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Thread: Hiding in Plain Sight

  1. #1
    Lifetime Member Marina Scarr's Avatar
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    Default Hiding in Plain Sight

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    Although some people don't and won't like this image b/c of the sky, this is one of my favorite Barred Owl pictures to date. I love the inclusion of the environment and all of its diversity and layers. You can really see how an owl can hide right under (in this case over) your nose. This owl appears to have a hint of blood on his beak.

    All c & c welcomed and appreciated.

    Canon 1D3, Canon 70-200L F4 & 1.4
    F5.6, 1/200sec, ISO 500, manual mode
    No flash. Handheld

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    Lifetime Member gail bisson's Avatar
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    I like it! I am a big fan of environmental pictures and love to see birds "as is". I might go a bit brighter and might try it as a vertical or square as well.
    Gail

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    I'm a fan of these non sterile images incorporating habit as you are aware. I might try and work on his left eye as it seems a little "hollow". Maybe another slight selective round of sharpening on the owl itself.

    Well seen and technically executed considering all that you had to factor in.

    If others don't like it they need to broaden their realm of approach.

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    Inclusion of habitat is nice.
    With that focal length, the branch falling in the same depth of the owl's eyes should have been sharp as well, but it appears soft. In addition, the slow shutter also contributed to the softness of the image since it was handheld.
    TFS.

  5. #5
    Ofer Levy
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    I like the habitat and mood in here. IQ is not great though - not sure why.

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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    I think this image has been heavily compressed by accident, it shows square compression/quantization artifacts.
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    Forum Participant Joe Senzatimore's Avatar
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    Love the habitat included. I might try some crop off the top just to get rid of most of the bright sky. Otherwise a very fine image. Tells a story very well.

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    Marina, loved the habitat and the composition. But I am with Arash and Ofer....IQ/Sharpness is not up to your usual high standards. file is only 139KB...reaching the 200KB limit will probably partially take care of the issue.

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    Super Moderator Daniel Cadieux's Avatar
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    As per Arash, this looks to me like compression artefatcs so I will withold commenting on sharpness. I like the comp and habitat (the mosses and ferns add a nice one-two punch), but yes, for me the sky is just not that appealing. Well spotted!

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    BPN Member Steve Maxson's Avatar
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    Hi Marina. An interesting diversity of comments about this one. I like it - the owl is giving you a nice pose, I like the comp, and the habitat really says Florida to me. (I can't help but think how different a "barred owl in habitat" photo from up here would look.)

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    To help me learn, where are you folks seeing the compression arifacts???

    Love the habitat but agree with others on sharpness issues. A tripod and f/11 might have rocked this one. The large hanging moss bugs me both because it is o-o-f and too centered, not that you had a choice with the latter. Good catch by Mr. Tracy on the left eye.
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    Super Moderator Daniel Cadieux's Avatar
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    Hey Artie, I've circle some of the more prominent areas of compression pixelation, but these are scattered pretty much throughout the image and severely compromise the IQ. If you bring in the image in PS and zoom in about 175-200 % you'll see huge square pixels.

    P.S. I'd love to see a properly resized repost from Marina as her IQ is usually very good...I'm sure this image is too.

  13. #13
    Lifetime Member Marina Scarr's Avatar
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    Default Re-post

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    Thank you everyone for your comments and critiques. I have worked on the image again. I still see the issues Daniel is referring to but cannot explain it.

    Post processing is not my forte, and I would therefore appreciate any further feedback you may wish to offer.

    Thank you in advance.
    Marina Scarr
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    Super Moderator Daniel Cadieux's Avatar
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    Yes, I see the same issues too. Did you have to lower the quality alot when saving for web to get the image under 200kb?

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    Lifetime Member Marina Scarr's Avatar
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    Yes. It ended up on low quality. Any advice would be much appreciated bc I really like this picture.
    Marina Scarr
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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    To help me learn, where are you folks seeing the compression arifacts???

    .
    all over the image. like the squares blotches Dan highlighted...

    Marina, go back to the original and use "save for web" in PS.
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 05-25-2011 at 10:05 AM.
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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Thanks Arash and Dan, Are you seeing them in the image as presented or when enlarging it a bit?
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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Thanks Arash and Dan, Are you seeing them in the image as presented or when enlarging it a bit?
    I can see them as posted. Here I compressed one of my own owl images to show quantization artifacts


    Name:  compressed.jpg
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Size:  40.1 KB
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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    and this was the original before compression

    http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...-owl-in-flight
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    Super Moderator Daniel Cadieux's Avatar
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    I'm seeing them as presented. In my repost with the black circles that I've drawn (pane #12), notice the vertical and horizontal grid-like lines inside those circled areas...

    Saw Arash's example after replying, his example shows the type of squares we're seeing.
    Last edited by Daniel Cadieux; 05-25-2011 at 10:57 AM. Reason: added line

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Thanks both, especially Arash for the before and after's. I now see what you are talking about. With Arash's after owl I would have thought that the image simply had lousy BOKEH and that the owl was not sharp. As I have said often, I do not have a discerning eye for fine detail.
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    Quote Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi View Post
    all over the image. like the squares blotches Dan highlighted...

    Marina, go back to the original and use "save for web" in PS.
    I personally never used this option for web, it is good to know.
    I usually just resize the image to 800 pixels on the long side, then just save it under 200kb.
    Not sure how good this technique is but has been working for me.

  23. #23
    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Lim View Post
    I personally never used this option for web, it is good to know.
    I usually just resize the image to 800 pixels on the long side, then just save it under 200kb.
    Not sure how good this technique is but has been working for me.
    800 pix image is 60% smaller so normal save is usually fine, for 1024 pixel it often ends up around 280KB if you have fine details.

    BTW, 800 pixel for web presentation is just awful these days IMHO, my laptop screen is 1920 pixels wide and my desktop screen is 2560 pixels wide, a 800 pixel image looks like a thumbnail on these screens. You should def post 1024 pixles (unless you want to hide some imperfections )
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    Quote Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi View Post
    800 pix image is 60% smaller so normal save is usually fine, for 1024 pixel it often ends up around 280KB if you have fine details.

    BTW, 800 pixel for web presentation is just awful these days IMHO, my laptop screen is 1920 pixels wide and my desktop screen is 2560 pixels wide, a 800 pixel image looks like a thumbnail on these screens. You should def post 1024 pixles (unless you want to hide some imperfections )
    I agree. Most forum only allow 800. I post on several, too lazy to save different versions. LOL.

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Arash, Do you use 72dpi for web images? May we assume that after you size the image and go to Save for Web that you reduce the size by using Optimize to File Size?
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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Arash, Do you use 72dpi for web images? May we assume that after you size the image and go to Save for Web that you reduce the size by using Optimize to File Size?
    Hi, DPI is for print it does not affect display resolution/file size. I just use the "quality" slider in save for web to bring the file size just below 200KB, make sure "optimized" is checked.

    hope this helps.
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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Thanks for the correction. Once you have set the pixel dimensions, say 1024 wide, do you save at a given # of pixels/inch?

    Or does that come out in the wash once you move the Quality Slider in Save for Web?
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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Thanks for the correction. Once you have set the pixel dimensions, say 1024 wide, do you save at a given # of pixels/inch?

    Or does that come out in the wash once you move the Quality Slider in Save for Web?
    I think the save for web keeps whatever DPI the original file has been tagged with. You just need to play with the quality slider until it drops below 200KB.
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  29. #29
    Lifetime Member Marina Scarr's Avatar
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    Default 2nd Repost

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    Hello Everyone:

    First of all thank you for bringing the "save for the web" feature to my attention. Here is another version saved for the web as you suggested, Arash. I played with the quality slider until it reached 198. Please tell me if you feel this version is an improvement over the most recent re-post.

    Thank you again for all of your advice and comments. I am always happy to learn and have done so with this thread.
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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Marina your file is still larger than 200KB (it is actually 200.31KB) so this time it was compressed by BPN server, ouch!!! :eek:

    Note that the size displayed in the save for web window is approximate so you need to leave more than 3KB head room, take it blow 197 KB and you will be fine!!!
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 05-25-2011 at 06:48 PM.
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  31. #31
    Ofer Levy
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    Hi Marina, 2nd repost looks better. However, opened it in photoshop and it looks a bit oversaturated and when I tried to adjust it and save I couldn't keep the image size under 200 with good enough quality.
    Send me a PM if you like so we can try and see together what's going on.

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