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Thread: Siverton, CO Alley; Obama House

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    Default Siverton, CO Alley; Obama House

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    I used Simplify a bit grunge, and Tonal Contrast to process this image. I wanted a lot of detail, yet a light and almost "cartoonish" feel. Finally, I bathed the entire image in soft directional light.. Comments welcome...........

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    Roman Kurywczak
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    Another really nice one Jay! Very strong lines leading you trhough the scene with great colors and a very nice look to the filtering!

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    Jay, you've really developed a style that is coming to maturity for you...strong image, wonderful processing...your images have this unique blend of the real and surreal that is so striking. When you get back we need to sit down over a brew or two or three and talk processing! Nice job on this one...looks like you're having a lot of fun out west!

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    Really nice Jay. Almost a watercolor look to this. I love the effect on the sky!

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    Hi Jay, love the treatment and the color here. Beautiful work!!!

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    Brendan Dozier
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    There is a lot for the eye to enjoy with all the different elements, colors, and textures. Nicely seen, composed, and just the right amount of filtering to give it that painterly quality.

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    Jay, I think this image has fun written all over it. Great looking comp. and the processing steps you took really enhanced the scene. Love it!

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    Thanks everyone........

    Roman, I remembered your advise from Landscape Forum on fence posts; to include the base of the post.

    John, looking forward to the beers.....Thanks

    Maureen, thanks! I was after a painterly look.

    Andrew and Brendan, thanks......appreciate your feedback on the treatment.

    Denise, If you saw fun, then I'll take it!

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Love the effect and the watercolor look but I will be the odd person out here; a strong vertical line in the center of a horizontal frame (the telephone pole next to the house in this image) are almost invariably image wreckers....They are usually to be avoided them at all costs if possible (though there are exceptions).
    Last edited by Arthur Morris; 09-15-2011 at 08:25 AM.
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    Hi Art, Well, I'm here to learn. By image wrecker, does the vertical pole split the image? Just trying to understand specifically, why it doesn't work.................Thanks.

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    Hi Art,

    I've looked at this image if it were not my own, as best I can. Honestly, it doesn't bug me. I see the group of telephone poles as another leading line in the image. I actually like the fabric of feeder electrical lines from the front pole to the surrounding houses as a unifying element. I could make a case for lightening it up, or perhaps adding canvass to the right to get it a bit more off-center. I've done some reading on the subject, and I assume you are referring to the pole as "splitting" the image. Now, I'm pretty inexperienced, and I've learned something here.......... watch the verticals! So your feedback is important, and something I will not likely forget. Perhaps this is a matter of degree. In balance, the enjoyment I get from this image outweighs the rest. I always look forward to your comments. Further thoughts on this are welcome from you and from others.
    Last edited by Jay Sheinfield; 09-08-2011 at 03:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Sheinfield View Post
    Hi Art,

    I've looked at this image if it were not my own, as best I can. Honestly, it doesn't bug me. I see the group of telephone poles as another leading line in the image. I actually like the fabric of feeder electrical lines from the front pole to the surrounding houses as a unifying element. I could make a case for lightening it up, or perhaps adding canvass to the right to get it a bit more off-center. I've done some reading on the subject, and I assume you are referring to the pole as "splitting" the image. Now, I'm pretty inexperienced, and I've learned something here.......... watch the verticals! So your feedback is important, and something I will not likely forget. Perhaps this is a matter of degree. In balance, the enjoyment I get from this image outweighs the rest. I always look forward to your comments. Further thoughts on this are welcome from you and from others.
    For me, strong verticals in the center of horizontal frames are almost always image wreckers. Hard to say exactly why or to explain it but I will try: they cut the frame in two. For me, they destroy the compositional balance of an image. Always. Some of the image design principles that I have developed and espoused over the years cannot be found in any books (other than in those I have written). The folks who responded above either are fine with the pole or were being nice. The latter is a common problem here at BPN. I try to combat it by being 100% honest at all times will striving to be as gentle as possible. By leading by example if you will. Do note that I feel that strong verticals in the center of vertically formatted images are actually a plus.
    Last edited by Arthur Morris; 09-15-2011 at 08:26 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    For me, strong verticals in the center of horizontal frames have always been image wreckers. Hard to say exactly why or to explain it but I will try: they cut the frame in two. For me, they destroy the compositional balance of an image. Always. Some of the image design principles that I have developed and espoused over the years cannot be found in any books (other than in those I have written). The folks who responded above either are fine with the pole or were being nice. The latter is a common problem here at BPN. I try to combat it by being 100% honest at all times will striving to be as gentle as possible. By leading by example if you will. Do note that I feel that strong verticals in the center of vertically formatted images are actually a plus.
    A couple of thoughts. "Urbanscapes" are becoming a passion of mine. Way more complex that my usual fair. I honestly didn't know what to do with telephone poles and other strong vertical elements, so I'm experimenting, and posting for feedback. There's more to come as I learn to "see" better. I guarantee I will see future images a bit different as a result of this conversation. I read one of your books, but I missed this. I also noted the preference of strong verticals in a vertically formatted image, during my reading. On the feedback, I want and expect honest constructive feedback. Personally speaking, I don't post to "display" my work, I post for the feedback. So Art, keep the feedback coming.......I for one, like it!

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    Will do. YAW. I am not sure if the principle we are discussing here is even in ABP II. I will check right now....

    Ah, from page 166 of ABP II:

    "While a vertical line near either frame edge may work to balance a horizontal composition or to set off a subject, and vertical lines on each side of an image may serve to frame the subject, placing a strong vertical line in or near the center of a horizontal frame should almost always be avoided. Photographers need to take great care to keep vertical lines away from the centers of their horizontal compositions as the viewer’s eye tends to be drawn there and only there."

    This just a snippet of the wealth of info in the 916 page e-book....
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    Hi Jay and Art;

    I've been following your conversation over the last few panes with interest...I hope you don't mind if I chime in.

    Art, in this image the vertical line is extended to the bottom of the frame by the right hand side of the road, creating an edge-to-edge line; if the road wasn't there..or flowed through the image a bit differently...would the telephone pole still be as big an issue? Is it that the line gives the impression of going top-to-bottom in the frame since the road and the telephone pole align or simply the pole itself? Or is it both? (I hope the question(s) makes sense.)

    Jay, I like the image...but as I read your conversation with Art and I kept going back to the image, looking at it, back to the conversation and then looking some more, I did see how it split the frame. If you cropped it a bit...from the bottom to just where the grass begins between the ruts in the road...and then from the RHS to just to the left of the blue sign on the building...it throws the line off center..what do you think? Just thinking out loud...this is an interesting conversation!

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    John, Everyone is welcome :). The more the merrier. The line of the road is a non-issue because the pole is so large and dark. Slammed me right in the face.
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    Nice image and application, John.

    Two things strike me, though I like the effect and scene you've captured.

    First, being a "ghost town like image" I would prefer not to see the PPs at all. I like the old buildings, but modern technology to me takes from the image. My vision, doesn't have to be yours. But that was one thing I tried to avoid in shooting in the past on my trips through the west. Great buildings with color and texture, but hated the PPs that were usualy in the image area.

    Second. I personally would like to see the tops of the mountain. Again, my vision. Just a suggestion, as the other one, but ... Y I Y V.

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    Hi John, There are a number of things I can do to reduce the "pole effect", as you mentioned a few. It doesn't really change the fundamental of Art's point. Still looking forward to those beers.

    Mark, I understand and agree with your modern technology view. However, I still like alleys and alleys have phone poles, so I go vertical or "know when not to take the shot" as Art says in his book.
    Regarding mountain tops, I like them also. However, the lens choice that gave me this shot filled the BG with hills.......a wider lens brought in too much, perhaps a vertical would have been the way to go.

    Art, it was a beneficial conversation. Thanks.

    Everyone, thank you for your feedback...........
    Last edited by Arthur Morris; 09-08-2011 at 04:37 PM.

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    Susan Candelario
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    Hey Jay,
    I just love, love, love your processing style and the effects you achieved with it. Very playful feel to it & very nice colorful image. You have conveyed exactly the feeling you set out to show us with this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan Candelario View Post
    Hey Jay,
    I just love, love, love your processing style and the effects you achieved with it. Very playful feel to it & very nice colorful image. You have conveyed exactly the feeling you set out to show us with this one.
    Hi Susan, Thank you so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Sheinfield View Post
    Hi John, There are a number of things I can do to reduce the "pole effect", as you mentioned a few. It doesn't really change the fundamental of Art's point. Still looking forward to those beers.

    Mark, I understand and agree with your modern technology view. However, I still like alleys and alleys have phone poles, so I go vertical or "know when not to take the shot" as Art says in his book.
    Regarding mountain tops, I like them also. However, the lens choice that gave me this shot filled the BG with hills.......a wider lens brought in too much, perhaps a vertical would have been the way to go.

    Art, it was a beneficial conversation. Thanks.

    Everyone, thank you for your feedback...........
    As I wrote in ABP II, the trick is to get the strong vertical out of the center of horizontal frames, to use them on the sides as frames or borders for the image.
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    Art, I understand, although my response to Mark doesn't read like I do, it was poorly worded. I have over thirty shots of that alley and when I return home hopefully one will hit the mark. If so, I will be posting in a hurry. If not, a lesson learned.

    I would like to ask for your indulgence one more time to look at a previous posting entitled "Silverton Hostel, Welcome!". Again a mix of horizontal and vertical lines in a Horizontal frame. Your comments would be most welcome. It's about 25 thumbnails down this page.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan Candelario View Post
    Hey Jay,
    I just love, love, love your processing style and the effects you achieved with it. Very playful feel to it & very nice colorful image. You have conveyed exactly the feeling you set out to show us with this one.

    Hi Susan, Thank you so much!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Sheinfield View Post
    Art, I understand, although my response to Mark doesn't read like I do, it was poorly worded. I have over thirty shots of that alley and when I return home hopefully one will hit the mark. If so, I will be posting in a hurry. If not, a lesson learned.

    I would like to ask for your indulgence one more time to look at a previous posting entitled "Silverton Hostel, Welcome!". Again a mix of horizontal and vertical lines in a Horizontal frame. Your comments would be most welcome. It's about 25 thumbnails down this page.
    Done. There is no comparing the two images.
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    Jay, I'm late to the show but enjoyed the chain of comments. I love the bright colors and look you've created. There are so many things to gaze at - your filtering is superb
    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly" - The Little Prince

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    Jay.....I think you did a great job with processing the colors in this image. When I look at the poles I am drawn into the picture and down the road so they don't bother me as much as if there were only that first very dark pole breaking the image into two and being very static.

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    I just wanted to thank everyone for the feedback. It was a most interesting and provocative thread in so many ways. I learned quite a bit. I have considered all the feedback, and re-read the thread many times, including my own statements. I believe I lost my footing for a while.

    I took this image because the scene made me smile.

    Art, your passion for the art and its discipline is clear. At the end of the day, I find that I like this image. The Obama house still makes me smile. The image stands, as is.

    Thanks again, everyone.

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    Susan Candelario
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    Hey Jay,
    So glad if makes you smile as much as It did me.

    Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan Candelario View Post
    Hey Jay,
    So glad if makes you smile as much as It did me.

    Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Sheinfield View Post
    Art, your passion for the art and its discipline is clear. At the end of the day, I find that I like this image. The Obama house still makes me smile. The image stands, as is. Thanks again, everyone.
    Jay, I am of course fine with that. There is a lot that I like about it too. I no way was I ever suggesting the removal of the big dark pole in the middle.
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    Wonderful image. I like the composition a lot! Everything is in the right place. The alley with buildings and utility posts converging off center are great. The post processing complements the original image. Very well done!

    I wrote the above before reading the discussion as I like to get my thoughts down first. The pole does split the image a bit, but I like that effect. It separates the right from the left in a pleasing way, but the image as a whole remains strong.

    Interestingly enough, I prefer this image to the "Silverton Hostel."

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    Jay, I ask out of ignorance, why is this the "Obama" house?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita Bower View Post
    Wonderful image. I like the composition a lot! Everything is in the right place. The alley with buildings and utility posts converging off center are great. The post processing complements the original image. Very well done!

    I wrote the above before reading the discussion as I like to get my thoughts down first. The pole does split the image a bit, but I like that effect. It separates the right from the left in a pleasing way, but the image as a whole remains strong.

    Interestingly enough, I prefer this image to the "Silverton Hostel."
    Anita, thanks. I always look forward to your feedback.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Jay, I ask out of ignorance, why is this the "Obama" house?
    Art,

    There is a small but just barely readable "OBAMA" plaque in the URC wall of the grungy white house on the right of the telephone pole. Most folks don't notice it, also, there are several roofers working up on top left red brick building, an interesting detail I didn't notice until well into processing.

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