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Thread: Now Charlie...stay very still...maybe he'll go away!

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    BPN Member Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    Default Now Charlie...stay very still...maybe he'll go away!

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    Something different I captured in the Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park last year.

    Both lions and ground squirrels are iconic residents of the Kalahari desert, and while we were following a male lion patrolling his territory one morning we came across a den of ground squirrels. I don't know which was oblivious of which...but it seemed like they froze when they caught scent of the big boy walking by.

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  2. #2
    Robert Amoruso
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    Good juxtaposition and the right amount of sharpness in the BG so the lion is recognizable.

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    Frankly speaking Morkelbhai , This does not wok for me but you never know it may work for BBC
    TFS

  4. #4
    Ken Watkins
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    I agree with Harshad on this one, it would have to be a very hungry and desperate Lion to go after Ground Squirrels.

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    BPN Member Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    Thanks guys

    Ken - I would not presume a lion would try and go for a ground squirrel? Never mind their size, they're just too darn fast :)

    Harshad and Ken - I'm curious, what would work better for you in this scenario? A stock standard shot of a lion walking (which almost everyone has) or a stock standard image of a ground squirrel den? I don't mind you stating your preference, but for the sake of stimulating the discussion, please elaborate why it doesn't fit your tastes? :)
    Morkel Erasmus

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    Ken Watkins
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    Morkel,

    My comment was firstly directed at your title and was meant to be amusing but it clearly faild.

    As for the image itself whilst it may be different I feel it has no special merits as neither part of the image stands up if the Lion had been a lot closer then it may have been better, but that would have been a minor miracle as even though Ground Squirrels are feisty I am sure they would have departed the scene as soon as the Lion got near, but maybe not.

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    Morkelbhai

    All images posted here can be liked by viewers and some images may not be liked. It is as simple as it is , Though I am not a guy who would love to pull skin of hair , but will try to explain,

    Lighting , IQ and overall compo don't work for me , Distance between two subjects either not helping , Liked the concept but fails to impress me as viewer

    Quote Originally Posted by Morkel Erasmus View Post
    but for the sake of stimulating the discussion,
    I must say I am surprised by this statement

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    Ouch , Looks like , Me & Ken posted response at same time

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    Morkel, I like this concept. The desert environment is captured well. I like the graphics of the reddish toned bushes and the detail in the ground. I think seeing the nonchalant lion in the background is interesting. He is part of the environment but not the focus which is usually the case. Things I think would lift the image in my view would be if one of the squirrels had turned to look at the lion and perhaps if the lion was to the right a little more and the squirrels to the left so that there was a diagonal line (notional) leading from one corner to the other. Minor points, but overall the feeling of the image is all arid lands, hardship and animals going about their lives. A rather interesting illustrative image and certainly valuable in any image stock library I would have thought. TFS.

  10. #10
    Ken Watkins
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harshad Barve View Post
    Morkelbhai
    I must say I am surprised by this statement
    Me too I thought debating was supposed to be discouraged

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Made me chuckle this morning Morkel when I read the title, then viewed the image, great.

    I like the depth here between the main focus and the lion, good DOF and the lion is just right, a fraction off centre allowing enough to convey that waking through, oblivious of the two squirrels which would soon bolt as the lion turned his head I guess.
    The environment certain typifies an arid and desolate feeling.

    Works for me, as it conveys a story, a moment in time.

    TFS
    Steve
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    Sorry Morkel does nothing for me either....I can understand the juxtaposition you are trying to create...

    just because an image is different does not necessarily means it will work.. so aesthetically its a no from me..

    from a technical point of view the angle is too high.. lighting does not help.. agree with Hilary if one of the GS or even better the lion had turned its head towards you it may have helped...

    but if you like it or you can make money from it using a stock library .. then thats all that matters as its your image...

    but personally I would have binned it .. sorry hope that does no sound harsh .. just being honest..

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    Lifetime Member Rachel Hollander's Avatar
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    Morkel - Although the concept is good, I am another where this image doesn't do it for me. Some things that I think would have helped accomplish your vision would be to have gotten lower so that it would almost be like the viewer could be another ground squirrel witnessing the scene (I know this was probably not possible). I also think the 2 pieces of dead wood in the center of the image detract from the concept. As I scan my eyes up from the squirrels to the lion I find the wood interrupts the process. I can't help but think that at the moment in time that you captured this shot neither knew the other was there. Agree a head turn by either or one of the squirrels up on its haunches would have greatly enhanced this image. Sorry, just my humble opinion. But as others have said what matters in the end most is what you think.

    I do agree that it conveys the desolate desert environment well.

    TFS,
    Rachel

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    Lifetime Member Rachel Hollander's Avatar
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    Morkel - another thought (sorry) but maybe it is the title you have chosen that doesn't work. If you instead called it "Oblivious" it would completely change the viewer's expectations and the message you want to convey. With a title like "Oblivious" you are instead suggesting that these animals could co-exist in this desolate environment and not know the other was there. Then the head turns, etc don't matter.

    Just a thought.

    Rachel

  15. #15
    Ken Watkins
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    Now that is what I call two contrasting views one of which I agree with.

  16. #16
    Robert Amoruso
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    Well Morkel, you got beat up on this one.

    When I looked at this image yesterday evening and provided my rather short response, I would have to admit that I felt similar to the others above. It did not work for me. As I was tired, I just did not feel up to listing why it did not work for me but I do feel it is important to indicate to the OP why you feel images work or don't work so would like to comment again.

    After reading the above responses, I feel that Rachel brought up several good points in pane 13 I agree with. There are others I agree with too such as the distance of the lion from the squirrels. Though the two are juxtaposed well together, they seem oblivious to each other as Rachel mentioned making the title confusing to some. Most likely, your proximity to them is more threatening then the lion. I see the same thing here with birds in the water right next to alligators - but if I make a wrong move they fly away.

  17. #17
    Robert Amoruso
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Watkins View Post
    Me too I thought debating was supposed to be discouraged
    Ken, constructively critiquing the image is not discouraged. I so no problem with Morkel asking Harshad why he felt the image did not work for him.

    As you know, this site is about helping photographers better there image making skills and elaborating on what you like and dislike about an image and the reasons why is not discouraged.

    What is discouraged is off-topic discussions, personalized snipping - whether related to the image or not, and other such similar non-community related discourse. And do not get me wrong, I am not saying you or anyone above did this, I am just clarifying your misunderstanding regarding debating/discussing a critique.

    I feel the the discourse above was on-topic, informative and helpful in understanding our feelings on Morkel's image.

  18. #18
    Lifetime Member Rachel Hollander's Avatar
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    I just want to clarify my point about the title of the image. Sometimes a photographer or artist uses a title to suggest what the artist/photographer wanted to convey, other times the title may be merely descriptive. I guess in this case I felt Morkel was suggesting what he wanted the image to convey but for the reasons I outlined in pane 13, the image IMO did not support the suggestion. For me had the title been "Oblivious" it would have suggested to the viewer that the point of the image was that in the desolate desert environment the lion and squirrels could pass by and neither know the other was there. A suggestion the image supports. It's all about the spin, which as a lawyer I do for a living. My issues with the image weren't about the IQ or the techs but about the content and comp of the image.

    Hope this clarifies.

    Rachel

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    BPN Member Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Amoruso View Post
    Well Morkel, you got beat up on this one.
    Indeed...and I don't mind one bit...the discussion above is probably closer to what's needed in more cases on this gallery.

    I value each and every input given above. I agree, having the lion closer would have helped. Better head angle would have helped. Less clutter in the field between them would have helped. A lower angle would have helped (not possible unless lying on the ground - and you're not allowed to get out in National Parks). Yet I still find that I like this...maybe because I was there and it was a memorable morning...maybe because it conveys something of a region of South Africa that I have a passion for.

    Rachel - I do like your alternate title ...if I do ever post this anywhere else I will surely use that one...if I may :2

    I have always encouraged healthy debate on the topic at hand...so Harshad my point was just to spark a lively discussion, nothing else meant by it.
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    Lifetime Member Rachel Hollander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morkel Erasmus View Post
    Rachel - I do like your alternate title ...if I do ever post this anywhere else I will surely use that one...if I may :2
    Of course

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    BPN Member Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    something I might add as well

    between registered users and outsiders just browsing the forum, many more people might be interested in "your" (generic - any participant on the forum) opinion than you think...hence the reason I probed the "doesn't work for me" comments to be a bit more elaborative...

    So I echo Robert...if it works for you...tell us why...and if it doesn't, especially tell us why...
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  22. #22
    Ken Watkins
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morkel Erasmus View Post
    the discussion above is probably closer to what's needed in more cases on this gallery.
    I could not disagree with that statement

  23. #23
    Ken Watkins
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Amoruso View Post
    Ken, constructively critiquing the image is not discouraged. I so no problem with Morkel asking Harshad why he felt the image did not work for him.

    As you know, this site is about helping photographers better there image making skills and elaborating on what you like and dislike about an image and the reasons why is not discouraged.

    What is discouraged is off-topic discussions, personalized snipping - whether related to the image or not, and other such similar non-community related discourse. And do not get me wrong, I am not saying you or anyone above did this, I am just clarifying your misunderstanding regarding debating/discussing a critique.

    I feel the the discourse above was on-topic, informative and helpful in understanding our feelings on Morkel's image.
    I agree entirely Robert , but certainly judging by my own and others experience missinterpretations are made by some

    Although my comment was of course made in a humorous manner as indicated by

    I can only hope that these sort of "debates" are encouraged, where needed, in the future. Time will tell.

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    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    Mate, if the lion was walking towards the the little guys it would work for me. However, nothing ties the image together because neither is looking or reacting to the other.

    The squirrels are sharp, and consistent with f/8 you can see where both the foreground and background goes out of focus.

    If there was supposed to be a tie between the lion and the squirrels then an f/stop that would have both in focus would have made more sense to me.

    If the subject of the image were just the squirrels, then I have no problem with the image as it would represent a slice of life for the squirrels with the lion walking along at a distance and having nothing to do with the squirrels.

    Also, at what height were you when you created the image? I would think that it would work much better if you were lying on the ground.
    Cheers, Jay

    My Digital Art - "Nature Interpreted" - can now be view at http://www.luvntravlnphotography.com

    "Nature Interpreted" - Photography begins with your mind and eyes, and ends with an image representing your vision and your reality of the captured scene; photography exceeds the camera sensor's limitations. Capturing and Processing landscapes and seascapes allows me to express my vision and reality of Nature.

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    BPN Member Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    thanks Jay - taken from the window of the car...you are not allowed to get out of your vehicle in South African National Parks unless you are a the rest camp or a designated picnic spot...
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