Macro flashes Advice

[Don Hamilton Jr.]

Good Morning: Looking to hear some input from the macro folks.Would like to do some macro, and not break the bank though. Have zero "time" in the macro category, however it's of interest.
Currently own canon 7d . ext tubes, and cannon macro 100mm F 2.8 IS II lens, however i'm stuck on the flash :confused:
Ring flash or the twin strobes?? Seems the twinn, offers more features down the road, just curious what the real benefits of each are.
Would like to capture lizards, frogs, and the slightly bigger stuff. kind of wish i'd bought the 180mm. So any advice is welcome here.
It's not a consuming passion, but is fun, and certainly would like to do some macro captures.
Cheers:
Don

[Alfred Forns]

Hi Don Would go for the twin. The ring flash gives a flat light all over the subject, good for product photography. Before you get into the strobes would try out a diffuser, will give the best light. Flash tends to cause lots of little specular highlights which are annoying, need to diffuse or turn way down !!

btw can really go wild with the flash ..after getting the twin strobes then comes the flash bracket from RRS :) Can get little adjustable booms to extend mounted around and adjustable ring !!! Good site to check out for info !!!

[Don Hamilton Jr.]

Thks Al, so if investing in a macro flash the twin is the endorsement, correct??
Your Quote "Before you get into the strobes would try out a diffuser, will give the best light"
Are you saying to try my 580 ex ii with a diffuser instead, not sure if follow ya here, or are you suggsting diffusers on the twinn strobes?? If so what diffusers are you refering too. :confused:
Thks again for the great support!
Don

[Roman Kurywczak]

Hey Don,
Agree with Al that a 5 in one collapsable reflector diffuser (around $35) is a good start.....even use it with the twin lights......which I prefer over the ring light for the reasons mentioned. Carefully balancing the light is the key to succesful images and the lights took my macro work to a whole other level......so I highly recommend them! 95% of my macros are done using them.
Hope this helps and I will be using them on my workshop with Al and Fabs when I am down in your neck of the woods!

[Don Hamilton Jr.]

Wow, great stuff guys,, sounds like a good plan!
Don

[Charles Glatzer]

[QUOTE=Don Hamilton Jr.;548104
Currently own canon 7d . ext tubes, and cannon macro 100mm F 2.8 IS II lens, however i'm stuck on the flash :confused:
Would like to capture lizards, frogs, and the slightly bigger stuff. kind of wish i'd bought the 180mm.
Cheers:
Don[/QUOTE]


Don,

The size of the subjects you intend to shoot will dictate the best strobe configuration. IMO, the twin-lights alone are good for macro, but not so much for close-up photography such as lizard, frog, and bigger stuff unless used with extension arms like the RRS equipment suggested. Getting the strobes further off-camera and to the sides of the subject affords greater control of lighting ratios and subject detail rendered. The further the working distance you are from the subject the longer the strobes arms necessary.

Addendum...agree with Greg below, using the larger more powerful strobes when shooting subjects at greater distance. I highly suggest looking at the RRS (www.reallyrightstuff.com) brackets if you are serious in your endeavor.
And, I do recommend the 180mm for greater working distance and strobe manipulation. FYI- the 300 f/4 with extension tubes and stobe is a killer hand-held combo for butterflies, dragonflies, etc.

Best,

Chas

[Greg Basco]

Don, I second Chas' suggestions here. The twin flash is great for small subjects but even then I take the heads off the ring and hold them where I want them. I would add that for larger macro subjects (e.g., lizards, many frogs) larger flashes (that is, larger light sources) will be better. I use the twin flash for little stuff and then Canon 430 EX flashes for bigger macro stuff. I use diffusers almost 100% of the time on both the twin flash heads and the larger flashes. In any case, the key as Chas says is getting the light off axis, both for the flash to look natural and/or to get creative.

Cheers,
Greg Basco

[Don Hamilton Jr.]

Thks Chas,& Greg; Al mentioned these goodies as well.... looks like an entire new discipline, macro that is!
Greg, so i assume a tripod is envolved here, and then you are hand holding, or using these special rrs arms to position and hold these mini-strobs off of the camera front ring.(unsnapped from there holders)
Don

[William Malacarne]

Then a long with a good tripod you will want to get a macro adjusting rail such as....:)

http://reallyrightstuff.com/rrs/items.asp?Cc=MACRO&Bc=

Bill

PS When I first tried to use my ball head, the Arca-Swiss Monoball B1, it was a problem just as Al stated.

Sorry wrong post...can someone delete this.

[Roman Kurywczak]

Not disagreeing with the above suggestions..all valid....but 98% of my images i have shot HH with the twin lights....from flies to to frogs to DF to large flowers...waterlilies....IMO very versatile and cost to amount of subjects I have done with it.....actually cheap. Focusing rails...arms.....second flash$$$....as your budget goes up you can move up to this.....never mind the flexibility that HH with the 180 and the twin lights is huge when in the field.

[Greg Basco]

Hi, Don. Well, I use a mix of techniques. I'll use a tripod when I'm doing mostly ambient light exposures or at times when using flash as fill mixed with ambient. That said, here in Costa Rica at least much macro is handheld and you're using the flash either as fill or the main or only light source. When working a close subject, I will often hold one of the twin flash heads in my left hand for backlight or sidelighting and use the one still on the mount as fill. If I have someone who will hold another flash, I will mix in a 430 EX as slave C controlled by the twin flash.

This works really well with the 100 mm macro you have as I think it's the perfect length for handheld macro flash work and particularly with a 7D with the 1.6x crop/mag. factor. If doing handheld macro with flash as main light I find the extra working distance of the 180 mm to be a disadvantage because you are so far from the subject that the twin flash becomes a point source, no matter what kind of bracket or arms you use. The images will tend to look flashed. By the way, I find this to be the case even if I'm shooting handheld macro with wide open apertures and want to mix in flash as fill or accent; having the twin flash heads off-axis and as a relatively larger light source still makes a difference. That's been my experience with rainforest photography in any case.

When doing a larger macro subject I'll use one to three 430 EX off-camera. If using one, I'll try to hold it myself. If using more than one I will ask for some help or set up a small tripod or two as light stands (if the subject will give me that much time of course!).

Relating all of this to your equipment choice, I think the bottom line is that you've received good advice here. Adding the macro twin flash plus the RRS or a homemade bracket to get the flash head(s) off-axis will get you started in macro with the equipment you have. I was sent info on the following bracket and might try to do a homemade version soon. This would support the twin flash heads of course but not the 430 EX. http://www.xotopro.com/QMM1Mount.html. Macro is all about experimenting with what works for you and the kinds of things you like to shoot but I think the equipment recommended here will give you a good base.

I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Greg

PS -- My wife made me a homemade version of the Strobosocks with some white fabric and elastic; these diffusers live on my twin flash heads.

[Charles Glatzer]

Hand held is often the best method, and only real option with fast moving and flighty subjects.

The twin lights can certainly be used attached to the lens with larger subjects, but the further away the lens/strobe combo is from the subject the more frontal and singular the lighting becomes. A single diffused (soft-box) strobe can produce outstanding images, however, with a single strobe off axis subject modeling (light ratio) is often restricted by ambient light and corresponding shutter-speed. Dual strobes allow you to ratio the subject lighting independent of shutter-speed, but should you desire the background brightness could be adjusted via shutter-speed, independent of the subject lighting. Big difference…two strobes open up a whole new world of lighting and creativity. It all comes down to ratios…main vs. fill and background.

Warm Regards to all,

Chas

[Rene A]

If you want to play before you get more serious maybe you should look at this:


http://www.amazon.com/Macro-Flash-LE.../dp/B0031AQ302

I have seen people use it NOT bad at all

[William Malacarne]

Rene

Have you tried one of them?

Bill

[Christopher C.M. Cooke]

Welcome to the world of PP.

No not Post Processing but Perpetual Poverty. :)

Remember your 7D can be used to activate other strobes, I use my MR-14 Ringlite with unbalanced tubes plus two 580 EXIIs on tripods with diffusers to which I add 1,5mg Valium tablet for intellectual stability. :)

PS the 300 f/4 L IS with tubes is one of the best Macro lenses you can have, as previously stated.

[Roman Kurywczak]

Welcome to the world of PP.

No not Post Processing but Perpetual Poverty. :)

Remember your 7D can be used to activate other strobes, I use my MR-14 Ringlite with unbalanced tubes plus two 580 EXIIs on tripods with diffusers to which I add 1,5mg Valium tablet for intellectual stability. :)


PS the 300 f/4 L IS with tubes is one of the best Macro lenses you can have, as previously stated.

heh, heh, heh ,heh.....now that's funny

[Jackie Schuknecht]

Funny Christopher.... I have the twin light by Canon and like it. The ring lite is supposed to produce flat looking light. If you have the 7D you can set up a master/slave and bounce the 580 EX off of a reflector (silver seems to give the best tone IMO).

[Christopher C.M. Cooke]

Thanks Jackie! I will give it a try,

I have never seen a worse manual for anything than the one that came with the $850 MR-14, it is almost unreadable and is one of the only items that Canon do not have an Online Manual for.

Great portrait light but it is a bit flat. :)

[Don Hamilton Jr.]

Thks everyone, Twinn it is! Thks for everyones response, and great sharing of intel!
Much appreciated!:D
Don