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Thread: Laughing Gull

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    Avian Laughing Gull

    Still trying to absorb all the necessities for a good image presentation. I really appreciate all the very generous advice and help on my first few posts.
    Didn't do anything to the bird, but darkened the background a bit, and cleaned up the beach. Didn't think I could effectively clone out that bit of seaweed, as I wouldn't know how to rebuild his foot.

    Nikon D7000, 500mm f/4, on the tripod low
    f/5.6, 1/1600, ISO 800, distance 11.9m, full frame, C&C welcome

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Quite lovely. Like the raised foot and I love Laughing Gull. Perhaps a bit lighter overall. Getting tight down on the ground might have been an option.... Head angle is pretty much perfect with the bird angled slightly towards you.
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    Lifetime Member Stu Bowie's Avatar
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    Good looking Gull Ron, and I like the walking pose with the raised foot. The grey plumage on the wing looks a bit smooth, but as you say you didnt do anything to the gull, It just seems a touch 'smooth' as if some NR were run over it.
    Last edited by Arthur Morris; 08-14-2011 at 01:42 PM.

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    Artie and Stuart, thanks so much for the feedback. I'd love to get lower, but this was taken just before my back surgery -- couldn't get down then, and still can't. I'm heading to Hawaii in a couple days, and will take a low camp stool to try to get down a bit. With the D7000 at ISO 800, I do have to do some noise reduction, but it looks pretty "smooth" in ACR with the NR off. I'm thinking it's the angle of light at 6:40 am in early April.

    Artie, I watched for Laughing Gulls especially because you mentioned them being under-appreciated in your site guide for Fort De Soto.

    Here's the same with the background and bird both brought up a little brighter.

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    Lifetime Member Doug Brown's Avatar
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    Love the head angle and the raised foot. Good points above Ron. The repost is a step in the right direction, but I'd go a little brighter still. Is the bird noise-reduced in the repost? If so, I'd like to see a version without any NR on the bird.
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    As for the spinal surgery, been there, done that: micr-discectomy in 1990: L5-S1. It turned out perfectly. I like the repost and love the raised foot. DeSoto is the place to photograph this species. When were you there? Did you have your surgery? Thanks BTW for your purchase of the site guide.
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    Thanks for looking, Doug. The NR was in ACR at 30/30 and 50/50 luminance/color. Even though I brought it to PS as a smart object, I had to rasterize to cleanup the beach. Can't get back to the NW without losing the cleanup, so that's what I did. Here's NR in ACR reduced to bare minimum, ACR sharpening at 0.5 pixels increased 50%, and the bird even brighter. The beach is a mess, but if this is a better image, I'll go back and clean it up again. It does look to me as if I've gained a little texture on the back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    As for the spinal surgery, been there, done that: micr-discectomy in 1990: L5-S1. It turned out perfectly. I like the repost and love the raised foot. DeSoto is the place to photograph this species. When were you there? Did you have your surgery? Thanks BTW for your purchase of the site guide.
    I was there April 8-17th. My son needed some help (baby-sitting, proof-reading) getting his dissertation done, so my wife and I went for the long week. Probably once-in-a-lifetime for me to get to Florida, so I rented a 500 and 1.7 TC, and spent every morning on the beach. I had a blast, and am trying to set up to do birds a little more seriously when I retire. I was reluctant to waste everyone's time on this site, but am truly grateful for the help you've all been giving me. I'm a quick learner, so hope to be less intrusive soon.

    As for the surgery, it was L4-5 fusion. I was losing all feeling (except pain) in my left leg, and this fixed it. I had it May 17, but am not supposed to be bending much for another few months.

    Glad you liked the foot. I picked this out of about 30 images just because of the foot and HA.

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    Ah, a lot more extensive than what I had. Continued good luck with your recovery.

    BTW, you are proof of the point that I make in my current blog post: if you apply yourself to digital nature photography it is not too hard to make good images.....
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    Lifetime Member Doug Brown's Avatar
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    Feather detail looks best in the last version Ron. I almost never run NR on the bird's plumage; the feathers always end up looking plasticky smooth. Hope the back is healing up well!
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    Very nice pose and settings. I agree with Doug NR has taken away the plumage details, I find the NR in ACR very poor in maintaining fine details and never use it.
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    Thanks Arash and all for taking the time. I clearly need a whole new workflow for birds, and for web presentation. You've put me well on the way to getting it established. Next time I post something, it will be better technically, and we can concentrate on the comp and subject. Any suggestions for a better tool for the kind of fine noise I see on the D7000 at higher ISO?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Sprunger View Post
    Thanks Arash and all for taking the time. I clearly need a whole new workflow for birds, and for web presentation. You've put me well on the way to getting it established. Next time I post something, it will be better technically, and we can concentrate on the comp and subject. Any suggestions for a better tool for the kind of fine noise I see on the D7000 at higher ISO?
    I never had a D7000 so I am not sure what the noise levels are like but for D700/D3/D3s/D3x the best is to use CNX2, it uses propitiatory Nikon noise reduction with excellent results. You can see some really high ISO D3S images on my smug website.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Sprunger View Post
    Thanks Arash and all for taking the time. I clearly need a whole new workflow for birds, and for web presentation. You've put me well on the way to getting it established. Next time I post something, it will be better technically, and we can concentrate on the comp and subject. Any suggestions for a better tool for the kind of fine noise I see on the D7000 at higher ISO?
    Ron, Both the original and the repost looked fine to me (as I noted previously). I use Photoshop Noise Reduction on my backgrounds only when needed and combine that with the great trick that Denise Ippolito taught me: using Blur/Surface Blur as described on page 96 of the last free Digital Basics update. (I run NR on the whole image and paint away the subject using a Layer Mask.) I prepare my JPEGs today exactly as described in Digital Basics. Folks have been telling me for years that my posted JPEGs look fantastic; there may, therefore, be any need for you to run all over the place looking for a better workflow.
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    Arash, I have a D700 with excellent (same as your D3s) high-ISO performance. I think the D7000 is comparable to my son's 5D Mk II -- needs some noise attention at 800 and up, but a really good exposure minimizes that need. I purchased CNX2 a few months back, but couldn't get comfortable with the workflow for my usual work with landscape, cars, barns, etc. I can see how it might work well for the bird/web workflow and will spend some time with it when I get back from Hawaii. Thanks for the tip.

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    Artie, PS5 NR masked from the subject is what I came up with last night in response to Doug's observation. And I'm using your F2 Action, as described on this site, to create the JPEG. I'll take a look at the blur/surface blur thing as well. Believe me, this workflow is quite different from what I use to prepare a 16x32 landscape print, or a 16x20 portrait. But mastering new skills is the essence of being alive, I think. Thanks for the help.

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    You are welcome and good luck. Post any new questions here and shoot me an e-mail with a link :)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Ron, Both the original and the repost looked fine to me (as I noted previously). I use Photoshop Noise Reduction on my backgrounds only when needed and combine that with the great trick that Denise Ippolito taught me: using Blur/Surface Blur as described on page 96 of the last free Digital Basics update. (I run NR on the whole image and paint away the subject using a Layer Mask.) I prepare my JPEGs today exactly as described in Digital Basics. Folks have been telling me for years that my posted JPEGs look fantastic; there may, therefore, be any need for you to run all over the place looking for a better workflow.
    Artie, I am surprised you don't see the lack of details from NR, it is quite obvious as pointed out by Doug and Stu as well.
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 08-15-2011 at 03:07 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Sprunger View Post
    Arash, I have a D700 with excellent (same as your D3s) high-ISO performance. I think the D7000 is comparable to my son's 5D Mk II -- needs some noise attention at 800 and up, but a really good exposure minimizes that need. I purchased CNX2 a few months back, but couldn't get comfortable with the workflow for my usual work with landscape, cars, barns, etc. I can see how it might work well for the bird/web workflow and will spend some time with it when I get back from Hawaii. Thanks for the tip.
    Ron,
    I think 5D2 is actually very close to D700 in terms of visible output noise, if you use the right method for processing . I have posted some 3200 ISO shots with the 5D2 that are quite impressive at large size but they require advanced processing that is tailored for every file.

    D3S beats everything else though (it's a better sensor than the D700/D3), for D3s I actually don't run any NR unless I pull up the exposure at very high ISO, if noise starts to appear.

    As for CNX2, unfortunately the interface is not great because they outsourced development to a third party but the image quality is superb, and you also need a fast computer to run it efficiently. There are some really good video tutorials by Nikon rep on B&H website (search under videos) that teaches all the basics. check it out.

    If you want to know about my CNX2 workflow send me a PM, I'll show a bunch of tricks for NR

    good luck
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 08-15-2011 at 03:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi View Post
    Artie, I am surprised you don't see the lack of details from NR, it is quite obvious as pointed out by Doug and Stu as well.
    Arash, As I have said often here and elsewhere, I have a great eye for shape and form, a good-enough eye for color, and a very poor eye for fine detail. I did not say that I do not see a lack of fine detail in the gull's feathers but upon taking a closer look I simply do not :). What I did say is that with my workflow I run NR only on the BKGR and never on the bird (so that others with sharpener eyes than mine may see that fine detail is maintained in the feathers).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Arash, As I have said often here and elsewhere, I have a great eye for shape and form, a good-enough eye for color, and a very poor eye for fine detail. I did not say that I do not see a lack of fine detail in the gull's feathers but upon taking a closer look I simply do not :). What I did say is that with my workflow I run NR only on the BKGR and never on the bird (so that others with sharpener eyes than mine may see that fine detail is maintained in the feathers).
    It may also be the screen, when I use my laptop I can't see many of the fine details myself. When I use my 30" desktop screen all the details are revealed

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    Quote Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi View Post
    Ron,
    ...
    If you want to know about my CNX2 workflow send me a PM, I'll show a bunch of tricks for NR

    good luck
    Arash, that's a generous offer. I may take you up on it after I return from Hawaii.
    Thanks,
    Ron

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