Number 9,000 Revisited: Opinions Wanted

[Doug Brown]

I posted a battling Sandhill Crane image for my 9,000th post, and it was well received on BPN. I posted the same image on another forum, and it was suggested that I try out a FF version of the shot. Here is what I came up with. Which version do you prefer and why?

[Doug Brown]

Here's my original crop for comparison.

[Ofer Levy]

I much prefer the cropped image. The story in this image IMHO is the battling cranes so you need to emphasize this. The other cranes don't add that much to justify showing them on half of the image. Just one small thing - in the cropped image I would prefer to see some more room at the bottom as in this repost. It will also help to present it in a less squarish crop.

[Grace Scalzo]

It is always a bonus when you can get two great images from one. I like them both but prefer the FF version. The lighting in it is so dramatic with the battling cranes leaping into the light and the cheering section in the shadows. I find myself getting much more involved with the action in the FF image. Wish for a tiny smidge more at the bottom, but a very minor point.

[dankearl]

I like the new one better, the onlookers are great, a sort of back alley fight, and more sense of the environment.
Really nice photo, sort of dark and foreboding, a sense of action and intensity.

[Alan Lillich]

Doug,

I definitely prefer the full image, it shows so much more of the scene, and does that in a great way. It tells a richer and more complete story. The light on the jumpers while the onlookers are in shadow is wonderful. So too is the foreground shadow and background light. You've been on quite a roll with intriguing light this year. Your hummingbird accident, the two recent cranes at sunset, now this repost - some of the most memorable photos I've seen lately.

thanks for the inspiration,
Alan

[Daniel Cadieux]

Wow Doug, I really love the full frame one!!! The others have expressed some excellent reasons for it, and I am of the same boat. I only find the "spectators" perhaps a little too blue, and wish for a bit more room below for the bottom bird's feet. Quite memorable.

P.S. I like the cropped "battle only" version too but they both emit different sensations to the viewer.

[Dan Busby]

Doug - I doubt the other forum people knew what was lurking outside the initial frame but I like the FF better. Although I loved the first post, now that you have made us decide between two different images it gives an option and chance to compare against each other. There is more story in the second version. The four members of the peanut gallery cheering on the two fighters is to die for. One of them even seems to be cheering them on and all are really focussed on the fighters. The fact that the other four birds are more blue even adds to the effect of audience vs ring fighters. Only thing I suggest is to add some canvas at the bottom so the yelling bird's feet are not so close to the bottom. Fantastic image.

[Cheryl Arena Molennor]

I like both BUT I wish at least one of the other cranes was paying attention to the fight. It almost makes it like 2 separate images with the way the other cranes are almost in another world. That being said I like the old post better.. Great image BTW

[Fred Canter]

I much prefer the cropped version, and Ofer's repost is a nice adjustment.
I agree it appears there are two separate images, if the birds in the back had been watching the fight the uncropped version would have worked very well.

[Dan Brown]

Two winners, Doug! I like them both but the FF image really tells a bigger story. Great stuff as usual!

[Stu Bowie]

Hi Doug, Im sticking with my original as thats the first post you shared with us. There is so much focussed action on the two fighting cranes, that the other 'spectators' dont add. Now this in full landscape, placed centrally, with space on both sides... do I have to say how it would look.

[RakeshDhareshwar]

The cropped version is definitely more dramatic !! Awesome light and Ofer's repost takes it over the top !!

[gail bisson]

I much prefer the OP. The spectator birds distract from the image. The dramatic difference in lighting is too much for me. I agree with Fred-it is like 2 pictures. In the FF the cranes' feet are too close to the edge as well.
Gail

[Joe Senzatimore]

Doug,
I LOVE the full frame version. The inter-action between the fighters and the on lookers is very dramatic and "telling". This is not to say that I dis-like the cropped version. It too was a wonderful capture in great light and exposed well. It is a behavior I wanted to capture while in Bosque , but it wasn't in the cards for me this trip. Big congrats on 2 fine images.

[Nancy Bell]

My vote is for the cropped version, focused on the action. I really don't think those other cranes are paying much attention and for me, draws my eye away from the action. I do prefer Ofer's repost with a bit more room at the bottom.

[Gen Benjamin]

I love both images but if I could choose only one it would be the full frame. As Joe mentioned having the other birds in the image give this image real story telling, reminds me of boxers in the ring and the onlookers.
Light and action are perfect. The cropped version all though wonderful is a bit tight for me but I would be very happy to say it was mine. Nice job on both
Gen

[Jay Gould]

First, and foremost, you just want another bottle of fine wine!!

For me, definitely the FF. I really like and wish I could listen in on the discussion of the "others" watching the fight. Great plus to have the beak of the front "other" open.

Well done.

[Steven Kersting]

As posted I prefer the cropped version. But if you just flipped the FF version horizontally I would prefer it.
Because we tend to "read" pictures left to right and front to back having the spectator birds at left front throws it off and draws too much attention away from the "subject".

[Robert Holguin]

Two amazing shots, but for me I like the cropped version a lot more. I like the focus on the fighters rather than the spectators.
I agree Ofre's repost really added to the comp.
Either way well done.

[Jonathan Ashton]

I really like both images, it depends for what purpose you present the image. If it was for a competition then the two isolated ones if it was within a slide show I would say the one with four cranes. When I look at the full frame I am blown away but when I see the repost, hey I am blown far away!!

[Kaustubh Deshpande]

Doug, tough to choose....both are great. I like the spectators in the FF version. One of them is even cheering :-) only thing missing is a boxing ring.

[Doug Brown]

Great thread so far! Thank you all for taking the time to explain why you prefer one version over the other!

[Jim Crosswell]

I prefer the original post as well and how it isolates the fight scene. If the other cranes were actually spectators it would add to the FF image.

[Grace Scalzo]

Doug, we are waiting your final verdict..... I'm curious.....

[Doug Brown]

Doug, we are waiting your final verdict..... I'm curious.....

Fair enough Grace. I've gotten some excellent opinions from everyone who commented! I think Ofer's crop, by including more canvas at the bottom, conveys a better sense of the height of the jump. But it feels a little tight on the sides. I'm not normally a fan of square crops, but it may work here; Ofer's top and bottom, and my sides.

Now onto the FF version. Even though the birds in the shadows don't seem to be watching the action, they do add a sense of place and time to the image. Their shadowed forms contrast nicely with the two combatants who have leaped up into the early morning sun to do battle. Someone on the other forum commented that the image 'reads' better with the 4 onlooker Cranes, and I can see his/her point. You start out on the left of the frame and follow the trailing water up to the sunlit action. In an ideal world I'd have more canvas at the bottom of the frame, and I may yet add some.

After giving this a lot of thought, I'm still struggling to pick a winner. Both versions have their strong points, but both also have their deficiencies. In the final analysis, if I can add canvas at the bottom and make it look good, I'm casting my vote for the FF version.

[arash_hazeghi]

For me the FF is the winner, the arrangement of the other cranes and the fact that they are looking at the flight makes it a very nice behavioral photo.

[Geir Jensen]

It is an amazing picture. The first picture I like most. The birds left in the cold light and the birds right in warm golden light. Birds fighting. Comp is great. In my eyes this is the nature photography at a high level.

Have a Merry Christmas greeting Geir Jensen

[Greg Basco]

Doug, you know my vote -- full-frame!

Cheers,
Greg

[Grace Scalzo]

Thanks for sharing your thougths with us Doug. I have learned alot from your post and the resulting discussion. Both versions are delights for any serious bird photographer to view and appreciate.

[Steven Kersting]

What about this version?

[Doug Brown]

The flipped version doesn't work for me because the eye is accustomed to moving from left to right, as when reading a book. Plus I've looked at it so many times the other way that I've kind of gotten used to it.

[Andrew Merwin]

Now onto the FF version. Even though the birds in the shadows don't seem to be watching the action, they do add a sense of place and time to the image. Their shadowed forms contrast nicely with the two combatants who have leaped up into the early morning sun to do battle. Someone on the other forum commented that the image 'reads' better with the 4 onlooker Cranes, and I can see his/her point. You start out on the left of the frame and follow the trailing water up to the sunlit action. In an ideal world I'd have more canvas at the bottom of the frame, and I may yet add some.

Doug,
I agree with your thoughts above & I prefer the FF version. For me, the onlooking cranes add a sense of reality to the image. Cranes live in flocks & are seldom seen in isolation. The 4 additional cranes show this reality.

[Ofer Levy]

Interestingly, I actually find the flipped image quite pleasing. In this version my eyes tend to start from the action (left), go to the spectators (right) and then I can concentrate on the combatants without moving back to the spectators. In the original FF version on the other hand, my eyes start from the spectators (left), move to the combatants (right) and then keep going back and forth which I find problematic....
So interesting!!!
If I have to choose between the cropped image and the flipped FF - I would take the flipped FF for sure!

[Steven Kersting]

Interestingly, I actually find the flipped image quite pleasing. In this version my eyes tend to start from the action (left), go to the spectators (right) and then I can concentrate on the combatants without moving back to the spectators. In the original FF version on the other hand, my eyes start from the spectators (left), move to the combatants (right) and then keep going back and forth which I find problematic....
So interesting!!!
If I have to choose between the cropped image and the flipped FF - I would take the flipped FF for sure!

Exactly the feeling I get.
With the original version I think it's due to "skimming" the spectators when reading left to rt, and "feeling" you missed something there when you get to the combatants. Your eye goes back to the spectators, but they are not the dominant subject so your eye continues to jump back and forth.

In the flipped version it is similar except when you get to the spectators on the rt you are at "the end" and give them adequate consideration/ processing so that when your eye moves back to the subject it settles there.

Of course, this may be different for different viewers, but I think it will be the "common" result.

[Ofer Levy]

Exactly the feeling I get.
With the original version I think it's due to "skimming" the spectators when reading left to rt, and "feeling" you missed something there when you get to the combatants. Your eye goes back to the spectators, but they are not the dominant subject so your eye continues to jump back and forth.

In the flipped version it is similar except when you get to the spectators on the rt you are at "the end" and give them adequate consideration/ processing so that when your eye moves back to the subject it settles there.

Of course, this may be different for different viewers, but I think it will be the "common" result.

Pretty amazing stuff!!!

[Kaustubh Deshpande]

agree with Steven's reasoning. There are many many times that I try horizontal flip on my images. At times, it does make a difference. I think it does here. But key is to do it when you are doing the first edit. If I revisit an image I have seen many times, the flipped almost never seems right. On the flip side , I have some flipped images that I have got used to...now when I go back to the orig, I find that one odd.

[Rod Warnock]

Doug: Like both equally but for differing reasons. The two birds because of great detail, colour and it portrays the intensity of conflict...magic. The full frame shot as it better portrays the totality of what was before you..habitat the on lookers also support the conflict ... I am pleased that you cloned out the additional two oof birds that ere in the left background which accompanied another posting by you.
A magic couple of images
TKS

Best regards
Rod Warnock

[Doug Brown]

Thanks for a very interesting discussion. Great comments from everyone!