St. Louis Basilica, First HDR attempt

[Jay Sheinfield]

This is my first attempt at HDR. The Image was taken at the Basilica here in St. Louis. It houses the largest indoor continuous mural in the world, or so I was told. The lighting is quite dark, with incandescent spots and some floor lamps to feature the art work. This image depicts the ornate ceiling of one of the four Chapels that flank the main hall.

Nikon D3s
112mm
f/14
ISO 400
Tripod

5-stitch image each +/- 1 stop. NIK HDR Efex Pro. I used the Natural Processing Setting. Lots of light balancing to highlight/lowlight architectural elements. Comments, please.............

[Steve Adkins]

This is outstanding, Jay. The competing, receding arches are sure an attractive composition for me. Not to mention the beautiful art. The bottom partial, flat pictorial element is a nice counterpoint to the ceiling patterns. Excellent use of HDR!

[Dennis Bishop]

I like this, Jay. You've captured it well, and I think you did a great job of processing. My philosophy in doing HDR is to get a good histogram rather than to achieve a strange effect, and you've done that very well. The darkness of the foreground is probably a matter of personal taste. I think it helps to frame the rest of the image nicely. And, although it reveals detail, it doesn't compete with the rest of the image.

[Robert Amoruso]

Jay,

I like the composition though I feel a bit more room on the left and top was needed to eliminate the clipping of the column and arch.

I felt the image could use some adjustments to the light so in the repost I used PS Shadow/Highlights to open up shadows and lower highlights. Tonal width was 35 for shadows and 65 for highlights. I then adjusted amount. I wanted to retain darker FG and brighter BG but make the transition less. I then sharpened.

[Jay Sheinfield]

Hi Robert,

Thanks for the great feedback. I'll likely have to go back and retake the image and try for comp you recommended. I like your light balancing. Just as an alternative rather than trash the image, I tried a tight crop rather than the clipping of the OP. Does this work?. I didn't do any color adjusting..just want ed feedback on the crop.

[Andrew Aveley]

A great natural looking HDR is first prize :) like the adjustments and suggestion

[Jay Sheinfield]

A great natural looking HDR is first prize :) like the adjustments and suggestion

Thanks, Andrew. I couldn't tell if you were commenting on the tighter crop, or agreeing that more room on the left and top would have been optimal.

[Andrew Aveley]

sorry man , i was referring to processing.the crop for me is either or...not enough knowledge on this type of interior shot so both work for me :)

[Dennis Bishop]

Hi Robert,

Thanks for the great feedback. I'll likely have to go back and retake the image and try for comp you recommended. I like your light balancing. Just as an alternative rather than trash the image, I tried a tight crop rather than the clipping of the OP. Does this work?. I didn't do any color adjusting..just want ed feedback on the crop.

One crop or the other is likely pretty much of a personal preference in this case. I prefer the crop of the original post because it shows why that element on the extreme right is there.

[Jay Gould]

Robert's RP is the winner of an already great image.

[Jay Sheinfield]

Dennis, thanks for the feedback. I'll stick with OP crop until I can retake the image.


Jay, I appreciate the comments.

[Roman Kurywczak]

Hey Jay,
I like both versions....but agree with a bit more room up top. The lightening was a big difference maker and was a great final touch! Knowing how dark these type of locations can be.....you may want to bracket a bit more! Given the Nikon D3.......go 9, even if you don't use all and it doesn't have to be balanced! Many times it is either weighted more to dark images (if I have lightbulbs and such) or more to the dark areas if there is more detailess shadows. Something to keep in mind for next trip.

[Jay Sheinfield]

Hey Jay,
I like both versions....but agree with a bit more room up top. The lightening was a big difference maker and was a great final touch! Knowing how dark these type of locations can be.....you may want to bracket a bit more! Given the Nikon D3.......go 9, even if you don't use all and it doesn't have to be balanced! Many times it is either weighted more to dark images (if I have lightbulbs and such) or more to the dark areas if there is more detailess shadows. Something to keep in mind for next trip.

Thanks Roman, man am I lost in the HDR stuff! The weighting toward, dark images, or dark shadows, may do the trick. Is there a link or something that help with which images to use or not use?

[Dennis Bishop]

Thanks Roman, man am I lost in the HDR stuff! The weighting toward, dark images, or dark shadows, may do the trick. Is there a link or something that help with which images to use or not use?

Experience is a great teacher with HDR. Most of my images start out as HDRs, so I don't even have to think much about it, anymore. I'd suggest taking a series of images with different extremes in tone -- some with wide extremes, some not -- all with nine exposures. Upon looking at the original exposures, you should get a feel for which ones not to use. Some may be so far over or underexposed they're going to be useless. Think of the software as pulling out the properly exposed parts from each. That's probably an oversimplification, but not too far from what's going to happen. Try processing with just the ones that seem like they have something to offer and, again, with the addition of some that seem useless. You'll pretty soon get a feel for it.

Depending on the lighting, you might want to try some exposure compensation while taking the bracketed shots. The D3s will keep track of all that for you. (I did that, yesterday, for some pumpkins wearing the first snow of the season. If I hadn't, there probably wouldn't have been enough range -- even with nine shots -- to avoid clipping either the shadows or highlights. Take the first shot without bracketing and look at the histogram. That'll be a good guide. Just remember, you're going to be moving the exposure both ways from there, so it doesn't matter that it shows some clipping.

When I'm shooting in a reasonable level of light, I use one of the continuous shot modes. Just hold down the shutter release until the shots are done. It'll stop when it gets to the number of brackets you've specified. When the scene is dark, overall, I shoot in single shot mode and count the exposures. The longer exposures can take so long when it's dark that you might not be sure when they're all been taken. It's way to hard to try counting the exposures in continuous firing mode.

[Jay Sheinfield]

Experience is a great teacher with HDR. Most of my images start out as HDRs, so I don't even have to think much about it, anymore. I'd suggest taking a series of images with different extremes in tone -- some with wide extremes, some not -- all with nine exposures. Upon looking at the original exposures, you should get a feel for which ones not to use. Some may be so far over or underexposed they're going to be useless. Think of the software as pulling out the properly exposed parts from each. That's probably an oversimplification, but not too far from what's going to happen. Try processing with just the ones that seem like they have something to offer and, again, with the addition of some that seem useless. You'll pretty soon get a feel for it.

Depending on the lighting, you might want to try some exposure compensation while taking the bracketed shots. The D3s will keep track of all that for you. (I did that, yesterday, for some pumpkins wearing the first snow of the season. If I hadn't, there probably wouldn't have been enough range -- even with nine shots -- to avoid clipping either the shadows or highlights. Take the first shot without bracketing and look at the histogram. That'll be a good guide. Just remember, you're going to be moving the exposure both ways from there, so it doesn't matter that it shows some clipping.

When I'm shooting in a reasonable level of light, I use one of the continuous shot modes. Just hold down the shutter release until the shots are done. It'll stop when it gets to the number of brackets you've specified. When the scene is dark, overall, I shoot in single shot mode and count the exposures. The longer exposures can take so long when it's dark that you might not be sure when they're all been taken. It's way to hard to try counting the exposures in continuous firing mode.

Hey, Dennis............... very useful feedback..........I appreciate you taking the time to help.

[Jerry van Dijk]

Hi Jay, great I for composition on this one. I actually like that the column is clipped, including wall to the left would have distracted from the rest of the image IMO. Clipping of the arch in the darker original is not a dealbreaker, but more conspicuous in Roberts lighter repost. I like the darker OP, but also like what Robert did to the colors. I'm not too fond of the third version.

[Jay Sheinfield]

Hi Jay, great I for composition on this one. I actually like that the column is clipped, including wall to the left would have distracted from the rest of the image IMO. Clipping of the arch in the darker original is not a dealbreaker, but more conspicuous in Roberts lighter repost. I like the darker OP, but also like what Robert did to the colors. I'm not too fond of the third version.

Thanks, Jerry. I was just fishing on the third version. I agree that including the left column would have changed the comp. The top clip was just a miss on my part. I'm going back to give it another try.

[Andrew McLachlan]

Hi Jay, I like the crop in the first post, but agree a little more room would be nice. Robert's repost adds some extra punch to the image. Just a thought if you go back to shoot, but how about an abstract HDR of the ceiling arches and then you could do an altenate version with Fractalius too

[Jay Sheinfield]

Hi Jay, I like the crop in the first post, but agree a little more room would be nice. Robert's repost adds some extra punch to the image. Just a thought if you go back to shoot, but how about an abstract HDR of the ceiling arches and then you could do an altenate version with Fractalius too

Andrew, Thanks. I'm so new to HDR I haven't tried any type of abstract, but I may now give it a try. I've never done a FRAC I like............

[Steve Bein]

outstanding image. The reposts were great and educational. You did a great job.
Keep it up.