in the digital world to push the whites just to the point of RGB clipping, as this will move the whole image histogram to the right, making the blacks in effect brighter, not darker. Thereafter, select only the highlights and use post-production techniques to render all the detail you desire in the highlights. FYI- shooting in this manner noise is almost never an issue.Best Amigo, Chas in YNP for another 10 days with limited e mail.
    Amigo. That is exactly what I do--and I am pretty sure that you know that--and is what I have been teaching folks to do for about six years. This was a somewhat strange situation as I had two previously rain-soaked MIV bodies that had no functioning rear LCD thus no histogram. At most the WHITEs here are 1/3 under. I just checked a similar original; the WHITEs opened in ACR with a tiny bit of clipping.

    So when I say "expose for the WHITEs" I assume that folks understand that I am still pushing them to the right. And in that case, the middles and dark tones are still getting less light than they would if we were creating an image with only middle and dark tones.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Stout View Post
    Artie:

    Its interesting that the eye in pane #1 is def. sharper to me than in pane #13. I wonder if between the noise reduction and reposting that you lost a bit there. It is so easy to fix one problem and cause another as you continue to work on an image.

    Cheers

    Randy
    Strange indeed as there was no NR applied to the bird....
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  38. #38
    BPN Viewer Charles Glatzer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    So when I say "expose for the WHITEs" I assume that folks understand that I am still pushing them to the right.
    Artie,

    My comments were based on what you had written, and as the original image appears as posted.
    I do not think your assumption that folks fully understood your original statement is correct.
    I and others thank you for the clarification above.

    I have seen far too many so-called sealed Pro bodies on both teams go down over the years in inclement weather.

    Best,

    Chas
    Last edited by Charles Glatzer; 02-03-2012 at 11:02 AM.

  39. #39
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    Just as Marina, I am coming late to the party.

    This image clearly represents Arthur's style, the whites and blacks together are hard to render, or at least for me, but in this image you have done a great job. I am with Randy about the white point on the beak, but that is a super easy fix. To me, what really would improve this portrait is a catch light, again, that's not a brainer but I am not familiar with this species so I will settle with what I see.

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