The Art Side of Things

[Gloria Hopkins]

I'm doing a seminar on image design for nature photographers. It's my first talk and three hours is a *very* long time to teach / entertain a group of folks. I'm nervous....

For my genre, I thought this the most appropriate forum to ask for help. So here I go:

QUESTION: If these students were you, what art topics would you like discussed? We can cover the Golden Triangle, the Fibonacci sequence of numbers, or I can be basic and talk about the Rule-of-Thirds, shapes, form, light or the physiology/behaviour of birds. I can talk about anything ... but optics.

I know I'm not a frequent poster here (I don't post anywhere), but I'm in need of some really good help and would be eternally grateful for any and all advice. THANK YOU!

[Sid Garige]

Gloria,

Even though you are not a frequent poster here some of us know who you are. I learned a lot about composition from your book. Thank you.

I guess it really depends on student level. If they know the basics and looking for some help in advanced composition then taking about advanced topics will work. If they are beginners dealing with basics might be the best option.

Occasionally I present my work to groups but mostly limited to 1hr. Its hard to hold their interest even with good images if you dont have great story to go along.

-Sid

[James Shadle]

Rule-of-Thirds and the psychological affects caused by light's different color temperatures would be a good place to start with art students.

[Nick Palmieri]

I think I would like to hear from someone like you about symmetry, perspective, light...and how they are co-mingled with the traditional artistic methods...especially when composing a nature scene...Just my two cents...

[Gloria Hopkins]

Gloria,

Even though you are not a frequent poster here some of us know who you are. I learned a lot about composition from your book. Thank you.

I guess it really depends on student level. If they know the basics and looking for some help in advanced composition then taking about advanced topics will work. If they are beginners dealing with basics might be the best option.

Occasionally I present my work to groups but mostly limited to 1hr. Its hard to hold their interest even with good images if you dont have great story to go along.

-Sid

Hi Sid: Thanks for the positive feedback on the book! I am happy that you were able to benefit from it in your photography!

This seminar was originally to be based on chapters three and four (pretty dry stuff). I was able, however, to talk the coordinator into covering the basics of the entire book (with lots of maps!). As you say, 'coursework' will depend on their level of expertise and that's something I will have to gauge. I've never done this and I'm pretty terrified, lol.

[Gloria Hopkins]

Rule-of-Thirds and the psychological affects caused by light's different color temperatures would be a good place to start with art students.

Thank you kindly!

[Dan Brown]

You could talk about the importance of contrasts - lights and darks, soft focus and sharp focus, color contrasts, etc. Arranged properly, these contrasts give depth (I'm sure you know this!). You could burn some time on the subject!

[Gloria Hopkins]

I think I would like to hear from someone like you about symmetry, perspective, light...and how they are co-mingled with the traditional artistic methods...especially when composing a nature scene...Just my two cents...

I think you're asking how the traditional principles of art are employed in the art of photography. It starts waaaaay back with the 'pictorial' style of photography (origins in Europe) and ends up right here with our own Arthur Morris. Where would you like to start?

[James Alexander]

Hi Gloria-

First off, I am no expert on the subject matter. However, I've run hundreds of seminars and workshops over the years to adult learners, and a three hour, basically one-way session is extremely difficult to pull off--yes, Artie and George Lepp and other rock stars may be able to do it, and you might as well, but it is very tough. I strongly feel that to be the most successful in this length of session, you need to actively, aggressively involve your audience with large and small group activities such as discussions and exercises so that they can connect and apply your concepts. They will enjoy it more and definitely gain more. Besides, it much easier to facilitate rather than to lecture! Good luck and contact me if you'd like to discuss. Alex

[Gloria Hopkins]

You could talk about the importance of contrasts - lights and darks, soft focus and sharp focus, color contrasts, etc. Arranged properly, these contrasts give depth (I'm sure you know this!). You could burn some time on the subject!

Excellent, thank you so much! I have some pretty funny 'in-the-field' anecdotes that could burn a little time, too.

[Gloria Hopkins]

Hi Gloria-

First off, I am no expert on the subject matter. However, I've run hundreds of seminars and workshops over the years to adult learners, and a three hour, basically one-way session is extremely difficult to pull off--yes, Artie and George Lepp and other rock stars may be able to do it, and you might as well, but it is very tough. I strongly feel that to be the most successful in this length of session, you need to actively, aggressively involve your audience with large and small group activities such as discussions and exercises so that they can connect and apply your concepts. They will enjoy it more and definitely gain more. Besides, it much easier to facilitate rather than to lecture! Good luck and contact me if you'd like to discuss. Alex

Thanks very much James. I am pretty worried about filling three hours. I have the material, I just need to put it together in a way that won't bore folks to death.

I appreciate the interaction tip, but it's an online seminar. It can be interactive to a degree I guess, but nobody will be together. I will have to come up with creative ways to organize some interaction with them scattered around the world!

Have you ever done online seminars?

[WIlliam Maroldo]

Hi Gloria. I am not an expert on the subject, but I do not think that there is much difference between phothraphy and art per se'. One uses brushes, the other light. I wrote the following a while back that seems relavant to this discussion;
There is a line of thought that compositional rules are not necessary, and that a photographer just instictively knows what looks good. I content that he is creating snapshots that may serve his vanity but are not great photographs. Photography is a visual language, and much like a verbal language, has rules of syntax which make ideas more understandable. Visual language has rules as well. These are not strictly compositional, and also include simplicity, subject clarity, and contextual relevance. How effective the writer or photographer is using this "language", determines how effective he is in conveying an idea. Great writers do this very well. So do great photographers. Rules of composition have a rich historical base, as does language, and the understanding of both is inherant in culture, though not immediately recognizable. We have all seen countless photographs, and other images, and we have unconsciously learned the language and appreciate compositional balance, and the other factors that make up a great image. Since composition has so impressed our psyche, we reject random and un-thought out images just as we would fail to understand someone speaking gibberish. regards~Bill

[Tom Graham]

"...but it's an online seminar."
Yikes, everyone who has replied, think again :eek:
I have not given seminars, been to many professional educational ones -but- all live in person.
Being online I feel will take away an interactive "dimension" that you will have to compensate for. How, what? Sorry not much help. Let us know how it goes for you.
Tom

[Gloria Hopkins]

Hi Gloria. I am not an expert on the subject, but I do not think that there is much difference between phothraphy and art per se'. One uses brushes, the other light. I wrote the following a while back that seems relavant to this discussion;
There is a line of thought that compositional rules are not necessary, and that a photographer just instictively knows what looks good. I content that he is creating snapshots that may serve his vanity but are not great photographs. Photography is a visual language, and much like a verbal language, has rules of syntax which make ideas more understandable. Visual language has rules as well. These are not strictly compositional, and also include simplicity, subject clarity, and contextual relevance. How effective the writer or photographer is using this "language", determines how effective he is in conveying an idea. Great writers do this very well. So do great photographers. Rules of composition have a rich historical base, as does language, and the understanding of both is inherant in culture, though not immediately recognizable. We have all seen countless photographs, and other images, and we have unconsciously learned the language and appreciate compositional balance, and the other factors that make up a great image. Since composition has so impressed our psyche, we reject random and un-thought out images just as we would fail to understand someone speaking gibberish. regards~Bill

This is uncanny. In different words, it is exactly what I wrote about 'the visual language' in my book. Thanks, and I agree 100%!

[Gloria Hopkins]

"...but it's an online seminar."
Yikes, everyone who has replied, think again :eek:
I have not given seminars, been to many professional educational ones -but- all live in person.
Being online I feel will take away an interactive "dimension" that you will have to compensate for. How, what? Sorry not much help. Let us know how it goes for you.
Tom

Yea, I'm quite worried about the lack of interaction. There will be options to 'chat' I believe, and we can all hear each other. I've never done this before but the person coordinating it has done hundreds himself, and will have some good guidance about the interactivity stuff, and keeping it interesting. Thanks for the well wishes - I'm gonna need them!

Everyone has been absolutely wonderful. Thank you bunches and bunches!
Gloria

[Roger Clark]

Gloria,

Three hours is a long time, especially for a first talk. I've done many presentations, both in person and via inrernet and telecon, to national and international audiences. For a 3-hour presentation, I suggest splitting the time into at least 3 independent segments, perhaps 4. The switch in subject can help to revitalize the audience if some are starting to drift away. It's always good to have new material that no one has seen before, rather than just repeat what has already been published or is on websites. It also helps of the audience can ask questions, whether via telecon or other voice channel, or email.

I have many images that I never put on my web site, so I have good material that people have not seen.

Roger

[Gloria Hopkins]

Gloria,

Three hours is a long time, especially for a first talk. I've done many presentations, both in person and via inrernet and telecon, to national and international audiences. For a 3-hour presentation, I suggest splitting the time into at least 3 independent segments, perhaps 4. The switch in subject can help to revitalize the audience if some are starting to drift away. It's always good to have new material that no one has seen before, rather than just repeat what has already been published or is on websites. It also helps of the audience can ask questions, whether via telecon or other voice channel, or email.

I have many images that I never put on my web site, so I have good material that people have not seen.

Roger

Thanks Roger, we are thinking along the same lines. I thought I could break it up with Q&A every 1/2 hour or so. Not many people have seen my work so I'm not worried about covering old material! Thanks again!

[James Alexander]

Gloria-
Roger's idea is a good one. I do lots of online sessions, and I think your thoughts on having a break every 30 minutes or so is the way to go. Q&A, pop up polls (most of the technologies have them built in), and mini-assignments where you give them five minutes to think about then ask for examples of your topic/concept/principle that they have used. Ask for worst practices as everyone likes to hear them! Also ask them where/how they will try out something you presented that is new to them. Depending on the size of your audience you can open up the mikes every now and then aithough be wary of barking dogs in the background or the munch of potato chips. Finally, it is more work, but you could send out some pre-work ahead of them asking them to list their questions ahead of time and also share some examples during the session. I can tell by your approach that you are going to make this a big success. Please report back and tell us how it went. Best of luck. Alex

[James Alexander]

Gloria-one more thought. Another tool that works very well with the pop up poll is to have participants do a self assessment toward the end of your session. You will probably have introduces a set of core principles or best practices and you can easily turn into a self assessment, e.g., you have a list of five to ten best practices and each person gives them a score from one to five (Never--Always, whatever is appropriate). That gives them their own scorecard upon which to build their go-ahead plan for success. Most people like to talk about it and what they plan on doing to build on strengths and address gaps. Alex

[Gloria Hopkins]

Gloria-one more thought. Another tool that works very well with the pop up poll is to have participants do a self assessment toward the end of your session. You will probably have introduces a set of core principles or best practices and you can easily turn into a self assessment, e.g., you have a list of five to ten best practices and each person gives them a score from one to five (Never--Always, whatever is appropriate). That gives them their own scorecard upon which to build their go-ahead plan for success. Most people like to talk about it and what they plan on doing to build on strengths and address gaps. Alex

Thanks Alex: You have given me a ton of great ideas (and thanks for the insights) and I hope to integrate many (if not all) of them. Thanks so much. The idea of pre-work is outstanding and I can work on that right away.

I do intend to make this a big success. I figure if you're going to do something, strive for excellence. And once I get past my fears, I should have fun!

Thanks again everyone. I cannot fully express my gratitude for your help. Have a GREAT week!

Gloria

In case anyone wants to learn more about the seminar, here is the write-up: http://www.thedigitalphotoguy.com/2011/01/26/improve-your-composition-in-three-hours/

And here is the registration page: http://www.instantpresenter.com/Acco...D=E952D6868548