Digital Photography without post processing?!

[Chris Brennan]

I'm good friends with a photographer who is constantly complaining about the quality of his gear and photography but refuses to do any post-processing. He's got superb gear: a Canon 50D, 20D, and some nice L lenses including a 500/f4. He likes to shoot birds and wildlife but he shoots everything in AWB, and in RAW and he uses BreezeBrowser Pro as his Raw converter.... and that's it! He is constantly complaining to me about the sharpness of his images and why they are under or over-exposed, or have poor contrast or something else. He's gone so far as to take his gear up to Canon to have them look at it because he thinks there's something wrong with it (there isn't). I've told him time and time again that he needs to learn a little Photoshop and yet he continues to balk. I've pretty much run out of suggestions and I really can't think of anything else to tell him... Can any of you?!

[Nicki Gwynn Jones]

Hi Chris,
Perhaps you could persuade your friend to join this forum...:D

[Chris Brennan]

Hi Chris,
Perhaps you could persuade your friend to join this forum...:D

Trust me, I've tried...

[Daniel Cadieux]

Perhaps you could sit down with him and have him post-process one of YOUR images the way he does for his. It might open his eyes, at least about his gear!;)

[John Chardine]

Because of the anti-aliasing filter in front of digital camera sensors, the RAW image out of the camera is naturally a little blurred. The strength of this filter varies between camera bodies and is inversely related to sensor-site size. In my experience the 50D has a fairly strong filter; in my 5D mkI the filter is weak and images are very sharp out of the body. For this reason, at the very least, some post-processing in the form of sharpening of digital images is usually required.

Perhaps understanding this one fact may move your friend in the direction of doing some post-processing?

[Dan Brown]

Perhaps you could sit down with him and have him post-process one of YOUR images the way he does for his. It might open his eyes, at least about his gear!;)

Also, you should post process one of HIS images and show him with a basic workflow how much sharper etc. his own work looks!

[Chris Brennan]

Also, you should post process one of HIS images and show him with a basic workflow how much sharper etc. his own work looks!

Actually I've done that several times.. I've taken several of his images and ran through it through my basic workflow which included a levels adjustment, a minor curves adjustment, and a small bit of USM. He seemed genuinely surprised but I guess not enough.

In my initial post, I used Photoshop as the description of an image editor because it's what I use. But it can be cumbersome to less experienced users so I think that perhaps my friend should be introduced to a simpler editor such as Elements... does this make some sense?

[Chris Brennan]

Because of the anti-aliasing filter in front of digital camera sensors, the RAW image out of the camera is naturally a little blurred. The strength of this filter varies between camera bodies and is inversely related to sensor-site size. In my experience the 50D has a fairly strong filter; in my 5D mkI the filter is weak and images are very sharp out of the body. For this reason, at the very least, some post-processing in the form of sharpening of digital images is usually required.

Perhaps understanding this one fact may move your friend in the direction of doing some post-processing?

Thanks John... I'll definitely point this out to him... it may jump-start the process.

[Dan Brown]

In my initial post, I used Photoshop as the description of an image editor because it's what I use. But it can be cumbersome to less experienced users so I think that perhaps my friend should be introduced to a simpler editor such as Elements... does this make some sense?

I think that starting off with PS or lightroom would be better. Getting started off right so he doesn't have to learn them later. I should say that I have never used Elements so I don't know how similar it is to PS.

[Ian McHenry]

When I started digital photography the shear compexity of Photoshop appeared as something I was unlikely to aspire to.
With print film and bird photography it was just a question of checking the end result and possibly getting the camera shop to darken by a couple of stops.
With digital the thought of learning about layers and masks and blurring Bgs was for the top guns.
Could you suggest he download a free Picasa so he could compare auto color, auto contrast and I'm feeling lucky and let him take it from there at his own speed.
Cheers: Ian Mc ( Now use PSE).

[Roger Clark]

You can lead a horse to water....but you can't make him drink.

Roger

[Juan Carlos Vindas]

You can lead a horse to water....but you can't make him drink.

Roger

That's a good one Roger!

[Arthur Morris]

To say it another way, you could take a deep breath and start loving what is. (www.THEWORK.com)

[Alan Melle]

Frankly, if he doesn't want to do any post processing shooting in RAW is a waste. Give him a good set-up for shooting JPEGs and let him go.

[Kaustubh Deshpande]

what he probably does not want to do is any advanced post processing like cuves, cloning, layers, masks, selective sharpening, selective NR, dodging, burning etc. You should probably try and persuade him to take baby steps. Tell him there is "processing" and then there is "post processing". He might be open to the idea of "processing" if he is shooting RAW. Try DPP...it is simple and he can do basic processing using exposure, contrast, shadow, highlights, color tone, sharpness sliders, select WB, picture style etc. Ask him to do basic processing and convert to jpg and if he does not want to do anything further on jpg, fine. Once, he gets a good idea of what values he prefers on those sliders for most of his shots, he can customize a picture style in-camera with all those values. DPP remembers in-camera settings even for RAW files. Then his "processing steps" will be drastically reduced because when he opens the RAW file in DPP, processing would already have been done based on those presets. If he likes the result, just press ctrl-d to convert to jpg.

And yes, tell him that even in film days, there was processing...its just that the labs did it for him :-)

BTW, you are a very good and patient friend I must say.

[Susan Griffith]

Just an idea, you might want to try showing him DPP, since it came with his canon gear. It does a pretty good job with the post processing...

-Susan

[Joerg Rockenberger]

I completely agree with Kaustubh. It's easy to forget how complex post-processing and especially Photoshop can appear. For instance, it's easy to really screw up by choosing incorrect or inconsistent settings, e.g. for color management.
Also, if image quality is limited by in the field issues (e.g. QUOTE: "why they are under or over-exposed"?) then it might be actually counterproductive to spend focus and energy on post-processing. Addressing these issues first should be the priority.

DPP is a great starting point. Especially if one is new and not hung up on a particular workflow from using Photoshop/Lightroom/Aperture etc. Once he sees that he can improve his images on his own and with relative ease he'll make the next step if he's really committed to making better images or just wants to get out of the house...:)

JR

[christopher galeski]

think you should tell your friend to try another hobby.:D just joking.

[Robert Amoruso]

Well I know that when I started digital photography, Artie's Digital Basics File really helped me. You can recommend that to him.

[BillPelzmann]

He certainly does appear to have a software phobia. And based on all that you have done, I doubt that his aversion can be cured. So, I agree, you should convince him to stop shooting raw and find a good JPEG setting that will keep him happy. Shooting raw with no post processing is just silly !!!

[Chris Brennan]

Since I hadn't checked this thread in a few days, I thought I would this morning... lots of new and great suggestions! Thank you all!!

The DPP suggestion is good because he doesn't have to buy anything new, and it's simple enough for him to see the changes. If I can get his head wrapped around this program, I may leave it alone since it's all about a "comfort zone". If he still doesn't like it, persuading him to go the JPEG route makes the most sense.