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Thread: Canon Lens advice for wildlife....

  1. #1
    WillRogers
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    Default Canon Lens advice for wildlife....

    Hi there

    I have just sold my Sigma 150-500 OS as I found the image quality was poor... it had muted colours, poor contrast, resolution and sharpness and also it needed to be stopped down to f/9 to f/11 to get decent shots at 500mm... which is hard in my part of the UK as it tends to be overcast or hazy...

    So I am now looking for a replacement... for Wildlife and Pets...
    My budget is roughly £1000, which is currently $1550
    which leaves me with the common dilemma of which telephoto lens to get...
    I have narrowed it down to a few quality lenses...

    100-400 f/4-5.6 L IS
    400 f/5.6 L
    300 f/4 L IS
    70-300 f/4-5.6 L IS (New one out!)

    but my problem, is do I buy a 100-400 or the 70-300L , which would seem most obvious, or get one of the prime lenses and save for a 70-200 F/4 L IS to use for pet photography?

    as for the 100-400.... the Image Quality at 400mm, are there just a few people who complain very loudly :p or is it actually worth testing every copy in the shop? :o

    at the moment I am leaning towards a 100-400 now, and a 7D in a few months
    or get a 400 5.6L now, and a 70-200 in a few months?

    any help would be great...

    Will

  2. #2
    pradeep jain
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    i would go for 400 f/5.6 as a better bet for a wildlifer as compared to 400mm of 100-400mm

  3. #3
    WillRogers
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    thanks for the reply pradeep

    It seems that the 400 prime is top of my list at the moment for it's AF, Image Quality and light-weight.
    I think one of these and a 70-200 would be a great combo for the future

    Will

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    You do not say which Camera you have now but I would go for the 400/5.6 and then save for the 70-200/4 or the 7D.

  5. #5
    WillRogers
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    thanks roy
    judging by your avatar I guess you also have the username Roy C :o

    I think I will get the 400mm and save up for a 7D or 7D Mk2, depends on whether Mr Cameron can stop the economy from collapsing again!

    only advice I now need is how to hold the lens properly when handholding.... as that is part of image sharpness!

    many thanks

    Will

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    You cannot go wrong with the 400mm F5.6 with any Canon camera body.

    400mm F5.6 is my main birding lens. It has worked fine with a 20D, 40D, 7D, 5D, 5D II.

    For many photographers, like myself, moving beyond the cost of the 400mm F5.6 or 300mm F4 IS is just too expensive (500 F4, 600mm, 800mm). So the 400mm F5.6 is the lens to use.

    400mm F5.6 is an excellent birding and nature lens. I use 300mm f4 IS for lower light shooting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WillRogers View Post
    thanks roy
    judging by your avatar I guess you also have the username Roy C :o

    I think I will get the 400mm and save up for a 7D or 7D Mk2, depends on whether Mr Cameron can stop the economy from collapsing again!

    only advice I now need is how to hold the lens properly when handholding.... as that is part of image sharpness!

    many thanks

    Will
    Hi Will, yep roy c. For hand holding the lens a good starting point for minimum shutter speed is focal length x Camera crop factor (so 1/640 sec) but this depends on technique. The best tip I can give for hand holding is to make sure that your arms are tucked in with the elbows touching your body - also I found it best to hold the 400/5.6 with your left hand right up under the hood. Always make use of any props around to rest against like walls or trees.
    If you do not use a tripod then a monopod is a lightweight option that I found useful at times. The other thing to remember with this lens is that it is tack sharp wide open (f5.6) so this will give you a little more shutter speed than having to stop down.

  8. #8
    WillRogers
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    thanks Paul and Roy

    I am decided that a 400 5.6 is the top of my list for a new lens (I will compare to a 100-400 and 300 F/4 in the shop just in case)

    as for hand holding... I think I will try adapting my rifle shooting technique...
    I will have to get a sling to attach to the tripod foot, that can wrap around my upper arm, then put my elbow into the loop, and tighten until the blood stops flowing!!
    hopefully I can remember to time with my pulse to minimise minor shakes!


    Will

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Here is my suggestion: purchase the 70-200 f/2.8L IS II along with two used series II TCs. You will have the best of all world's. It is my firm belief that this lens with the 2XII TC slays the 100-400 in terms of sharpness. I just sold my 70-200 f/2.8L and my 100-400 :) Next will be the 400 DO.

    You will cover a wide range of focal lengths and have IS to boot. If you have a 1.6 pro-sumer camera then I would recommend only the 1.4X II TC. If you have the funds, I would go for the series III TCs but going with the series II TCs would save you a ton of money.... I am selling a used 1.4X II TC for $125 (in decent condition).

    See recent Bulletins and blog posts for my enthusiasm with this combo including lots of great flight images...
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  10. #10
    WillRogers
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    Thanks for replying Arthur

    the new 70-200 Mk2 looks great, but a 70-200 Mk2 + 1.4x TC would set me back £1800... which is £750 more than the prime lens... :confused:

    I am however thinking of trying one out with converters when I pop into my local shop (30 miles away!)

    I have a feeling I will walk away with a prime lens, or nothing, and save for the 70-200 Mk2

    I am also thinking of getting a new tripod in a few months with a gimbal head
    (well, the manfrotto 393 head, which is similar but costs less!)

    oh well, maybe I will have to dip into my savings,
    but then I could end up with a 300 2.8, and no money to go places :p

    thanks for all the advice...
    time to remove bookmarks to other forums me thinks!

    Will

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    Will, it really depends on what subjects you shoot and in what light conditions. I shoot birds with 40d and 400f5.6L. You are welcome to look at my website to see what I am able to do with the gear.

    But yes, there are many situations in which I wish the lens had IS as 40d is not great at high ISO. Because of that, I always have to try and shoot in good light and in open terrain or with tripod. I dont miss zoom for birds but I think I will miss it when shooting large mammals...especially from a vehicle. One strong point about 400f5.6 is its lightning fast AF and there is no debate about that. There is also no debate about the sharpness/colors/contrast that this lens produces.

    About 100-400, you are right....the opinion about sharpness varies from 'very good' to 'not good' to 'lot of copy to copy variation'. Some folks like the pull-push zoom...some say it attracts dust. I cant comment as I have never used the lens but we have some folks here on the Avian forum who post stunning bird shots taken with the lens.....even flight shots. IS and range certainly are the strong points.

    300f/4 IS and 1.4x is a very versatile combo as well( 2 focal lengths and IS). You also get very small min. focussing distance to shoot butterflies, dragonflies etc. I used to use the non-IS version which was very very sharp but with TC, AF used to take a hit and flight photography was very hard with it. My reason for selling it and upgrading to the 400. Sharpness-wise, with the TC, it wasnt as sharp as the 400, especially wide-open....but still pretty good.

    I'd say think through the pros and cons with your needs in mind. Good luck.

  12. #12
    Danny J Brown
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    My 300/4 L IS is just as sharp and fast as my 500/4 L IS and it works just as well with the 1.4TCII which I use all the time with it. It is a great macro with the TC as you are still only 1.5 meter away from the subject. You could then get the 70-200 and not have such a jump to the next lens. You'd also have IS. I thought long and hard before I bought the 300 over the 400 and I've never looked back. Good luck.

    DB

    P.S. I use my 70-200/2.8 just for what you are talking about.....people and pets......great for that.

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillRogers View Post
    Thanks for replying Arthur

    the new 70-200 Mk2 looks great, but a 70-200 Mk2 + 1.4x TC would set me back £1800... which is £750 more than the prime lens... :confused:

    I am however thinking of trying one out with converters when I pop into my local shop (30 miles away!)

    I have a feeling I will walk away with a prime lens, or nothing, and save for the 70-200 Mk2

    I am also thinking of getting a new tripod in a few months with a gimbal head
    (well, the manfrotto 393 head, which is similar but costs less!)

    oh well, maybe I will have to dip into my savings,
    but then I could end up with a 300 2.8, and no money to go places :p

    thanks for all the advice...
    time to remove bookmarks to other forums me thinks!

    Will
    #1: You only live once :)

    #2: If you wanna hand hold some or most of the time, go with the 300f/4.

    #3: If you will be on a tripod for all but BIF, go with the 400 f/5.6.

    #4: Again, what is your camera body?

    #5: If you go for the 400 f/5.6 (no AF with pro-sumer bodies like the 40D, 50D, and the 7D) talk to me about your tripod/tripod head needs.

    :)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    #5: If you go for the 400 f/5.6 (no AF with pro-sumer bodies like the 40D, 50D, and the 7D) talk to me about your tripod/tripod head needs.

    :)
    The 400 f/5.6 autofocuses just fine with a 40D, 50D, 7D etc. Maybe you meant it won't autofocus with a teleconverter?

  15. #15
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    Yes. No AF with a TC :) :o
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

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  16. #16
    WillRogers
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    thanks for giving me even more things to worry abut :p
    I am using a 400D (XTi Rebel) at the moment
    hence why I am thinking about getting one lens and a 7D in the future fro better build quality, weather sealing, better AF and High ISO Noise quality...
    (I try not to use above 400 at the moment, which is hard in the UK!)

    I am leaning towards the 100-400 or Artie's suggestion of the new 70-200 f/2.8 Mk2...
    however the primes still hold the lead in terms of IQ and AF speed...

    When I had my Sigma 150-500 OS (that I hated!) I never really tried Bird In Flight shots, as I tend to get pigeons and crows, which aren't that inspiring! which makes me think a Hide/Blind and any lens other than the 400 5.6L would serve me better....

    I do have some deer near my house, and I was thinking of setting up with a hide and waiting, but the 400 5.6 could be too long, as could a 300 F/4, and I could end up accidentally cropping off the back legs etc.

    You have all given me a lot to think about, and for that I thank you...

    as for you only live once :) .... If I ended up with a 70-200 Mk2, 1.4 and 2x TC's and a 7d... my parents may make sure I only live once! :p

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    a few other thoughts ...

    Certainly you are not forced to use a tripod with the 400mm F5.6 and get good shots. Unless the light level is low and you need F4 or F2.8 lenses. The 400mm F5.6 works well in sunny New Mexico.

    I hand hold the 400mm F5.6 on a 5D II often. I also used it hand held with a 40D & 7D in the past.
    I think IS would help for non-panning shots (stationary birds). If Canon gives us a 400mm F5.6 IS I would buy one.

    The Jobu Designs JR3 works quite well as a Gimbal Head for the 400mm F5.6 and 300 F4 IS when tripod is desirable.

    I have always found that 1.4X tele-converters slowed focusing down too much. At least with non 1-series cameras I have used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Granone View Post
    The Jobu Designs JR3 works quite well as a Gimbal Head for the 400mm F5.6 and 300 F4 IS when tripod is desirable.
    Yep, I agree Paul, I used a Jobu JR when I had the 400/5.6 and it was just right for lenses of this weight/size.

  19. #19
    Johann Tang
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post

    You will cover a wide range of focal lengths and have IS to boot. If you have a 1.6 pro-sumer camera then I would recommend only the 1.4X II TC.
    Hi, I am completely new to birding and photography as a whole. I currently own a 7D and 70-200 f/2.8L MKII. What are the reasons for only recommending the 1.4 and not the 2x?

    Thanks.

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    With a 7D at 200mm with the 1.4X II TC you would be at 448mm. With a MIV and a 2X at 200 you would be at 520mm, roughly comparable.....

    With the 7D and the 2X at 200 you would be at 640mm and have pretty slow AF. It can be done. I have post some stuff somewhere with the combo and it was amazingly sharp... Not sure where however.

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  21. #21
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    How much does the JOBU JR weigh?
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  22. #22
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    Black Widow Jr.3 Gimbal Kit

    BWG-J3K (Junior 3)
    weight: 1lb 7oz
    size: 8" x 8"
    max carry weight: 12lbs

    Recommended for:

    70-200 F2.8/F4, 300mm F2.8/F4, 100-400 zoom, 150-400 zoom, 400mm F5.6, 400mm DO, etc.

    link: http://www.jobu-design.com/catalog/i...54/7937720.htm

    It is quite smooth in operation and built to last. Makes a lightweight combo with my Gitzo 1325 CF tripod.

  23. #23
    WillRogers
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    I will have a look at the gimbal heads...
    I have a feeling that the new tripod and gimbal will have to come later, as they are quite expensive when you look at a £1000 lens, with a £240-400 for a Gimbal!
    has anyone here used the Manfrotto/Bogen 393 head... it is similar but would save money and looks fine for a 100-400 or similar weight
    I have just tested my hand-holding technique today with a 50mm lens on my 400D... I got sharp results at 1/6th of a second.... yes 1/6th... if I could be that steady with a 400mm 5.6 I would love it! (it would be like 1/50th at 400mm!) maybe that is expecting a lot!

  24. #24
    BPN Member Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    interesting dilemma...I would love to see the results of the 70-200mm f2.8 II with the TCs

    I use a 100-400 exclusively because frankly that's all I have and can afford at this time...my copy is nice and sharp though, even at 400mm...usually a factory-approved calibration should sort out any softness issues you might have.

    The 400 5.6 is tack sharp, but I just love the versatility of the 100-400 zoom for wildlife - allowing you to get various comps when the action is moving too fast to put on TCs or change lenses. The push-pull hasn't really given me hassles with dust, and believe me we have a lot of dust :)
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