Need help with this Flycatcher (?)

[Eric Weaver]

Shot this at Majenica Marsh, Salamonie Reservoir on Sunday July 17,2011 about midday. This is located in North Central Indiana, USA near Huntingtion, IN for reference. It looks for all the world like the Ash-throated Flycatcher pic on the upper left hand side of page 472 in The Stokes Field Guide to the Birds of North America © 2010. This would be WAAAAY out of range for it. I'm puzzled as I can't find another match in five different books I own.

I also took a Willow Flycatcher earlier that day in the same location. They are not the same bird. Thanks in advance, hope someone can say that's it or you're crazy! The white cheek up to the eye level is what throws me off on any local birds. They don't match up with that.



finally saw the great big pic rules in front of my face. Hope this works now.

[Eric Weaver]

I also read, albeit Wikipedia, that they have been known to stray as far as the East Coast.

[John Chardine]

Hi Eric- It will be interesting to see what folks say. It doesn't look like a Myiarchus flycatcher to me and I have seen the Ashy-throated here in New Brunswick- on a Christmas Bird Count no less!

[Eric Weaver]

Thank you John for the reply. I doubt that it is. I'd be very surprised if it is. But not being anywhere near an expert on the matter and finding the Ash-throated to look the most alike of all my reference pics I thought I'd ask for help. If you could see the pic in the Stokes field guide you'd likely say that's an Ash-throated Flycatcher. Doesn't mean it is though. I would guess more likely to be a variation in a local species.

[Eric Weaver]

Here's a link to a pic on Whatbird of one with the white cheeks like mine.

http://identify.whatbird.com/obj/397...lycatcher.aspx

[John Chardine]

And I'm wrong more than I'm right when it comes to flycatchers Eric, so I am really interested to know what others think.

[Dan Brown]

Hi Eric. I agree with John, not a Myiarcus of any kind. I believe that if it were myiarcus, we would be seeing rufous on the tail and probably some yellowish on the belly.

My guess is that you have an Eastern Wood Pewee. Don't ask me why! It just has that feel

[Eric Weaver]

Easterns, in all the pics I've seen, have a yellowish beak. I'd go for an Eastern Phoebe over Pewee, imo. That was my first thought but I can't find a single reference to them with white up to the eye nor that white patch in front of the eye. I'm really just hoping someone can come along who will know what it is. I don't!

[Paul Lagasi]

I am by no means an expert...lololol..I posted so many flycatchers here.

My Question is how big was this Flycatcher?

Ash-throated are large in size compared to Willows, Pewee's and Phoebe's.

When I copied your image and checked it out large size, I did see a faint touch of yellow on the bill and a very faint eye-ring....Again, its just a guess...but I do think its a Alder or Willow Flycatcher..maybe a bit worn in color.....this should be interesting to see what others say.

..I'm probably right one in ten with these guys...

[Eric Weaver]

I can't say for sure how big it was. I was focused on a spot about a 1/4 mile away where a Green Heron was fishing. Happened to see this guy off to my side. Had just enough time to swing the camera around on the tripod and my body to the other side. I got 2 shots off while trying to locate it and try to manually focus all at the same time. I'd say 20 seconds from the time I spotted him and he was off. Bigger than the phoebes I've seen.

[Paul Guris]

My knee-jerk reaction when seeing just the photo was Ash-throated. I definitely think it's a Myiarchus flycatcher. When I read the location, I also thought this would be bizarre. We get annual records in New Jersey, but normally in the late fall rather than mid-summer. Still, I can't manage to hammer it into anything other than Ash-throated.

The light is rough and maybe you could add some contrast and brighten the image up a bit, but the bird appears to have reddish primaries and yellowish undertail coverts. The whitish breast, weakish wing bars, grayish back and semi-crested look also all point to Ash-throated. The bill looks too small and the head too rounded for this to be some kind of ultra faded Great-crested which is the only expected Myiarchus there. The one thing that bothers me is that one really pale tail feather though the rest of the tail feathers that show look darker as I would have expected.

I'd suggest sending this photo and any details you have on the sighting to the Indiana Bird Records Committee. If they believe it has good potential for being a non-Great-crested Myiarchus type of flycatcher, I'm sure they'll put plenty of effort into nailing down the ID. Their web page and a sample reporting form is at:
http://www.indianaaudubon.org/Birds/...0/Default.aspx


FYI, here's the BirdFellow account on Ash-throated for reference:
http://www.birdfellow.com/birds/ash-...us-cinerascens

[Eric Weaver]

Thank you Paul. I spent hours looking at reference pics of all types of flycatchers. Like you said I just couldn't hammer it into any of the area birds. The white tail feather and the location do make it a long shot but ash-throated had the most similarities. I still doubt that it is but I was at least hoping someone else would see why I was leaning in that direction. I don't feel totally nuts now!

I also didn't know where to send anything into for some sort of official confirmation. I'll get on that hopefully today. Doesn't matter to me if it isn't an Ash-throated. I really just want to know what it is! Hopefully we'll find out. I appreciate the links greatly.

I've been watching birds all my life. I'm pretty new to trying to identify any but the most common ones. It's addictive. I wish I'd picked this up a long time ago.

[John Chardine]

I could be convinced of the genus Paul! They all have a rusty patch on the wing (greater coverts?) which this bird has a hint of. And the crest is there for sure. The reason it didn't strike me as a Myiarchus flycatcher was the look of the face. Their eyes are set quite far back on the sides of their heads and give them a "look". The attached of a Great-crested, illustrates what I mean. Eric's bird seems to have an eye set more forward.

[Eric Weaver]

All my Great-crested pics show a great deal of yellow on the belly. This bird only has a touch of it. Which is when I went to the ashy. Which could very well be wrong....

I can't tell much difference in eye setting from my reference pics. Not doubting your word on it though. Just not something I had noticed.


The beak does match better though in color.

[Paul Guris]

Eric: I'm going to pass this pic around to a few people who know Ash-throated much better than me. To me it's an uncommon rarity or a vacation bird. And although it doesn't matter to you if it's an Ash-throated or not, it may matter quite a bit to those who study Indiana's avifauna in depth. I think the whitish tail feather looks odd, but I don't think it's a deal breaker if every other mark fits.

John: Check out the ID photos on the BirdFellow link I sent and I think you'll see that Ash-throated has a different look than Great-crested, though it's fairly position dependent. If Eric's bird was upright, I think the balance between the bill base and nape would look very different. Also, Great-creasted has a longer head and bill, and I think that give the face a different balance, kinda' like the balance between Iceland and Glaucous Gulls which I assume you see pretty regularly up there.

[Eric Weaver]

Paul, here's a bit better look at the photo. Tried to up the saturation a bit and lighting. I don't have mad PS skills though. It's still out of focus. Tried to sharpen it up some. I really didn't have enough time to get it in focus right. missed a bit. I have another pic showing the back of the head that I'll post. It was looking away in same pose. That may or may not be of some help. Thanks for passing it around. It would be great if I got an Ashy. I didn't really mean that I don't care, just that I won't be upset if it isn't. Kind of stated that wrong. A common problem of mine. Hope this helps some. You can see that the bird's left side tail feathers are dark.

[Eric Weaver]

Here's the back of the head photo. It's even worse focus but might give some clues. I tried to only up the saturation enough to highlight, not alter these pics. Hope it helps.

[Paul Guris]

One of the people I bounced this off of was Tom Johnson, a very talented birder from PA who manned Cape May's songbird count site at Higbee's Beach this past fall and just did (or may still be in the midst of) doing a seabird survey on a NOAA ship. Here's his take on the bird:

I think this is an Ash-throated Flycatcher because of the combination of head shape (flared small crest), bill size/ shape (tubular and very Myiarchus-y, but smaller than Great or Brown-crested). The very pale, whitish gray upper chest and lemon lower belly also look good for Ash-throated - even at this point in the summer, other Myiarchus in the US usually show darker gray on the throat and brighter yellow bellies (even Dusky-capped is usually obviously yellow here). Since I can't see much of the underside of the tail, I wouldn't bother with it too much unless there are other photos available. The subdued rufous panel at the base of the flight feathers and thin, moderately contrasting edge to the tertials is also fine for ATFL - on a Great-crested especially, this would be wider and paler (sharp, almost white contrast). I'm not familiar enough with Nutting's Flycatcher to comment on that as a very
outside possibility.

[Eric Weaver]

Thank you Paul. Is it ok if I use these descriptions for the Indiana records site?

I would of course give credits to the two of you.

[Paul Guris]

The description is used for the observer to write what they saw. It's no problem if you have a description that says you have no additional points to add as you were concentrating on getting the photo. You can tack on both Tom's and my views and say that the descriptions concern the photographs, not the bird in the field. Just be sure to label them with our names.

I've actually had to do something like this myself. On a pelagic trip I ran, we had a waaaaaayyyy distant bird that we could not ID. We thought it was one of the jaegers so I squeezed off a half dozen frames in hopes of maybe later ID'ing it by shape and then continued to try to see something usable with my binoculars. The bird never got closer and we eventually gave up. When I looked at my images it was clearly identifiable as a South Polar Skua. When I submitted it to the appropriate records committee (we were off of MD), I literally wrote "I have nothing else to add." Between the lens, cropped sensor, and computer cropping, the photos I submitted were somewhere close to a 90X blow-up.

[Eric Weaver]

Will do Paul and thanks again for the help. I'll let you know when I hear something. If I understood the site right this would be an Indiana record. I hope so.

[Eric Weaver]

Just to let everyone know, I sent in the photo to Brad Bumgardner with the IN Bird Records. his response:

"Hi Eric,
I was directed to the web forums where your photo was intially posted to yesterday.

My first reaction was yes, indeed it looks like an Ash-throated Flycatcher. I hope it is refound. Two years ago, several state experts weighed in on what Indiana's next new state bird would be. ATFL was the number one bird on the list. We've been waiting for this bird (albeit I thought it would be a fall record). We just recently had our second Western Wood-Pewee, so there is speculation out there that some wildfire displaced birds have been making their way east.

Thanks. I will get this sent to the record committee."


Would like to thank all at Birdphotographers.net for their help with this. I really thought I had to be crazy seeing this little bird in Indiana. Maybe I wasn't. The wildfire displacement makes sense to me.

[Paul Guris]

Eric, it sounds like you may have nailed a photo of a new state record. Congratulations! In today's world of birding popularity and ubiquitous digital cameras, that is NOT a trivial accomplishment.

Actually I find this pretty stunning since Ash-throated is rare but regular all over the East Coast. New Jersey, for example, has over 40 accepted records. I guess this just shows how complex avian distribution can be.

[Eric Weaver]

Thank you Paul for all the help on it. I really didn't believe it until someone else with much more knowledge than me agreed. I kind of thought no way it is, I must be crazy. Anyhow, I hope it's accepted and a new state record is indeed given. That would be beyond my wildest dreams as a new birder. We'll have to wait to see.

I have to wonder if the ones on the East Coast come from up in Canada then down the coast thereby not flying over my area. Hard to say. Would be interesting if they could gps one someday.

[Paul Lagasi]

Eric best of luck with new state record, as I said I suck at flycatchers. I sent this photo to some friends from all over NA, and they all came back with a resounding yes, that it looked like an Ash-throated. But you already had your answer by then.

Very good find..

Just a note so far this year in Ottawa, Canada...we've had 3 rarities show up a White-faced Ibis (never seen here before), Eared Grebe (a few seen over the years) and a Western Meadowlark (19 years since the last one).

You gotta figure something's up

[Eric Weaver]

Thank you Paul. As for the strange birds being around. It's been near or above 100 around here for a over a week. I think he was just seeking out desert heat is all. I'm waiting on a Roadrunner and a Wily Coyote chasing him through my backyard next. We had about two months of non-stop rain and barely a drop since. It's been a strange year.

I posted it on here because I thought I had to be nuts to think it was an ashy. Everyone else did at first too. Can't blame anyone for that. I eagerly await the verdict. This morning already the local birders local birders were out searching for it. Word spreads fast.