Is this site dying out or are my stats wrong?

[Bill Jobes]

Glad to contribute to the Guidelines, Captain.

Please PM regarding the Photojournalism forum.

[Giulio Zanni]

I just regret that in this part of Europe, at this time of the year, there are not many photographic opportunities for birds, so I am not active in posting on this great site as I would like to be. Otherwise, BPN is the bible for bird photography.

Giulio

[Richard Stern]

Hi,

I was off line for 2 weeks, so I have tried to catch up with this thread and others all in one go.

Frankly I'm amazed at the dis-satisfaction apparently expressed by some people. Where else can you get valuable critiques done in person by some of the best nature photographers on the planet for such a small fee? In the couple of years that I have been a member, it has been a better learning experience for me than anything else related to bird photography, and I think the small fee is excellent value for money. Yes, sometimes the comments are rather abrasive and not particularly gentle, but they remind me of the best teachers we had years ago at Med school, and they're the ones I still remember. Now, when I take pictures of a bird, I always (try to!) take note of the head angle, the background and the lighting, and I now know much better some of the limitations of my equipment. I have also learned how to critique others' work in other forums and in person.

My only issue with BPN in general is that there is still a rather limited number of people who repeatedly critique the images (e.g. the moderators and a few others). That 's nobody's fault but the members, and I think my own experience answers the question as to why - although I have started taking Artie's advice and try to post more comments than images, I still feel a rank amateur compared with the regulars here, and I'm still unsure of the value or otherwise of my comments. If many of my posts receive comments about head angle, sharpness, bg noise etc., who am I to criticise others? I suspect others feel the same.

A while back I saw a thread in another forum, where someone posted some bird images that, frankly, left a lot to be desired. When another poster made the honest comment that that was the case, the original poster complained. The reply was -Then post on BPN if you dare! and that to me was as good a recommendation for BPN as any I have seen.

There are of course other websites and forums that showcase superb bird, nature and wildlife images, and some of these invite comments - but often they're "Great shot!" type comments that do much for the ego but little for the learning. We all like to have our ego stroked from time to time, and when I want that, I post elsewhere. I have seen fabulous images on the web from people who don't seem to post on BPN, and I wish they would. I have also seen images posted on BPN that are also posted to other forums, but never with the same degree, if any, of critiquing.

If people feel that BPN is failing, or too expensive, then my advice is Go and find somewhere else just as good if you can, or start your own!

Cheers,

Richard

[Flavio Rose]

As someone who mostly lurks, because I can't think of anything to say about such excellent images, I think the site is great. I especially like Avian ID. Also, I haven't paid any money, instead hosting my images externally, and yet derived considerable benefit.

I am a bit irritated at the gear forum at this point, however, and do regret the departure of certain formerly prolific posters. It's not clear to me that there can be a really useful gear forum anywhere due to the amazing variability of people's impressions of gear.

[James Shadle]

I am a bit irritated at the gear forum at this point,

Me too!!!(and I the moderator there). I have big plans for that forum - gear drives traffic.
However as I mentioned my workload is considerable right now.

Keep checking, we have RSS ability so we can have the news as it's happening. Having the latest equipment news and REVIEWS are just around the corner.

James

[Arthur Morris]

Like gear? See here.

[Christopher C.M. Cooke]

Thank you for the above post Artie.

PS. My Bank Manager, Credit Card Company, Accountant, Australian Taxation Office, Customs and Excise, International Goods Carrier and The US Postal Service would like to thank you and assure you that you will be on their Christmas Card List from now on.

Sadly, my wife has advertised for a Hit Man.

It has been really nice knowing you. :)

[Norm Dulak]

I am a bit irritated at the gear forum at this point, however, and do regret the departure of certain formerly prolific posters. It's not clear to me that there can be a really useful gear forum anywhere due to the amazing variability of people's impressions of gear.

Flavio, you said a mouth full, especially for Nikon shooters. BPN is almost exclusively a Canon club, and while there is some help for Nikon people, it's not very significant.

If you need further proof of that, look at the posting of Arthur Morris above: "Like gear? See here." And when you click on that link, you'll see nothing but Canon lenses and accessories.:(

Thank goodness for the Nikonians!

[Daniel Cadieux]

Good thing you got James on your side Norm!:)

[Norm Dulak]

Good thing you got James on your side Norm!:)

Yup! We've circled our wagons and are making our last stand together!!! :D

Was that a Canon I heard going off in the distance?

[John Hawkins]

I just have to respond to this. I am a verrrrry amateur photographer. Still struggling to improve. I am here to tell you, the knowledge I have gained here is unbelievable. I used to go to those "other sites" and I always had such great praise for my photos. I was my toughest critic tho and soon realized I was wasting my time there. The top notch photographers that gather on this site and give of themselves unselfishly is beyond my belief. What other profession would teach their trade for free? I would pay 20.00 a month to use this site. (Don't try to bill me James). I have improved so much from help on this site, I couldn't began to tell you. I am just like anyone else, when I post a picture, I think it is pretty good and feel proud. Sometimes the critque hurts. But just for a moment. Once I read the responses, I begin to agree most of the time and start to feel better that I just learned something. So take my 2 cents for what it is worth. I for one think this site is invaluable.
John

[Arthur Morris]

Hey John, Your comments put a big smile on my face. Especially the $20 per month bit! I am thrilled that you see how hard we are working to stay on course: honest critiques done gently (or in my case, sometimes not all that gently :) But I do try. Will see you on the boards :)

[Chris Ober]

Here you go Nikon guys.... http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...574#post570574

Flavio, you said a mouth full, especially for Nikon shooters. BPN is almost exclusively a Canon club, and while there is some help for Nikon people, it's not very significant.

If you need further proof of that, look at the posting of Arthur Morris above: "Like gear? See here." And when you click on that link, you'll see nothing but Canon lenses and accessories.:(

Thank goodness for the Nikonians!

[James Shadle]

Flavio, you said a mouth full, especially for Nikon shooters. BPN is almost exclusively a Canon club, and while there is some help for Nikon people, it's not very significant.

If you need further proof of that, look at the posting of Arthur Morris above: "Like gear? See here." And when you click on that link, you'll see nothing but Canon lenses and accessories.:(

Thank goodness for the Nikonians!

Norm,
One of my nick names is Darth Vader. I have been on the "dark side"(you know black lenses;)) a long time.

As I mentioned, the gear forum will soon live up to my expectations.

[Norm Dulak]

Norm,
One of my nick names is Darth Vader. I have been on the "dark side"(you know black lenses;)) a long time.

As I mentioned, the gear forum will soon live up to my expectations.

Two thoughts. The dark side distinction is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain, with LensCoat covering almost every big lens! :p And I look forward to the gear forum improvements. Meanwhile, I'll just have to Klingon! :D

[Myer Bornstein]

This discussion is changing, we are now getting into Nikon/Canon. On my last 2 photo shoots with a group, the first in Alaska was probably 7525 in favor of Nikon and the last with Artie. I was the only Nikon user. And I kept getting ribbed about it. However, all things aside, the critiques and discussion on how to improve your photography doesn't matter what system you are using it is how you take your picture and what you do with it afterwards. BPN does a great job in teaching us how to improve our pictures both ways, and I'm glad to see they will continue doing so.

[Hazel Grant]

I can't believe people are complaining about $20 a year for this site! When I think of all I've learned here, of the community of interested people, etc......

[Arthur Morris]

This discussion is changing, we are now getting into Nikon/Canon. On my last 2 photo shoots with a group, the first in Alaska was probably 7525 in favor of Nikon and the last with Artie. I was the only Nikon user. And I kept getting ribbed about it. However, all things aside, the critiques and discussion on how to improve your photography doesn't matter what system you are using it is how you take your picture and what you do with it afterwards. BPN does a great job in teaching us how to improve our pictures both ways, and I'm glad to see they will continue doing so.

You are right Myer: it ain't the camera and it ain't the lens. And it certainly ain't the camera system.

And in the long run, this thread has turned out to be in--large part--an affirmation that we are doing things right here and that BPN is a great place to be (aside from the opinions of a very few folks who choose to emphasize any and all negatives aspects that they can come up with).

[Katie Rupp]

Echoing what's already been said, this is the best $20 I've ever spent! Thanks to what I've learned as a result of BPN membership and participation, I moved from rank amateur to putting out some respectable work, including a Best in Show award at a juried photo exhibit this past summer. Though sometimes it was painful, the critiques and comments have hellped (and are still helping) me in so many ways. Having the opportunity to interact with photographers from all over the world, and better yet, meeting some of them has been a great experience and gives me the sense of community.

Perhaps this thread was needed to talk about the changes that happened in August. That said, here's my thanks to James, Artie and all the moderators and fellow members/participants who post their work and take the time to foster learning and growth. And I have to add that I was reluctant to critique others work but once you get past the initial apprehension, the process actually helps you grow and is the best way to give back.

I'll have some more, please.

Katie Rupp

[Arthur Morris]

Hey Katie, Big congrats on the best in show. And TSMFYMTKW-TAGA. YPABSOMF = Thanks so much for your more than kind words--they are greatly appreciated. You put a big smile on my face :)

[John Chardine]

I've been away for a while but have followed this thread. There's lots potentially to say but I'll stick to what I know best. I am a scientist in my day job and integral to the scientific process is exposing your work to peer review. The process involves writing a manuscript based on your research, on your own or with others, polishing it up several times and then submitting it to a science journal for consideration. The journal editor then turns around and sends the manuscript to usually 2 or 3 independent peers for candid review. My experience over the years is generally that you submit what you think is the best paper you have ever written only to have it c r a p p e d on by one or both reviewers, or maybe praised by just one of them. Early on this is devastating but as you mature you realise the value of this system to ultimately produce the best published science possible. And if you don't get discouraged, the process hugely improves your research and writing skills so long as you maintain the attitude that life-long learning is the key.

I mention this because I am struck by how similar BPN works. You submit an image for peer review and comments both positive and constructively negative come back. If you are a life-long learner, you soak up all this information (both + and -) like a sponge and use it for your next endeavor, and the process works to incrementally improve your skills.

One key to this process is receiving honest opinion on what you have produced (the other is being a life-long learner), and that's what separates in my opinion, BPN from the so-called competitors out there. Receiving constructive but negative opinion on something you have produced can be a bitter pill but it is the only way I know of to progress beyond where you are now. Finally, if this process is not for you, then that is absolutely fine. To each his/her own. In the same way, if I had such a thin skin that I could not take having my nose rubbed in the caca every now and then I would have long since left the science field.

[Christopher C.M. Cooke]

Very well put John, sums it up nicely. :)

[Paul Lagasi]

Ditto, Ditto, Ditto...John I couldn't have put it better myself....:confused:...no seriously I couldn't have.

When I first started here I was a bit thin skinned at comments on some of my photos..but you get over it or move on and lose out.

$20.00 dollars a year, come one folks we're using cameras and lenses that cost thousands..and I've learned cropping, color, sharpening halos ;) and composition. My Wife is a registrar of the Canadian Photo collection and says how some (not all) of my images have improved since joining.

Best of all OOTB, Macro and other forms of photography, I would never have tried...

Made a lot of friends...some I've met and some I will meet some day...

My 2% of a dollar...

[Juan Carlos Vindas]

I am arriving late here and don't want to comment strictly on the top issue, but I see that one comment on someone's image but never receive any advise back from this poster, I could include names if I have to but that is not going to help. Just for all of us to understand how important it is to receive feedback from others.

[Christopher C.M. Cooke]

Juan, you are in my opinion, quite correct, in that if someone posts images on a forum for critique and receives some critique good or bad it would appear to be the polite and professional thing to do to respond to the Member who made the effort and took the time to critique the image. :)

[alexgwoodruff]

I am (by comparison to the other posters on this thread) a VERY new participant to this forum and although my voice is lost in the crowd I thought this topic could benefit from the viewpoint of the new guy. I am a member of several photography forums, I have seen some die, I have lost interest in others... I am now at the point where I frequent 2 forums. The first is a general photography forum with critiques by other members - I love it there, it is supportive, friendly and among the birding threads I have made some good online contacts. My main concern with the forum is that the critiques are seldom constructive, usually the responses to an image tend to be 'cool shot', 'great timing', 'nice capture' etc. It is nice to get these back-pats, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy, but does nothing for the improvement of my technique, my understanding or my creativity.
By chance I stumbled across this forum (after reading one of Mr Morris' books and googling his name to find more tutorials) - I headed to the critiques and was absolutely thunderstruck by the expanse of knowledge and wisdom within these pages, I had no idea that such finite differences in the head angle could benefit an image, and what on earth are virtual feet?
I spend hours trawling the threads picking up titbits of information, awed by the images and trying desperately to find any amount of credibility to my own voice so that I can add a comment... who wants to have these honest, no holding back critiques to be followed by my 'cool shot' response! My ignorance is too painful to put on display alongside the esteemed photographers I see here.
I am grateful to have found this place, to be taking advantage of the free education and to look through the threads and see the names of photographers that I recognise, admire and whose work I aspire to equal.
Thank you to everyone who contributes to this site; be it as a contributor or as part of the admin. Being here will surely help my photography in ways that I could not have dreamed of.
I will add to the forum as I am able - this I promise! In the meantime please know that you all are hugely appreciated.

[Christopher C.M. Cooke]

And just how much were you paid for that eloquent dissertation espousing the wonders of a forum that most of us accept as simply the norm.

I can also point you at at least 2 Australian forums on the fine hobby of photography knowing that when I post photographs taken after consuming vast quantities of low quality "Vin Very Ordinaire" knowing that I will receive glowing praise for the wonderful way the bird looked despite the fact it had its back to me, the glowing tributes as to the wonderful lighting though I had forgotten to turn the flash on for that exquisite photo of a Powerful Owl not to mention the "Goodonya mate great Eagle" when tucked in the lower corner of a bush setting was a small dead sparrow.

BPN, is slightly more refined than that and we love the fact that most of our fine photographers were, in another life, both book and film critics and consequently hated by all mankind.

Despite that they do teach us to be like them, "if we survive."

Ask for a refund. :) :)

And Alex, please do not take me seriously, even my wife does not and thanks for chiming in.:)

[peter delaney]

Eish.....thats the last time I go away safari for 3 weeks...:)
My 2 cents ... I am a proud member of BPN,ODP and NS... Photography has been my passion for over 13 years, the last 4 have been dedicated to Nature photography... this year on a personal note has been my best, I have achieved and come very close to personal goals that I had set myself.....I know in my heart and soul that without this site and other two my learning curve would have been much harder and longer to achieve those goals.... so a big thank you to the mods..[esp LandScape] for there tireless work..and to fellow members who also critique...... I must confess and apologize for my lack of commenting on other member images... my posting rate is terrible... I will do my best to improve....

One of the important things that attracted me to BPN was the professionalism and etiquette to the critique and the respect members showed one and other in their posting ... long may this continue..

[James Shadle]

I am (by comparison to the other posters on this thread) a VERY new participant to this forum and although my voice is lost in the crowd I thought this topic could benefit from the viewpoint of the new guy. I am a member of several photography forums, I have seen some die, I have lost interest in others... I am now at the point where I frequent 2 forums. The first is a general photography forum with critiques by other members - I love it there, it is supportive, friendly and among the birding threads I have made some good online contacts. My main concern with the forum is that the critiques are seldom constructive, usually the responses to an image tend to be 'cool shot', 'great timing', 'nice capture' etc. It is nice to get these back-pats, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy, but does nothing for the improvement of my technique, my understanding or my creativity.
By chance I stumbled across this forum (after reading one of Mr Morris' books and googling his name to find more tutorials) - I headed to the critiques and was absolutely thunderstruck by the expanse of knowledge and wisdom within these pages, I had no idea that such finite differences in the head angle could benefit an image, and what on earth are virtual feet?
I spend hours trawling the threads picking up titbits of information, awed by the images and trying desperately to find any amount of credibility to my own voice so that I can add a comment... who wants to have these honest, no holding back critiques to be followed by my 'cool shot' response! My ignorance is too painful to put on display alongside the esteemed photographers I see here.
I am grateful to have found this place, to be taking advantage of the free education and to look through the threads and see the names of photographers that I recognise, admire and whose work I aspire to equal.
Thank you to everyone who contributes to this site; be it as a contributor or as part of the admin. Being here will surely help my photography in ways that I could not have dreamed of.
I will add to the forum as I am able - this I promise! In the meantime please know that you all are hugely appreciated.

"a VERY new participant to this forum and although my voice is lost"
I heard you loud and clear:)

[Arthur Morris]

Furthermore to Alex, First off, thanks for you kind words. Next, as far as critiquing is concerned: it is simple. If you like an image, simply tell us what you like about it. If there is something that you do not like about an image, let us know that too and why.

[Eric Virkler]

I put in my 2 cents so many posts back it's been long forgotten. To adjust for inflation I need to add one more.

I don't know if anyone else feels this way but maybe you could help out my way of thinking. I've done very little critiquing, therefore to be fair I've done very little posting (of images). The main reason is that if I post critiques of a bunch of images, I don't want to receive automated notification that another response to that post has been added. (99% of those posts will pertain to the image and not to me) I also don't want to go back to each post where I commented to see if they had a question about my critique. I don't want to leave a critique and never look back, for the obvious reason that it would be rude to the poster if he/she has a question for me and never respond due to never seeing it. Artie, how do you handle this?. You comment often and always respond to other's questions about your comments. Do you spend endless hours viewing all the comments, do you set it up for automated notification? I guess I'm just trying to find a way to do this without having to spend too much time in front of the computer (so I can go spend more time with my son).

It may seem silly but it's probably the biggest reason I haven't commented more often.

Thanks.

Eric Virkler
Faces of Nature Photography
www.ericjvirkler.com

[Arthur Morris]

Hi Erik, Thanks for re-visiting this important post. I reply to instant notifications. I recommend that everyone do the same. Otherwise, you are gonna miss something. Some folks do not even bother to check their own posts. On occasion I have spent five minutes on crafting a substantive critique, even created a repost, asked a question or two, and never heard back from the original poster. I do not click on every Reply Notification (RN), only those where I asked a question or where there was a possible issue of one sort or the other. The system is supposed to work so that if you do re-visit a thread after receiving a RN, you will not receive another. That works sometimes, but sometimes it does not. There is however, a simple solution: Reply to Instant Notifications. When you get a reply to a thread that you are sure that you do not wish to follow, simply hit the link that says,

"To unsubscribe from this thread, please visit this page:
http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/subscription.php?do=removesubscription&type=thread&subscriptionid=220186&auth=00657ecc032156e61f859781f7206bed"

I would never hit that one as it is for this thread :)

In truth, I go try to take a glance at most of the threads that I comment on just to make sure that I am not being rude to anyone. No matter how careful I am, I do miss a question every once in a while. In most cases, I am gently reminded. As here in Pane #9.

The short answer is, you will get out of BPN what you put into it. Do note however that there are some excellent photographers who drop off their images for critique and rarely if ever post comments on the work of others. I choose not to comment there.

I hope that my suggestions and comments prove helpful. And I do hope that you make it back here to read them :)

[Roger Clark]

Eric,

The way I do it: I do not have notifications to threads turned on. But every thread I start or reply to is a subscribed thread. When I log in, I I go to quick links and click on subscribed threads from the pull down menu. Threads with new posts are in bold. I go to each one and read and reply as appropriate. Then I check many of the forums for new posts. Seems pretty efficient and the system keeps track of everything.

Roger

[Michael Gerald-Yamasaki]

Folks,

Greetings. A comment about critiquing... As I've seen a few times:

it is simple. If you like an image, simply tell us what you like about it. If there is something that you do not like about an image, let us know that too and why.

I've wondered, it is simple, but how come the seemingly dearth of comments on Avian outside that of the moderators, more on ETL (but not without prompting by the moderators from time to time)?

I think honest critiquing given and taken is hard work, while simple. It's hard to swim against the tide as some folks say. There is ample feedback for posting images, but is there enough feedback for posting critiques?

I've thought that one way to increase the number of critiques is to, well, critique the critiques... especially when someone posts a critique that is particularly insightful and/or obviously taken a lot of thought. These do not necessarily need to be from the OP. And the insight that is gained need not be in the application to the OP, IMO (e.g. Oh, cool, so that's how you use curves to increase contrast.)

The moderators do a great job in modeling good critiquing behavior. Eliciting the same from others might need some reinforcement.

Cheers,

-Michael-

[Randy Stout]

Michael:

I try to give credit to folks when they do a good critique. Esp. if you are a late poster in a thread, often most of the ground has been covered, so if someone has stated it particularly well ahead of you, let them know. I agree about positive reinforcement.

So, along those line, ' you brought up a good point' Thanks:D

Randy

[Desmond Chan]

Michael:

I try to give credit to folks when they do a good critique. Esp. if you are a late poster in a thread, often most of the ground has been covered, so if someone has stated it particularly well ahead of you, let them know. I agree about positive reinforcement.

So, along those line, ' you brought up a good point' Thanks:D

Randy

There you go. To critique, all you have to do is to say:

1. what you like;
2. what you don't like;
3. "agree with the great comments above".

Or any combo of the above.

Five comments made in one sec :D

[Christopher C.M. Cooke]

There you go. To critique, all you have to do is to say:

1. what you like;
2. what you don't like;
3. "agree with the great comments above".

Or any combo of the above.

I might add,
1. what you like; and why you like it.
2. what you don't like; and what you may have done differently and why.
3. "agree with the great comments above". No change here.

There is nothing to enthuse a person more that the belief that the person critiquing the image has the best intentions to help and not just making a passing comment.

Anyone who has teaching in their blood (and we do have one or two here) will understand that going the extra distance can make all the difference in the world to someone's continuing interest in their chosen subject.

[Hilary Hann]

This is an interesting discussion and I'm not sure whether I can offer much in addition to what has been said already. I consider myself a fairly new member as far as regular postings, well it seems like just yesterday when I made my first tentative steps posting images but I have found BPN invaluable for the following reasons:
1. As a professional photographer I find I get bogged down in day to day, money earning photography. BPN has given me a creative outlet and meant that I can share creative ideas with other like minded people. That is good.
2. I make myself critique at least 5 images to each one I post, usually more. I have found that this is the hardest thing I've done here but possibly the most instructive as far as learning. The more I analyse an image, the more I learn about my own photography.
3. I am learning how to negotiate the huge egos which most photographers seem to have (not me of course! :p ). Good or bad is irrelevant, learning to communicate and get information from them is the important thing.
4. I also found the exodus of some big name, regular posters quite upsetting. It felt like losing old, trusted friends. Life sucks, you move on, but it takes time to get the balance back.
5. I have found my niche areas of photography interest and am happily exploiting these with lots of support and encouragement.

Sometimes we stumble, but I'm happy to continue posting and commenting here (and anywhere else for that matter), along with the regular seminars and workshops and competitions I participate in. Always something new to learn.

Thanks guys. :D

[Kaustubh Deshpande]

I was on vacation and hence could not participate in this thread at the time. Spent some time going through it piece-by-piece.

All I want to say is that if there is an issue with participation/number of comments/ quality of comments, then we, partipants and members, are a part of the problem and should/will ultimately be the solution. So we should strive to do that. There is only so much moderators can do. Moreover, they travel more than most of us and might not always be able to do daily comments. Lets not forget that this site is great because of everyone's participation. The void left by some heavy hitters will have to be filled by us and I am hoping it will be. I know I'll keep doing what I have been.

[Arthur Morris]

Hillary and Kaustubh, Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Obviously, I wholeheartedly agree across the board.

[Harshad Barve]

IMHO This website is photography learning institute

Just my 2 cents

[Ken Watkins]

IMHO This website is photography learning institute

Just my 2 cents

I certainly could not disagree with that statement.

I for one have loads more images to post mainly Wildlife but a few Birds as well, and I greatly appreciate the comments on my recent efforts in that department, I think it shows me that I am slowly improving in this extremely difficult area.

I am a little dissapointed with Wildlife lately in terms of the amount of critiques but certainly not in the incredible standard of posts. I suppose I only have myself to blame for resigning as Moderator, which was as it turns out not well thought through,.

I tried the other sites and found them totally lacking in what I need, what a waste of money they were!

[Harshad Barve]

I am a little dissapointed with Wildlife lately in terms of the amount of critiques but certainly not in the incredible standard of posts. I suppose I only have myself to blame for resigning as Moderator, which was as it turns out not well thought through,.

Totally Agreed

I suppose I only have myself to blame for resigning as Moderator, which was as it turns out not well thought through,.

Though I was regional Mod , but same thoughts here

[Hilary Hann]

Ken, for interest sakes, what difference does it make if you resigned as moderator or not? It doesn't make any difference to the number of critiques you give or receive, surely? Just interested in what difference it makes to the activity and success of the wildlife forum.

[Arthur Morris]

Excellent points by Harshad and Hillary :)

[Ken Watkins]

Ken, for interest sakes, what difference does it make if you resigned as moderator or not? It doesn't make any difference to the number of critiques you give or receive, surely? Just interested in what difference it makes to the activity and success of the wildlife forum.

You know the more I think about it the less clear it becomes, but you are probably correct my presence as Moderator has little effect if any on the number or quality of posts, and I am certainly posting and crtiquing as much as ever, except when I am away.

[Harshad Barve]

Ken, for interest sakes, what difference does it make if you resigned as moderator or not? It doesn't make any difference to the number of critiques you give or receive, surely? Just interested in what difference it makes to the activity and success of the wildlife forum.

Can't disagree with you but IMHO Mods who have spent tons of time in Africa , Asia and other part of worlds makes huge difference when they comment as MOD.
E.g. On one bird image if I have same thought as Guruji Aka Artie Aka Maestro , everyone will give more weightage to his thoughts

[Hilary Hann]

I think, unless it was pointed out, the moderator title under the member's name has little relevance except when there is some matter of disagreement between posters, or a matter of forum rules. Some of the finest, most helpful learning critiques I have received came from members who weren't moderators.

[Hilary Hann]

Harshad, our posts crossed, but I disagree with you to a certain extent. If the information about image quality and technique is concerned, it doesn't matter much if you are a bird photographer out of USA or Australia; or a photographer of only tigers, not cheetahs … if you know good techniques, have artistic ability and knowledge of your craft then you will critique well. Where it becomes problematic is when critiques on animal behaviour and such like are called for. Then a knowledge of the area and those species is a distinct advantage. I don't think the moderator necessarily can be over all these areas, I think the general membership will be a good guide. I don't see that moderators are chosen because they are professional photographers, or highly skilled published photographers, or even highly skilled technical photographers … not all the moderators appear to fit that bill. In some cases, the general membership would appear to have people whose skills and knowledge far outweigh the moderator. Therefore, I don't see that it matters. Arthur Morris' critiques would still be helpful (or annoying … depending on how you see some comments of your own photos :D ) whether he was posting under another user name or his own.
It becomes very easy, very quickly, to determine which members have a good, clear eye and a grasp of what is right and wrong with an image. Providing clear and concise information on how to make it 'better' is not always so easy … and to be honest, not always so well received. Goes back to those egos I mentioned earlier.
This is not to denigrate any moderators, sometimes you need good people in different time zones to help out with forum matters.

[Michael Hogan]

I knbow I am a bit late in adding my piece to thius thread but I felt that I had to say something. There is one major problem with the site - it's popularity, expecially in the Avian Critique forum, and the lck of willingness of people to add their comments to images. It is something that I was very shy about. I started off in Avian Critique but it was obvious to me that I was not up to that standard. However, the comments were not harsh, even though I probably deserved them to be, and I alwaays learned from them. However, I wnt to the ETL forum and it was there that I learned a vast amount. It was also there that I realised that leaving comments was the best method of learning. You have to examine th eimage and decide why you like it or hate it or whatever. Lance it amazing supportive in ETL and never will say what you post is bad, always saying how to improve it in the nicest way. I have since rejoined Avian Critique with hopefully better images.

On the charge for membership - it is a paultry sum. If you participate in some of the forums then you will definitely get you money back in spades. Just one of Lance's tutorials is well worth the cost but we also get pearls of wisdon, great tips etc from Artie, Dennise, Daniel etc.

I may not be a great bird photographer, or even a good one but I have improved out of all recognition over the past 3 years thanks to Artie's books and all the critiques I have received.

Thanks to all for everything

Michael