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Thread: Canon7D+300f2.8+2xTC-III test

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    BPN Member Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    Default Canon7D+300f2.8+2xTC-III test

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    Got my new generation 2.0x TC yesterday and decided to test it out on my recently acquired 300mmf 2.8 L IS immediately at the local duck pond. Light wasn't what I had hoped for but I got enough sample images to more than satisfy me and justify the purchase.

    This sacred ibis was flying low and coming by quite quickly. The AF locked on to it early and kept tracking the bird until I lost it in the viewfinder. The AF is certainly much quicker than my "old faithful" 100-400mm that I have used for most of my birding shots.

    Sharpness wide open seems to be hair-splitting close to being ON PAR with my results using the 1.4x TC-mk2 wide open, and my opinion is that you will have to start pixel-peeping to see the difference between with either 1.4x or the bare 300mm if you stop down a tad to f7.1.

    I am happy to have a viable 600mm f5.6 combo that didn't cost me my children's future education funds

    Your comments and thoughts much appreciated...

    Techs:
    Canon 7D with 300mm f2.8 L IS USM + 2x TC-III (600mm)
    f5.6 @ 1/2500 SS @ ISO-1600
    Exposure bias +1
    Cropped out about 40% of the image from the top, right and left
    Morkel Erasmus

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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    what in interesting bird Morkel, nice shot, sharpness is not that great given the fast ss, but not bad for a 2X TC wide open, your observation is interesting since both Doug Brown and I found a significant difference between 1.4X TC and 2X TC. IMHO 2X TC either II or III is not for quality flight images , but good for making record shots, of course standards of sharpness are quite different among different photographers :)
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    BPN Member dankearl's Avatar
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    Nice photo, I use the TC2.0III with a 70-200 F2.8 and I find that wide open f5.6 is not that sharp, but stopped to f6.3 or 7.1 works very well.
    As you say, you don't need to mortgage your house to double the length.

  4. #4
    Ofer Levy
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    Hi Morkel. Nice image. As to comparing the Canon 300mm f2.8 plus converters to the Canon 600 f4 IS - I am not so sure.
    I own both lenses and I use them both with the 2 types of converters. The Canon 300mm with the 1.4 converter is great for BIF but it's only 420mm. With the x2 converter is almost useless for BIF as the AF is very slow. You can't really compare this Canon 300 + x2 combo to the Canon 600 f4 IS - it is really chalk and cheese...

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    I think you've got a capable combination. Especially in good light. For ISO 1600, this is quite clean.

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    BPN Viewer Dave Leroy's Avatar
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    Interesting comments about the lens and Tc combination.

    I would think you would have lost some quality with a 7D at 1600ISO and a reasonably large crop. So better light and stopped down a bit may be noticeably better.

    Dave

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    BPN Member Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    thanks for the discussion folks

    I should have qualified a bit more...I also bore in mind that my main subjects have always been wildlife, BIF is an extra for me. So yes, Arash, for taking BIF shots of smaller birds and faster flyers it won't be AS quick as the 600 prime, but in my experience thus far it will be quicker than my 100-400 which was what I used mostly for the past few years.

    Regarding "comparing" it to a 600mm f4. I was actually only trying to say I've got a viable 600mm option now for less than half the cost, and I agree it's chalk and cheese in the sense that I specifically got the 300mm for my photographic safaris where a 600mm lens will be cumbersome and more often than not "too much glass" given how close we get to the subjects. I feel that for wildlife photography in most locations I frequent, the 300 with the 1.4x-II and 2.0x-III converters will be sufficient options to cover most scenarios.
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    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    I like the 300 + 2.0X for BIF. Aside from the pocket book it is significantly lighter than a big prime lens.

    If you are going to want to instantly shoot after the first focus grab then the speed of acquisition might be an issue compared to a prime lens; however, if you grab the BIF and lock focus at a distance following the bird until the HA etc is what you want, using the Neiger bump method as you follow the bird, then the slightly slower acquisition is not an issue. IMHO
    Cheers, Jay

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  9. #9
    Ofer Levy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morkel Erasmus View Post
    Regarding "comparing" it to a 600mm f4. I was actually only trying to say I've got a viable 600mm option now for less than half the cost, and I agree it's chalk and cheese in the sense that I specifically got the 300mm for my photographic safaris where a 600mm lens will be cumbersome and more often than not "too much glass" given how close we get to the subjects. I feel that for wildlife photography in most locations I frequent, the 300 with the 1.4x-II and 2.0x-III converters will be sufficient options to cover most scenarios.
    Hi Morkel,
    My comment and I assume that Arash's comment as well are referring to bird photography as this is the BIRDS forum...

  10. #10
    Ofer Levy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Gould View Post
    I like the 300 + 2.0X for BIF. Aside from the pocket book it is significantly lighter than a big prime lens.

    If you are going to want to instantly shoot after the first focus grab then the speed of acquisition might be an issue compared to a prime lens; however, if you grab the BIF and lock focus at a distance following the bird until the HA etc is what you want, using the Neiger bump method as you follow the bird, then the slightly slower acquisition is not an issue. IMHO
    Hi Jay, would love to see one or two excellent BIF images you took with the 300 f2.8 plus x2 converter combo. Would you be able to post them in here or direct us to where they are?
    Thanks,
    Ofer
    http://www.oferlevyphotography.com

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    Hey Morkel...Congrats on the combo...I believe you will be very happy with your 300+ 2x Ext combo. AF will definitely be a touch faster than the 100-400 also with the AF capabilities of the 7D you should find it easier as well. Look at Chris Kotze's IOTY he took it 7D and the same combo as yours but 2x Ext generation II and his BIF stuff is very good as well. I feel you will be able to get much sharper images than this with the new combo as I got sharper images than this with that same lens and 2x Ext combo...Enjoy and congrats...great to have a 600mm focal length isnt it?

  12. #12
    Ofer Levy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumay Boulle View Post
    Hey Morkel...Congrats on the combo...I believe you will be very happy with your 300+ 2x Ext combo. AF will definitely be a touch faster than the 100-400 also with the AF capabilities of the 7D you should find it easier as well. Look at Chris Kotze's IOTY he took it 7D and the same combo as yours but 2x Ext generation II and his BIF stuff is very good as well. I feel you will be able to get much sharper images than this with the new combo as I got sharper images than this with that same lens and 2x Ext combo...Enjoy and congrats...great to have a 600mm focal length isnt it?
    Hi Dumay, the Canon 300 f2.8 plus x2 converter is a great combo for STATIC shots as shown in the fantastic IOTY.
    In this discussion we are talking about this combo and BIF which is a completely different story....

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    Ofer I was responding to what Morkel was saying. I never even read the thread properly before responding . But as far as I can see Morkel was not really even talking about BIF, Just the results he had seen from this combo vs the 100-400. Regarding the combo, it is possible to use it for BIF but obviously not nearly as fast as the prime. I have seen some remarkable BIF images with the combo...They just need to work harder to get these images. I still believe its not about what you use but how you use it.
    Last edited by Dumay de Boulle; 04-10-2011 at 04:27 AM.

  14. #14
    Ofer Levy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumay Boulle View Post
    I have seen some remarkable BIF images with the combo...They just need to work harder to get these images. I still believe its not about what you use but how you use it.
    Hi Dumay, please post a link where I can see those remarkable BIF images taken with the 300 f2.8 plus the x2 combo.
    As to "it's not what you use but how you use it"....well, interesting.

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    Morkel,

    Just had my 1st chance to briefly use the new mkIII version last week. See here http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...on-EF-2X-MKIII

    Seems llke it has been improved over version II

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    BPN Member Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    thanks for the input folks...

    I do feel some comments are going off-topic and I think the technical results of shooting BIF with this combo can be better discussed in the general forums.

    For what it's worth Ofer - Chris Kotze does not only shoot stationary birds and I too have seen some stellar results of him shooting BIF with the OLD 2xTC on another forum both of us frequent...

    In the end - it will be a case of both "horses for courses" and "what gear can you afford - make the best of it"...in South Africa a 600mm lens cost just as much as a brand new small VW sedan, and no matter how much I love my photography, I will not be able to fork out that kind of money with a growing family and a wife who stays at home to raise the kids.

    I agree with Dumay - how you use what you have makes a difference. That's why I have seen people posting results with a 40D/100-400 combo that tops results of other less-experienced shooters who had the cash to fork out for a 1D-500/600 combo.
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  17. #17
    Ofer Levy
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    Hi Morkel, the only reason I insist in this thread is because people might get the wrong impression and make expensive and painful mistakes especially when they read comments and observations made by a moderator.
    I made the same mistake many years ago by reading similar threads in another forum and bought the Canon 300 f2.8 rather than the Canon 500 f4 for bird photography. I could afford either lens but thought the 300mm plus the x2 converter would be fine for BIF but was very badly disappointed.
    Canon 300mm f2.8 plus the new x2 teleconvetre WILL NOT produce stellar results when it comes to BIF. ( or maybe it depends what you define as stellar.) As you know BIF is a different world than taking photos of standing/walking/running big animals.
    Cheers,
    Ofer
    http://www.oferlevyphotography.com

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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Hi Morkel,

    I agree with you that these discussions are better suited for the gear forum, but I have to say I feel you're being a bit unfair to Ofer. The title of your post and the description implies you posted this photo to demonstrate the sharpness of 300+2X TC and 7D combo for BIF, well... the photo is not sharp. Honestly even if it was sharp it still wouldn't work, the bird's head is turned away from us, pose is not dynamic and wing position is flat, on top of that you have sky BG, so a record shot of this great specie, yes but an avian photo, no.

    Honestly, I feel sometimes you go way too far with processing huge crops of 7D files at high ISO, it is not going to produce an acceptable quality image, even at this size. I would understand why a beginner would do that but an experienced and great photographer like yourself shouldn't be really shooting in these conditions. Why lower your standards and settle for mediocre images? Until you get better gear capable of handling high ISO and longer lenses for long distant flight shots, there are hundreds of other opportunities you can use to take great quality photographs like many of the ones you have posted before, in my humble opinion it would be much more productive I really like and appreciate your photography, so I thought I mention this, hope you don't take it personally

    Best of luck and have fun with the new lens and TC!
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 04-10-2011 at 11:44 PM.
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    BPN Member Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    Ofer - fair enough, thanks for sharing your experience. I apologize if my post could be taken as misleading. I think anyone with enough photographic savvy wouldn't presume that getting a 300+tc is honestly better than getting a 500 or 600. It's just that so many out there don't have that as an option due to cost implications. So my point was that I am happy to have a "viable" option, I did not say all-round-excellent-all-the-time.

    Arash - I appreciate the honesty and your frankness. I never posted this to be intended as an ideal BIF shot. I know the head angle isn't that good, and personally I don't mind sky backgrounds - that's where birds fly, isn't it? . I looked at the head and eye and they are sharp on my monitor given the light conditions (which sucked, sun was setting behind clouds) and the wide open aperture I was using on this combo. That's what I wanted to show here. There is a reason I don't post in avian that often and why I moderate the wildlife forum - it's that I don't see birds as necessarily my specialty as it is yours and many other great photographers on this site. So maybe I tend to "push" things a bit to see what the possibilities/limitations of my gear and processing is. And oftentimes I post the results of my "pushing". So that I can learn what works and what not from others' perspectives. And yes, more often than not it is probably borderline...but that's what posting on a forum like this is all about...learning, testing others' reception of a shot, finding out which techniques or PP will work better. You won't find this shot on my website or even posted on my blog, but a forum like this is a bit more "open" and shouldn't be where people head if they want to see the cream of my images.
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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Thanks Morkel, looking froward to see more photos of this great species next time when light is better and you are closer :)
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 04-11-2011 at 12:55 AM.
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