Canon 5D Mark II thoughts

[Pete Riola]

Thinking about buying the Canon 5D Mark II. Wondering how it performs using high ISO? Also how is the noise in dark areas? Is this camera a huge upgrade from the 40D?

[John Chardine]

Hi Pete- The two are pretty different cameras. Almost apples and oranges as they say. Of course the 5D is full frame so your wide angle lenses work as they would have done on a 35mm film camera. The pixel pitch, which is a critical factor in any comparison, is somewhat wider in the 5D- 6.4 microns versus 5.7 microns for the 40D. The pixel quality index for the 5D is much higher (better) than the 40D- ref Roger Clark's web site:

http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/...mance.summary/

There are other differences such as the 5D's ability to do 1080p video versus none on the 40D. The 40D has a faster frame rate than the 5DII. Bottom line is that the 40D is now old technology but the 5DII is still current. By all accounts the 5DII is a milestone camera. Having said all this, depending on what your main subjects are, your better upgrade from the 40D may be the 7D rather than the 5DII.

[Pete Riola]

Hi John, Thank you. I mostly shoot birds with a 500f4 + 1.4. I am frustrated with the noise I get with the 40D and I can't shoot this camera at any ISO over 400. I really want lower noise, the ability to shoot in lower light and fast focusing. Are you thinking the 7 is a better choice. The 7 is a 1.3 crop?

[Doug Schurman]

The 7D is a 1.6 crop body just like the 40D.


I use the 7D with 500f4 and 1.4. It is a great combination. I never hesitate to use ISO 800. When I do a good job on exposure ISO 1600 usually works too for me. I've heard that people say the 7D is about 1 stop better on ISO performance.


With the 5D you won't have as fast of focusing as with the 7D. Also, you will have a lot less pixels on your subject due to the field of view differences.

[John Chardine]

Pete- The sensors seem to be getting better all the time with regard to noise. Friends of mine have the 7D and they are aware of the noise but as Doug says, if you deal with it properly it works for you. Some wonderful images posted here on BPN are made with the 7D. The 1DIV has better noise performance (I have one) but you pay a premium for this body.

[Julie Brown]

Hi Pete. Many of the members will vote for the 7D. Roger's website will give you all the techs. I happen to love my 5D MK II. I think it is an excellent performer at high ISO. The image quality is outstanding in my opinion, and it is a huge step up from the 40D. I still use my 40D with a 400 5.6L for BIF because of its faster frame rate, but only in good light so I can keep the ISO down.

I have a number of images on my photoblog that were taken above ISO 1600. Here is one shot at 3200, if you care to take a look:

http://juliebrown.aminus3.com/image/2010-12-26.html

[Roger Clark]

Pete,

I currently own a 5DII and 1DII, 1DIV, and have used/tested many other cameras including the 7D and 40D.

The 7D and 5DII have the same focusing speeds in direct test I've done using the same lens. Only the 1DIV comes out significantly faster of current cameras (the 1DII equaled the 7D AF speed).

The 7D, with its smaller pixels will give more detail than a 5DII, but each pixel will appear noisier. If you increased the focal length (e.g. by adding TCs) to the 5DII to match the pixels on a distant bird, it would be very difficult to tell the difference in noise between the 5DII, 7D, or any other modern camera (your 40D would appear noisier).

Detail on a subject is traded for more noise. If you made the same sized prints (e.g. so a bird appeared the same size on a print) then the 7D would appear better than a 5DII image. An example of this effect is at:
http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/telephoto_reach/
Look at Figure 2 and compare the 5DII, and 7D images. The 5DII image has a higher signal-to-noise ratio, but do yu think it is better than the 7D image? I don't.

Roger

[Jay Gould]

http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...high-ISO-(BCNH)

This really tells the story about the 5D2. If I was limited to one body and I was not buying the 1D series it woulf be the 5D2. It is so much more versatile.

The hard decision: 5D3 or 1DsX! :eek:

[Pete Riola]

In figure 2 I find my eye attracted to the 5d. I think the 1Div has the best image but it could be because it has more detail and maybe not any less noise. The hard thing is I don't want to make a mistake in my purchase and end up shooting something I don't want for 2-3 years. I'd rather save the dough to get what I need rather than buy a semi-upgrade from the 40D. That said I'm truly tired of the 40D... I believe I have outgrown its capabilities. Right now the 40D is useless for birds on a cloudy day...in the woods etc and even in some decent light I get noise particularly in dark/shaded areas of a bird. I want to take better photos and this is surely a trying process. Thank you so much for all of your input!

More detail less noise!

[Paul Granone]

Thinking about buying the Canon 5D Mark II. Wondering how it performs using high ISO? Also how is the noise in dark areas? Is this camera a huge upgrade from the 40D?

I found the noise with the 7D to be unacceptable at ISO 100. There was always a grainy look and pattern noise in the sky. At higher ISO noise was always an issue, and white pixels would come into play in low light. It made no difference which RAW converter was used. I also tested with 2 different 7D bodies with the same results.

Yes, the 7D put more pixels on the bird. But those pixels leave much to be desired.

I switched to a 5D II and am much happier with the image quality of bird shots. I get clean sky I could never get with a 7D.

Others may love the 7D. We just have to use what works for each of us.

I am saving for a 1D Mark IV so I can have the best focusing and focus at F8.

[David Stephens]

Thinking about buying the Canon 5D Mark II. Wondering how it performs using high ISO? Also how is the noise in dark areas? Is this camera a huge upgrade from the 40D?

I own both the 5D MkII and the 7D and use the 7D almost exclusively with my 500/f4. So long as you don't underexpose, the high-ISO performance is very good up to ISO 800 and acceptable at ISO 1600. I carry both cameras in the field and occasionally shoot predawn and postdusk with the 5D2. It's excellent up to ISO 6400 with just a judicious bit of NR.

The 7D's AF system and 8-fps burst rate make it the superior tool for bird photography. It's ISO performance is very good up to ISO 800, just be sure not to underexpose. At ISO 1600 and above I'll occasionally get a pretty nasty mosaic effect in dark backgrounds, so I stopped using it at such high ISOs. You have to get up above ISO 3200 before that risk comes into play with the 5D2.

I'd strongly recommend the 7D over the 5D MkII for birds, but they're both very fine. I use my 5D2 as my secondary nature camera, but it becomes primary for scenics, portraits, travel, night photography, etc.

[Jeff Dyck]

Until very recently with the acquisition of a 1DIV, I used the 5DII almost exclusively for avian photography for the past 3 years and just love it. I took a loaner 7D with me on a 2 week photo trip earlier this year (as I was considering purchasing one), but never found the image quality and very notably, low light performance, could match the 5DII. The big advantage, as Dave mentions above, for the 7D is the frame rate - lots more choices on inflights for wing positions, etc.

I was very interested to see Roger's comments above about tests showing the focusing speed of the 7D to be the same as the 5DII - I have had this argument with others on a few occasions --> I have "qualitatively" contended since I tried the 7D that I saw no difference in the focusing speed between the two models, where I have others swear the 7D was superior - interesting...

[Pete Riola]

For 3 days I've researched this and I think the 1D4 seems to be the ticket. I want the 10 FPS and the fast focusing! Now where to get one...seems they are hard to find.

[David Stephens]

For 3 days I've researched this and I think the 1D4 seems to be the ticket. I want the 10 FPS and the fast focusing! Now where to get one...seems they are hard to find.

That's hard to argue against. You'll get the best of the 5D2 and the 7D, plus added benefits.

[Roger Clark]

I was very interested to see Roger's comments above about tests showing the focusing speed of the 7D to be the same as the 5DII - I have had this argument with others on a few occasions --> I have "qualitatively" contended since I tried the 7D that I saw no difference in the focusing speed between the two models, where I have others swear the 7D was superior - interesting...

I posted this on bpn a while back:

I did a little experiment with focus speeds. I took a canon 300 mm f/2.8
L IS lens with canon 2x TC. I manually moved the focus to minimum distance,
and then pointed at a bright distant source (the Moon in a dark sky), I half
pressed the focus and counted how long to come into focus. Here are some
results:

1D Mark II: 4 to 5 seconds
5D Mark II: 4 to 5 seconds
7D: 4 to 5 seconds
1D Mark IV: 2 to 2.5 seconds.

Then 300 f/2.8 with no TCs:

1D Mark IV: about 2/3 second or a little less.

Also, as expected, changing "tracking speed" in the custom functions
did not change the time to achieve initial focus.

Roger

[Pete Riola]

That's a huge difference Roger and justifies another point for the 1D Mark IV. Thanks a bunch!

[Sabyasachi Patra]

I love my Mark IV. It has incredible low light performance and very good AF. If you are into filming, then 5DII is good as you can record audio without the problem of Auto Gain.

[Steve Uffman]

Love them both. I was struggling with a decision on a 2nd body. A number of folks at BPN weighed in...Jay Gould was high on the 5D and sent me to a website to show me what it was capable. That was the tipping point and I have no regrets at all.

Now, the 7d I like even more after I had a micro adjustment done to its focusing..Originally, It was off from the factory just a tad...after doing some comparative shots, it was easy to see an adjustment was needed...we did and it made a huge difference in sharpness....

Interestingly, I use the 7d when birds in flight are a concern but many times when , shooting early light, nesting or relatively still birds, I go with the 5d....

as an example, at a workshop at the SAAF taught by Robert Amoruso and Robert Otoole, it was suggested that I put the 5d on the tripod with the 500. Was counter to what I planned due to the 7Ds crop factor but it worked out terrifically. And the 7d was on a 70-200 (sometimes with a 1.4 TC) to shoot birds in flight....Both played very well to their strengths

Also use the 7d for sports and the 5D for just about everything else

Both cameras are sweet...now if a 1DMarkV( that has half of the features that various wags are speculating) ever comes out that likely will cause me to reach for the pocket book one more time.

[Pete Riola]

Ok I'm back on this subject...I can't find a new 1d mark iv and I need to upgrade my 40 D for the fall migration. Seems the 7D is better than the 5 for birds....is the 7D vastly better than the 40D?

[Steve Bein]

If you are willing to buy a used 1D MK IV with not many exposures, contact me at my email address drbein@aol.com.
Steve