Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 391

Thread: Head Angle Fine Points

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default Head Angle Fine Points

    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    I will be posting pairs of images here when available, hopefully every few days at most. Please let me know which head angle that you think is best. After a bit, I will share my opinions. We are beginning with a tough one. All of the images that I will be posting are extracted JPEGs pretty much as they came out of the camera. Because I stopped down here to save the whites I did lighten each of these images before posting.

    Important note: this is an ongoing thread. You can learn a lot by scrolling down but if you have played before and are re-visiting it would be best to go to the last page and scroll down to see the latest offerings.


    Don't be shy. Play!

    Image A.
    Last edited by Arthur Morris; 04-05-2011 at 04:42 PM.
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  2. #2
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    Image B. Warning: this pair is a very tough call :) I do have a definite opinion as to which one I prefer but there is nothing to say that my opinion will be correct. The idea here is for everyone to learn and to freely exchange their thoughts.
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  3. #3
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default Three for a Nickel

    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    Image I
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  4. #4
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    Image K

    Please let me know your thoughts on the three head angles :) Remember, these are extracted JPEGs not optimized files.
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  5. #5
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    If anyone has two unprocessed images that they would like to post here, please send them to me first via e-mail to samandmayasgrandpa@att.net as 800 wide, less than 200kb JPEGs. I will post those that I consider appropriate.
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  6. #6
    BPN Viewer
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Boca Raton, FL
    Posts
    103
    Threads
    20
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    I vote for "B." Might not meet the strict HA rules but it's a more appealing image.

  7. #7
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar Vazquez-Ortiz View Post
    I vote for "B." Might not meet the strict HA rules but it's a more appealing image.
    Hi Oscar, See Pane #18 on page 1 to see if you got it right or not. And why. There have been lots of quizzes since that one :) The red knots, Images S & T, are the latest quiz. Thanks for playing.
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  8. #8
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,173
    Threads
    219
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    I'd go with image B for the slight tilt towards us.

  9. #9
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Ah, at least we have one brave young soul. :)
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  10. #10
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    3,469
    Threads
    495
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    I choose G. The eyeball is rotated and looking at the viewer and the head seems to be turned toward the viewer. This may have caused the bill tip to be a tiny bit less sharp than the bill tip in image H but, IMO this is so slight that it doesn't overpower the viewer-to-bird eye contact.

  11. #11
    BPN Viewer
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    New Brighton, UK
    Posts
    568
    Threads
    174
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Image B for me to which seems to have better eye contact with the viewer, whereas Image A seems to be looking foward.

  12. #12
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    3,469
    Threads
    495
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    It seems too obvious to be right, but I agree that image B has better creature-to-viewer contact. I would of course keep both!

  13. #13
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    8,458
    Threads
    682
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    B for me too. Has better eye contact. "A" looks like the HA is parallel to the sensor plane.

  14. #14
    BPN Viewer
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Aquebogue, NY
    Posts
    168
    Threads
    41
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    My vote goes to image 2. The head angle give the bird a personality.

  15. #15
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Christchurch, New Zealand.
    Posts
    1,099
    Threads
    166
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Well I'll go for image "A" as although "B" is more engaging If I were taking a picture in the field for ID purposes "A" would get my vote. Bill & forehead appear a smidgin sharper as compared to "B" which appears to have been moving it's head.
    Cheers: Ian Mc

  16. #16
    Ken Watkins
    Guest

    Default

    "B" for me as well, it is more engaging.

  17. #17
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,439
    Threads
    47
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    I have to admit I am a bit conflicted on my choice. Tuff choice!

    It appears to me that Image A head angle resulted in the head/beak to be parallel to the senor. Thus the beak and head/eye are all the same focal plane resulting in the eye and beak being sharp.

    The pose/head turn in Image B appears to me to have put the end of the beak and eye in different focal planes. However, depth of field seems sufficient to maintain the sharpness. I am curious, what was your f-stop and distance to subject? The pose in Image B does provides the viewer the perception of interaction/connection with the penguin which is a plus for me.

    Based on my preference and emotions I select Image B as having the better head angle.

    An interesting exercise, I an anxious to hear your thoughts.

  18. #18
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Ertel View Post
    I have to admit I am a bit conflicted on my choice. Tuff choice! It appears to me that Image A head angle resulted in the head/beak to be parallel to the senor. Thus the beak and head/eye are all the same focal plane resulting in the eye and beak being sharp. The pose/head turn in Image B appears to me to have put the end of the beak and eye in different focal planes. However, depth of field seems sufficient to maintain the sharpness. I am curious, what was your f-stop and distance to subject? The pose in Image B does provides the viewer the perception of interaction/connection with the penguin which is a plus for me. Based on my preference and emotions I select Image B as having the better head angle. An interesting exercise, I an anxious to hear your thoughts.
    You would up with the right answer. I do believe that in many case when the bird's head is turned 2-3 degrees towards us, with the bird perfectly parallel to the back of the camera, that they eye and the bill tip will be on the same plane, thus rendering both sharper....
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  19. #19
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    1/500 sec. at f/7.1 with the Canon 70-200mm with the 1.4X II TC hand held at 280mm with the MIV. This is going great; I am thrilled that so many are playing. I will try to remember to post my thoughts tonight! Lots more to come.
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  20. #20
    BPN Member Christopher Miller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    5,677
    Threads
    586
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    I prefer "B" too. Much more engaging pose IMO.
    God Bless
    Christopher, Old Photo Master and Master Texturizer

    Old Memories Photography

  21. #21
    William Malacarne
    Guest

    Default

    I prefer B for the same reasons that others have posted.

    Bill

  22. #22
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Nashua, New Hampshire, United States
    Posts
    1,280
    Threads
    260
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    I would like Artie to say A as I took many loon shots yesterday with this head angle. However, the slightly turned towards you ha is better - B.

  23. #23
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Thanks all for participating. I deleted A after saving it for this feature. The head of bird A is pretty much parallel to the back of the camera as many of you noted and this is a fine acceptable head angle (for me) for a perfect field guide portrait with the bird's body also parallel to the back of the camera. Here is the important lesson that nobody picked up on: in both of the images, each created in the same tenth of a second, the bird's body is angled slightly towards us. In these situations, the very minimum requirement is that the bird's head be on straight, that is, parallel to its body. In A the bird's head is actually turned away from the direction that the bird itself is pointed. In B, with the head turned just a bit more towards us, the head is on straight. As many noted, it seems that the bird is more engaged with us. For me, that is caused by the way the light is hitting the bird's face. In A, the face in front of the eye is darker than in B because the head is turned away from us and from the light. Even though it was cloudy, the light still had a direction. My two cents. After commenting on a few comments I will post two more. Good luck! Just to be clear, B has the best head angle.

    Note: Thanks to Jon Saperia for correcting the typo above. Glad that someone was paying attention.
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  24. #24
    BPN Member Jon Saperia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
    Posts
    162
    Threads
    13
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Thanks all for participating. I deleted B after saving it for this feature. The head bird A is pretty much parallel to the back of the camera as many of you noted and this is a fine acceptable head angle (for me) for a perfect field guide portrait with the bird's body also parallel to the back of the camera. Here is the important lesson that nobody picked up on: in both of the images, each created in the same tenth of a second, the bird's body is angled slightly towards us. In the situations, the very minimum requirement is that the bird's head be on straight, that is, parallel to its body. In A the bird's head is actually turned away from the direction that the bird itself is pointed. In B, with the head turned just a bit more towards us, the head is on straight. As many noted, it seems that the bird is more engaged with us. For me, that is caused by the way the light is hitting the bird's face. In A, the face in front of the eye is darker than in B because the head is turned away from us and from the light. Even though it was cloudy, the light still had a direction. My two cents. After commenting on a few comments I will post two more. Good luck!
    This thread is the third in the series you suggested folks read in the series on HA you suggested in a reply to a post I made in the "eager to learn forum". Think I was getting it - but your note here confuses me a bit. You said you deleted "B", yet it seems like you too prefer it. The light on the head does seem better on B, but the HA is not parallel to the FP while it does seem better in A. Am I understanding you correctly, what have I missed?
    Jon Saperia

  25. #25
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Kes View Post
    'A' seems to have the perfect angle, just a few degrees off the parallel plane, but there is no interaction between the bird and us. This headangle misses the intimacy a good headangle should accomplish.'B' has a headangle that one could argue is a little too much (25°?), but there is definitely contact with the bird which, for me, makes the difference.
    Peter, my friend. You must either be bad in math or the Swiss use different degrees than we do :) In B I would estimate that the bird, and its head, are angled about 8 degrees towards us.
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  26. #26
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default Head Angle Fine Point #2

    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    Here is image C.
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  27. #27
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    And here is image D. Which head angle do you prefer and why?
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  28. #28
    BPN Viewer
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Boca Raton, FL
    Posts
    103
    Threads
    20
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    I think S would meet the strict requirements of the HA commando force! LOL!

  29. #29
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    3,469
    Threads
    495
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    I'm going with C as numero uno, the head is angled slightly up and toward the viewer and has more light on the face and eye. I also would keep D for two reasons, 1- the bird is intent upon his catch and therefore displaying more behavior, 2- storage is cheap these days:p

  30. #30
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,439
    Threads
    47
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    First thanks for the replies above. I also find this exercise to be educational and fun.

    In both C and D the head angle seems to be approximately the same. The bodies seems to have similar if not the identical pose also. The difference I see is the tilt of the head. In Image D the head appears to be slightly rotated toward the viewer whereas in Image C the head appears to on a 90% axis (not rotated). The result is that the head in Image C provides a slightly better view of the side of the face. Based on these perceptions I choose Image C as having the better presentation.
    Last edited by Phil Ertel; 08-08-2010 at 06:45 PM.

  31. Thanks Paul Morton thanked for this post
  32. #31
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    3,469
    Threads
    495
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    BTW, this is a very cool thread! In the time that I have been participating here on BPN (year and a half), the proper head angle capture technique has probably improved my bird photos more than any other technique learned! Thanks Artie and all!!

  33. #32
    BPN Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Northern Rockies
    Posts
    1,273
    Threads
    106
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    I prefer image C also. I like the position of the eye better than in image d because the eye in image D is pointing slightly down ward towards the sand. The eye position in image C is more intimate.
    Andrew

  34. #33
    Ken Watkins
    Guest

    Default

    C would be my choice for two reasons the eye looks better (more open?), and the position of the "mud" at the bottom of the beak looks better than its position on D

  35. #34
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,173
    Threads
    219
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Just my personal preference, but I would keep image D. The HA of image D keep the bill tip and the eye more on the same plane than image C.

  36. #35
    BPN Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Dallas, Texas.
    Posts
    6,260
    Threads
    426
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Artie, C in this case. Better view of the eye. You know I love playing in these ones.

  37. #36
    Lifetime Member Stu Bowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Centurion, South Africa
    Posts
    21,362
    Threads
    1,435
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    OK, I missed the first one, but in this I will go with C. The head is ever so slightly higher and tilted fractionally away from us. The angle also shows the eye a little more open.

  38. #37
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Bowie View Post
    OK, I missed the first one, but in this I will go with C. The head is ever so slightly higher and tilted fractionally away from us. The angle also shows the eye a little more open.
    When you say, "The head is ever so slightly higher and tilted fractionally away from us" are you referring to D?
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  39. #38
    Lifetime Member Stu Bowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Centurion, South Africa
    Posts
    21,362
    Threads
    1,435
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    When you say, "The head is ever so slightly higher and tilted fractionally away from us" are you referring to D?
    No Artie, I mean in C, that the head is tilted slightly higher and tilted away from us. My final answer is still C.;)

    In D, it seems to be lower.

  40. #39
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    It may bea matter of semantics. Do you agree with this: in C, the bill tip is closer to us than in D?
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  41. #40
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Leiden, The Netherlands
    Posts
    1,020
    Threads
    148
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Hi Artie,

    Cool game, sorry I missed the first 3 photo's! I think it is a matter of preference here. I would choose C as a more intimate/contact with the viewer shot because of the HA being slightly tilted towards the viewer compared to the body angle which points towards the viewer but also downwards. For a behavior kind of shot I would go for D. In this one the bird seems more focussed on the prey item and oblivious to the photographer (caused by the head and body angle being in the same plane and pointed towards the viewer but also down towards the prey item) which makes it more of a bahavioral kind of shot IMHO. So what I am getting at is that in my opinion it depends on what kind of a HA you want, one that is perfect technically or one that creates more of a behavioral kind of shot. Just my 2 cents.

    Thanks for starting this one up.

    Cheers,

    Krijn
    Last edited by Krijn Trimbos; 08-09-2010 at 05:02 PM.

  42. #41
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    8,458
    Threads
    682
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    D, don't like the tilt in the head in C. The bird is engaged in a behaviour so eye contact is not as important IMO.

  43. #42
    BPN Viewer Dave Leroy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Delta, BC
    Posts
    3,789
    Threads
    380
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Neat thread and sorry I missed the first set.
    I think in both the head and body angles are in alignment and slightly toward the camera.
    For me, it appears in C that the bird has rotated its head slightly to view the photographer and perhaps making it more intimate.
    In D the bird has gone back to calmly doing its thing which I prefer.

    Dave

  44. #43
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default GAME #3

    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    Here is image E.
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  45. #44
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    As noted above, each image has its strong points. For head angle, C wins by a mile as the head is rotated towards us. With me standing behind the 800 the head of the bird in C is parallel to the back of the camera; in D, it is turned slightly away from the plane of the sensor. Had I been lying down on the beach, D would have had the best head angle as the head would have been parallel to the back of the camera. Yes, with the bill tip closer to the plane of the eye in D, the bill tip is sharper in D. But here, this was the question: "Which head angle do you prefer and why?" :)

    Note: the bird in C was in no way looking at me; birds are constantly changing head positions and angles even when they are resting. Also, this has nothing to do with eye contact but everything to do with the way the light hits the bird's face.

    Thanks all for playing. I will try to post another pair when I get back from my walk.
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  46. #45
    BPN Member Andre van As's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    West Chester, PA, (summer), Florida (winter)
    Posts
    104
    Threads
    10
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    As noted above, each image has its strong points. For head angle, C wins by a mile as the head is rotated towards us. With me standing behind the 800 the head of the bird in C is parallel to the back of the camera; in D, it is turned slightly away from the plane of the sensor. Had I been lying down on the beach, D would have had the best head angle as the head would have been parallel to the back of the camera. Yes, with the bill tip closer to the plane of the eye in D, the bill tip is sharper in D. But here, this was the question: "Which head angle do you prefer and why?" :)

    Note: the bird in C was in no way looking at me; birds are constantly changing head positions and angles even when they are resting. Also, this has nothing to do with eye contact but everything to do with the way the light hits the bird's face.

    Thanks all for playing. I will try to post another pair when I get back from my walk.
    I came in late but liked C before I read the opinions because the whole posture flows much better as the right leg is forward, the body is leaning forward a bit and the angle between the neck and the back is not as acute which connects the head with the body in a more pleasing way. These factors give a more cohesive picture of the bird's attention/energy being directed towards the object it is interested in

  47. #46
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andre van As View Post
    I came in late but liked C before I read the opinions because the whole posture flows much better as the right leg is forward, the body is leaning forward a bit and the angle between the neck and the back is not as acute which connects the head with the body in a more pleasing way. These factors give a more cohesive picture of the bird's attention/energy being directed towards the object it is interested in
    Welcome Andre, You raise many good points. My opinion on those two images is in Pane 37. As there have been 361 or so comments, that pair is old news.

    Did you miss this in Pane #1:

    Important note: this is an ongoing thread. You can learn a lot by scrolling down but if you have played before and are re-visiting it would be best to go to the last page and scroll down to see the latest offerings.
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  48. #47
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Yes. A perfect head angle often results in what many folks would consider good "eye contact." I just don't think of it that way. And I am not sure that I would agree that all types of folks will like an image better if they feel that the wildlife subject is looking at them.

    Many folks have remarked after studying a collection of my work that I seem to have some "connection" with my subjects. That I consider a supreme compliment. The funny thing is that while they all use the word "connection" none have every mentioned "eye contact."
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  49. #48
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indian Lake Estates, FL
    Posts
    32,557
    Threads
    1,438
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    Here is image F.

    Which head angle do you prefer, and why?
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  50. #49
    BPN Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    224
    Threads
    39
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    In E, the bird seems to be looking off into the distance, with the head angled slightly away. In F, my preferred choice, the head is angled toward me/sensor plane, and seems more engaged with us.

  51. #50
    BPN Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Northern Rockies
    Posts
    1,273
    Threads
    106
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    I prefer image E because the HA is parallel or nearly parallel to the sensor plane. Although both images are keepers IMHO, image E is better because of the HA.

Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Web Analytics