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Thread: Head Angle Fine Points

  1. #101
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    I agree with Jon. P, N, O from worst to best. Simply stated, I think O has the best HA.
    Last edited by Andrew Merwin; 09-02-2010 at 05:16 PM.

  2. #102
    BPN Member Myer Bornstein's Avatar
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    i like P the best the followed by O and lastly N . P makes the bird more attentive. BTW I would clone out the dark area on the right side :D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myer Bornstein View Post
    BTW I would clone out the dark area on the right side :D
    Thanks for playing. Remember, these are only extracted JPEGs, i.e., the images have not been optimized :)
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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  4. #104
    Wildlife Moderator Rachel Hollander's Avatar
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    I'm going with O as the best and then P and then N. I think N is slightly away from us and P is turned a bit too far towards us.

    Rachel

  5. #105
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    Artie, O is definitely the gold medal winner for me. For silver, I will give P a slight edge over N. With bird looking straight out of the frame, my eye also wanders out. P is a little extreme, yes, but I still like it more than N.

  6. #106
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    Worst to best: N, P, O. Although N and O look similar at first glance, as I looked more the tradeoffs among the 3 determined my choice and put P in the middle. N is the worst because the bird is looking slightly away, the catchlight is behind the pupil, the bill seems a tad foreshortened (farshortened?). P has the catchlight nicely at the front of the eye, but the bill is definitely foreshortened and the right angle juncture of the lower bill and neck is unappealing. O strikes the best balance, the catchlight is just in front of the pupil, the bill is nicely proportioned, the curve where the neck meets the lower bill is pleasing.

  7. #107
    BPN Member John Hawkins's Avatar
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    I think P,O,N. I like p. I am partial to the look right at the camera. Has a more inquisitive look.
    John P. Hawkins
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  8. #108
    Forum Participant Dave Leroy's Avatar
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    With the best first, I say O, P, N.
    It looks like the body may be turned very slightly away from the camera and head is square to body in N therefore a bit away from camera.
    P gives a more full view of head and better viewer contact, and O looks about perfect to me.

    Dave

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    From best to last ... for me ... O, N, P. O is the most personal and inviting, feels very intimate, great HA.

    I had a bit of a time deciding between N & P for next place, & finally decided that in P the HA was too much, and tended to foreshorten the lovely beak. N is a nice-enough portrait, although lacking the emotional engagement. It seem that the body is turned slightly away, and the HA is either in line with the body, or perhaps a degree or so turned away ... gives a nice view of the face (great for an id shot).

  10. #110
    BPN Member Jon Saperia's Avatar
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    If this were by vote, then the order I suggested might come in second as only a couple of us went with P as the worst followed by N. I think most of us said that O was the best. Artie, if I have N and P reversed, that is a preference for N by a bit over P, can you say why this is wrong please? Thanks.
    Jon
    Jon Saperia

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    My two cents :) N is a clear delete. The bird's head is turned slightly but definitely away from the plane of the imaging sensor. If you picked this as your favorite or even as your second favorite, you need to go back and study the basics in the various ER threads. That leaves us with O and P. Both are keepers with O my favorite by a fair margin as P is borderline too much head turn towards us. Do note that the semi-plover's body is angled ever-so-slightly away from us.
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Saperia View Post
    If this were by vote, then the order I suggested might come in second as only a couple of us went with P as the worst followed by N. I think most of us said that O was the best. Artie, if I have N and P reversed, that is a preference for N by a bit over P, can you say why this is wrong please? Thanks.
    Jon
    Jon, In N, the bird's head is angled slightly away from us (as is the body). With the body angled ever-so-slightly away from us a square head angle is the very minimum required..... While N looks OK after a quick look careful study reveals that the head is indeed angled away from us.
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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  13. #113
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    Default Back From the Bear Boat: New Game!

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails _W3C7585--Geographic-Harbor,-Katmai-National-Park,-AK.jpg  

    Almost forgot, thanks all for playing and congrats to those who nailed it.

    Here is image Q.
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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  14. #114
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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails _W3C7584--Geographic-Harbor,-Katmai-National-Park,-AK.jpg  

    And here is Image R. My only concern is with the amount of head rotation of the adult bear: which is the better image, Q or R? And why?
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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  15. #115
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    Having agreed, mostly ;), with the previous ones I thought I'd join in. I like Q better than R due to the fact the adults head is angled slightly down and towards the camera. This allows the bears left ear to be just visible over the head, which I think makes for a more pleasing shot. Also like the dribble from the salmon in Q.
    Cheers,
    Brent

  16. #116
    BPN Member Kaustubh Deshpande's Avatar
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    I like Q more Artie. It looks more relaxed....enjoying a nice meal kinda relaxed. In R, for some reason, it doesn't appear that way. But I think the face is lit slightly better in R. BTW, why vertical?

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    Note to K and Brent: look carefully at the light on the eye in each image....
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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  18. #118
    BPN Member Myer Bornstein's Avatar
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    I like R better lighting is better and the eyes are brighter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaustubh Deshpande View Post
    BTW, why vertical?
    K (sorry, I forgot what your friends call you :confused:) A horizontal would have worked here to but I prefer the front-end vertical in this and similar situations for the following reason: if I am working in horizontal format and the adult raises it's head I am out of business.... Front-end vertical COMPs are discussed in detail in the chapter on advanced composition and image design in ABP II (916 pages on CD only).
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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  20. #120
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    Thx Artie. I understand why you went with vertical. yes, I agree that eye is better lit in R.

    KD

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    All good. Here is the lesson: head angle is almost always about the way the light strikes the face (and the eye...)

    Remind me of what your friend's call you....
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    All good. Here is the lesson: head angle is almost always about the way the light strikes the face (and the eye...)

    Remind me of what your friend's call you....
    KD. easy.

  23. #123
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    KD, Thanks. So easy that I forgot. But I will not do that again.
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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  24. #124
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    R certainly does have a slightly more well lit eye, or perhaps it is just you can see more of the eye due to the angle of the head? The eye and nose would be on the same plane as the camera. I do however, like the profile of Q. The eye still shows a good catchlight, but perhaps with more shadow around the 'eyebrow', and I do like that tilt slightly towards the camera (and down at the cub). Both shots are of course stunning and I'd keep them both!

  25. #125
    BPN Member Jon Saperia's Avatar
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    As I go through these examples and get some right, and some wrong, I look at what I have done and find some things that are clearly pretty good (or at least I think so) and some things that are not very good. The question is where is the best place to post these questions which are about head angle or other compositional elements you mention in this forum? Should I post examples here or would it be better to do all posting of this kind in the 'eager to learn' forum?
    Thanks
    /jon
    Jon Saperia

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    ETL would be perfect. Be sure to send me a link and I will tend to it if I am home :) Or Avian. Or as here, Wildlife. No head angles for plants...
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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  27. #127
    BPN Member Jon Saperia's Avatar
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    Thanks. I will post some when i get back from my road trip to the ETL.
    /jon
    Jon Saperia

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    How does one take a road trip to ETL??? :confused: :)
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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  29. #129
    BPN Member Jon Saperia's Avatar
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    See, I have not been able to do any photography for a while and it is messing with my head :-)
    Jon Saperia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Saperia View Post
    See, I have not been able to do any photography for a while and it is messing with my head :-)
    I can dig it!
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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  31. #131
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    I will admit that when you look at Q and R individually that it is a difficult call. But when you look at an animated GIF or when you see the images appear one and then the next in your browser, this one is child's play: in Image R, the bear's head is rotated a bit towards us and that lights the eye up beautifully. And for me everything else is about equal.
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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  32. #132
    BPN Member Tom Graham's Avatar
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    On your #131 reply GIF do you have Q and R reversed?
    For me Q is the image that tilts toward me. And Q shows tip of left ear that makes the head 3 dimensional. Although R shows perhaps better right eye lighting, but really really hard to see.
    Regards - Tom

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    Hi Tom, There is no "reversed" in the GIF. It runs forever and the images are not labeled. As for Q and R, I have deleted Q and added R to the collection, but thanks for sharing your thoughts. For me, the differences are huge and the tiny bit of ear showing in Q did not impress me :) We will need to agree to disagree on this one.
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    Furhtermore, in R, the entire snout is well lit. In Q, with the head rotated away from us, the entire snout is dark. And in R, the teeth are showing a bit and the bear looks to be smiling. Not so in Q.
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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails _W3C0943--Nickerson-Beach,-Lido-Beach,-Long-Island,-NY.jpg  

    Image S.
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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails _W3C0944--Nickerson-Beach,-Lido-Beach,-Long-Island,-NY.jpg  

    Image T. Which head angle do you prefer and why? Again I believe that there is a clear choice here :)
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  37. #137
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    I prefer image T because the HA is shallower by a degree or 2. The HA in S seems 2-3 degrees off to my eye.
    Andrew

  38. #138
    BPN Member Myer Bornstein's Avatar
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    Image S, You sense the bird is communicating with you

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    Well, somebody got it right at least as I see it:)
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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  40. #140
    BPN Member John Hawkins's Avatar
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    I say S. I like the head angle and the eye contact.
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  41. #141
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    I vote for "B." Might not meet the strict HA rules but it's a more appealing image.

  42. #142
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    I think S would meet the strict requirements of the HA commando force! LOL!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar Vazquez-Ortiz View Post
    I vote for "B." Might not meet the strict HA rules but it's a more appealing image.
    Hi Oscar, See Pane #18 on page 1 to see if you got it right or not. And why. There have been lots of quizzes since that one :) The red knots, Images S & T, are the latest quiz. Thanks for playing.
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  44. #144
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    Would have to say image S is the better of the two. The bird is alert and meeting the viewers eye.

  45. #145
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    I think the HA on S is better than T, although what I am most drawn to is the difference in the eye from S to T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel Hollander View Post
    I think the HA on S is better than T, although what I am most drawn to is the difference in the eye from S to T.
    What difference are you seeing in the eye.
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  47. #147
    Wildlife Moderator Rachel Hollander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    What difference are you seeing in the eye.
    Artie - in S the eye is round and appears more alert (for lack of a better word) and in T it is less than round, slightly oblong.

    Rachel

  48. #148
    BPN Member Juan Carlos Vindas's Avatar
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    In pane #21, C for me, there is more ''life'' on the eye. pane #22, the bird is more focused on whatever it has on its bill, that's important to me as well, but pretending I haven't seen image D, I will say C is my favorite.

  49. #149
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Hey JC, The answer to the second quiz is in Pane #37 on page 1. See how you did! The most recent quiz started in Panes 135 and 136 above.
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions.
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  50. #150
    BPN Member Ben_Sadd's Avatar
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    For me S is the winner here. In T I have the feeling the HA is a touch away from you and because of this the eye region is not so well lit.

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