June Discussion

Julie Kenward · 06-11-2010, 07:38 AM

We haven't had a good discussion here in Macro/Flora for awhile so let's do that!

I would love to know why you submit images to BPN - what are you most hoping to get out of it and how do you feel about photography as a whole? Are you trying to improve your skills so you can sell a few prints? Do you want to one day go pro? Are you just tooling around with your favorite hobby? Or did someone leave you a bunch of camera equipment and you thought "What the heck?"

Also, what you do find your biggest challenges to be here in the macro/flora world? Is it lighting? Exposure? Comp? Depth of field? Are you technically proficient and lack the artistic side or vice versa?

And for all you lurkers out there...I'd love to hear from you, too. Why haven't you posted yet? Are you learning from just observing? Do you think one day you will post or is something holding you back? How can we help?

Okay...there you go...have at it!

**Ken Childs** · 06-11-2010, 09:55 AM

I started posting here because I seemed to have reached a point in my hobby where I could shoot and edit nice "field guide" style photos but knew there was much more to be had.

Now that I have a feel for what I should be looking for before taking a shot, one problem I face is getting a good BG in a natural setting. Also, getting all of subject in focus can be tough because using a smaller aperture to get better DOF = a much slower shutter speed and most of the time using a tripod just isn't an option when shooting the kind of things I like to shoot. That means most of my field shots are HH and I really don't have very steady hands so there are times when it can be difficult for me to get sharp looking shots. Using flash or a higher ISO can help but then I have the problems of flash highlights or excessive noise.

The negative part of BPN is that now I know a little more about what makes a good shot and what good editing is so I have a hard time going back to those site/groups I used to frequent and honestly give one of those "great shot" type of comments. :D

**Desmond Chan** · 06-11-2010, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Julie Kenward

I would love to know why you submit images to BPN - what are you most hoping to get out of it

Improvement.

and how do you feel about photography as a whole?

It's an expensive hobby :)

Are you trying to improve your skills so you can sell a few prints?

Don't think anybody would buy any of mine but, just in case, how do I sell my prints? :)

Do you want to one day go pro?

See above.

Are you just tooling around with your favorite hobby?

Guess so.

Or did someone leave you a bunch of camera equipment and you thought "What the heck?"

I bought mine.

Also, what you do find your biggest challenges to be here in the macro/flora world? Is it lighting? Exposure? Comp? Depth of field?

And finding the subjects.

Are you technically proficient and lack the artistic side or vice versa?

No, yes, and maybe.

And for all you lurkers out there...I'd love to hear from you, too. Why haven't you posted yet? Are you learning from just observing? Do you think one day you will post or is something holding you back? How can we help?

I think, after a while, you know what kind of comments you'd be getting and so, what's the purpose of posting if you pretty much know what other folks would say to your photograph?

**OvidiuCavasdan** · 06-11-2010, 03:01 PM

Why submiting images? To share, to be part of this and to learn. It is interesting to read what others, experienced or not, have to say about an image, how they see an image and then thinking about what I have seen through the viewfinder, what I was trying to achieve and what should have done for a better image.
For me photography is a hobby, a way to get out of the crazy world around. I'm trying to improve my skills. Selling prints? Going pro? I'll never reach that high! Do I want this? I really dont know. Maybe I should try to sell some images to my wife!:D
I've started almost 3 years ago with Canon S5, after a while wanted more, sold my 1988 Kawa Eliminator - old cow:D and bought equipment. The 'virus" got me.
As a begginer, everything is a challenge to me:o, finding a subject, comp, settings, light, dof, BG....:)
Have learned some about techs, still need a huge amount of learning. BPN helped me a lot! Thanks!:)
I think that on the artistic side I'm low and this is something very difficult to improve if you dont have it.

Julie Kenward · 06-11-2010, 04:52 PM

Ken, I know what you mean. I really never take a tripod in the field with me unless I am shooting at night and know I'll need a very long exposure. Like you, I prefer to shoot outside in nature and take what I can get - it means many more throw aways but when I get a good one in beautiful light I really feel such a sense of elation - I never get that same feeling from shooting indoors in a studio-type setup. My hands also shake but I guess I've learned how to move, to control my breathing, and how to make the "shake" work for me - well, at least part of the time!

Desmond, I have to agree - it is a VERY expensive hobby! Every time I dream about a new lens I could just shoot myself in the foot for loving it so much!

Oividiu, we sound very familiar. I started with the S3 and knew I had to sell whatever I had to sell to get a DSLR. Those Powershot cameras are a ploy by Canon to get us hooked, don't you think? :D I also photograph to get my head out of the everyday world. It grounds me, has deepened my faith in ways I never imagined, and provides me with some pretty awesome dreams after a really good day out in nature.

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies...now who's next? ;)

**Paul Lagasi** · 06-11-2010, 09:19 PM

Attached Images

**Dave Leroy** · 06-12-2010, 01:47 AM

When I retired a few years ago, I decided I would like to use the other half of my brain, the creative half.
As I had fooled around a bit years earlier with photography I thought this would be a good way to it.
Boy was I surprised. There was and continues to be a ton of "technical" stuff to understand before I can even come close to trying for anything artistic.
I had wandered around on the web looking for photography sites and ended up here at BPN. It is loaded with lots of very talented photographers who give so much of their time to help others become better photogs. It is great.
I am just starting to experience macro and find that like avian ss and dof seem to be in short supply. Now as I am gaining more technical knowledge it is really the artistic part of photography that is challenging.

I have no desire to sell anything nor to be recognized as a photographer of note. I just really like the special challenge it offers. I want to continue to improve to the point where I can reasonably represent what I see and feel, and the amount of time I get to wander around outdoors watching and observing nature is a great big bonus.

**Dave Woeller** · 06-12-2010, 07:03 AM

I also participate here to share and learn, and am beginning to see it taking affect on this old mind. I have always come up a bit short in the confidence to critique others work, and lately I have looked at the shots posted, and formulated my thoughts before reading any other responses. Lately, and to my surprise, my thoughts seem to match the others quite closely. Something must be sinking in, and I am beginning to offer up more of my thoughts. Like Dave above, I had been to several other sharing sites before landing here. I am finally getting what I needed in the first place. As to why I shoot these shots, I have always tried to express myself artistically, be it music, photography, etc. As a photographer for the New Jersey Motorsports Park, I can say there is a huge difference in a field of daisies compared to a pack of Ferraris, or motorcycles hurtling past you at 140 MPH. I enjoy the peaceful quiet settings this side of the art takes me to. I have been fortunate to have work in, and sold from local galleries, which is another confidence booster. I can guarentee that this success is due in large part to skills I have developed from my participation here. I've rambled on too long and haven't answered all the questions, but the point is I have, and will continue, to learn a ton here.

Julie Kenward · 06-12-2010, 02:27 PM

Paul, what a wonderful goal you've set for yourself! I think it's great that you are so intent on seeing and experiencing each of the avian creatures in your book. I wouldn't recommend doing this with any of the flower books, though...it would surely drive you to insanity!

Dave, it's neat to know that you are finding yourself growing as a photographer here at BPN. I think everyone has to learn technical things in order to properly USE the camera but the artistic stuff comes naturally for some and must be learned for others. The great thing about photography is there are so many different forms one can take - learning to compose a macro/floral photograph can be intensely different than lining up a row of buildings or capturing the sea rolling into shore. One almost always finds areas they are naturally better at and the rest you need to absorb through repetition and then applying what you've seen before. Like you, I've seen my photography change drastically in the past 3 years and BPN is the reason why.

Dave, I think it's great that you've sold to galleries - good for you for going out and pursuing that! I understand your uneasiness to give a critique - I think it holds a lot of people back - but we really are here as observers first and photographers second. Even someone with very little technical knowledge can comment on why they like (or don't like) what they see - what would make them buy (or not buy) a piece of art. I encourage all of us who see the photos here to give their view; it only helps the artist realize more and more why people like (or don't like) what they see.

Okay, who's next??? ;)

**Adrian David** · 06-13-2010, 03:16 AM

Mainly, to share and learn...BPN is the best place for this.I've learn a lot here! It is a very expensive hobby and I've made many sacrifices to afford my equipment...But, I think it's worth it...The fact that this hobby takes you out in the nature and make you see things that you have never thought of, is very rewarding by itself. When you get a good shot, you really feel fortunate.Posting a photo on BPN, realy helps to improve my technical skills and even the artistic ones!
Selling prints or going pro? I don't think I'll ever get to this level...
My biggest challenge in the macro/flora world...? I think it is that I want to capture as good as possible, the little wonders of this world, that we ignore most of the time and that are passing by, mostly unobserved...There are so many plants, categorized as weeds, with such beautiful and interesting flowers, that you'll never notice until you get up, close and personal....I'm still struggling with the technical skills, but I want to improve my artistic ones too...:)

**Allen Sparks** · 06-13-2010, 04:58 AM

Photography is purely a hobby for me albeit a passionate one. I am not gifted with a strong artistic point of view so am always interested in comments and posts along those lines. I mainly go for pure realism in my shots hoping the critters themselves provide enough points of interest. Shots showing behavioral elements are an emphasis for me when I can get them. I am a wildlife lover including bugs and enjoy showing the unusual and striking species that are out in nature.

I am an active member in my local photography club and participate in most of the monthly competitions we have so I am also looking for critiques to improve my competitive entries. This site has been a big help for that. I also do a fair amount of exhibiting through the club so also look for ways to improve on providing interest in my exhibit images.

A big challenge for me in macro photography is getting the DOF I need while also blurring the background. For example, I like sharp wing tips on my dragonflies and butterflies which usually means using a very narrow aperture which also means I am constantly on the hunt for subjects that are on relatively high perches providing a better chance for an uncluttered background.

Roman Kurywczak · 06-14-2010, 03:28 PM

After a short stint in Art school....I started my tour company in 2003, so sharing and teaching has been a big goal of mine since then. I joined BPN in Feb. of 2008 to be part of the larger community and to also be inspired. I agreed to become a landscape moderator in March (i think) largely because I felt that sharing my knowlege was a good way of me giving back to the photographic community......as others had given to me. It has been a fun, although sometimes bumpy road. I still find that BPN gives me plenty of inspiration for my own photography. What really gets me excited is when I give advice.....and someone not only follows it but gets great results for themselves....and they have the aahaaa moment.....that is just a huge rush!

I do sell photos but it is not a big part of my goals. I do enjoy running the tours as well as the workshops because this gives me a better opportunity to teach a bit more in depth but BPN allows me to reach more people who may not be able to afford or have the time for my workshops! Macro has always been a passion of mine and the ability to control and manipulate the light as well as the other technical challenges drive me to explore the boundaries of photography which spills over into the other areas I also like to shoot! I no longer say can't, I wonder how! How do I overcome these challenges?!!! This has allowed me to channel some of my art school BG and put them to use in the photographic field.

My goals are to inspire and teach here on BPN......if I achieve those 2 goals then I will consider my tenure here a success.

**Cheryl Flory** · 06-15-2010, 06:18 AM

I would love to know why you submit images to BPN -

Wow, what a lot of big questions in one thread!
I submit to BPN because I am just starting photography and need to learn. This is the best place/way I have found to learn photography, both in general and specifically to my needs.

what are you most hoping to get out of it
I am hoping, and receiving, great instruction and information.

and how do you feel about photography as a whole?
Photography has been a life-line to me the past 3 years. I don’t know what I would have done without it, and hope I never have to give it up. And now that I find I am suppose to stay away from a lot of walking for the next 3 months, what a great time to have found macro!! :D

Are you trying to improve your skills so you can sell a few prints? Do you want to one day go pro? Are you just tooling around with your favorite hobby?
While I am realistic enough not to expect to sell images, I would consider photography more to me than “just” a hobby. :) Oh yea, a LOT more.

Or did someone leave you a bunch of camera equipment and you thought "What the heck?"
I helped my daughter get started in photography, initially for 4-H. Once she left home I decided to give photography a try for myself. Since she has Canon, that is why I went with Canon, hoping to be able to share equipment. But since that won’t work as she has moved too far away in search of work, I am now purchasing one piece of equipment at a time.

Also, what you do find your biggest challenges to be here in the macro/flora world? Is it lighting? Exposure? Comp? Depth of field? Everything! Right now, especially how to shoot macro in a place where the wind seems to never be still! How do you shoot then?

Are you technically proficient and lack the artistic side or vice versa? While I lack both, for me I think it will be more difficult to learn the artistic side/”seeing” the image than it will be to learn the technical side. Lack of artistic/creativity is my biggest hold back right now.

And for all you lurkers out there...I'd love to hear from you, too. Why haven't you posted yet?
Lack of images worth posting. I know the images do not need to be perfect. But they do need something of value in them. Lol Plus, lack of new type of images. Right now I just can’t seem to find anything new to shoot or be able to think of a new way to shoot what I already have photographed.

How can we help? The more detailed comments, the better! I think people who post here are doing so in order to learn. And the information critiques are the best!

One question not asked, is what has been most helpful.... To me, that has been the encouragement from this list. I have been so amazed by how encouraged I have been through both the on-line comments (even when an image is a poor one!) and even when the members and moderators have taken the time to send off-line comments. I find that dedication and interest amazing!

Julie Kenward · 06-17-2010, 12:57 PM

Adrian, great to hear from you! I know what you mean about making sacrifices...my camera bag gets heavier and heavier and my closets get lighter and lighter... ;)

Allen, DOF IS the biggest challenge technically when it comes to macro images - there's no doubt about it. Each lens you use, each time you go out - there's always something new and different to contend with each and every time. It's so rewarding when you get it right, though!

My goals are to inspire and teach here on BPN......if I achieve those 2 goals then I will consider my tenure here a success.

Roman, I think you made it. :D;):D

Cheryl, I love that last question. I, too, am so encouraged by everyone on this forum and, like Roman, I love to see people "get" something new.

It's been surprising to see how many of you don't think you have an "artistic eye". I'm almost always amazed at the images you all come up with. I'll keep that thought in mind and we'll see if we can't come up with something to help us all grow a little stronger in that area.

Anyone else want to chime in? :) It's never too late!

**Jackie Schuknecht** · 06-18-2010, 09:41 PM

I submit to learn. Initially got into photography after seeing someone's exhibition, and loved what I saw. So always having a love of nature it seemed like a good fit to get into photography. There are some real wizards here, and not too many huge egos, and people seem more than happy to be of help, and offer positive criticism. On the whole a find BPN a safe, kind environment in which to learn.
Hope at some point to sell, but it doesn't really matter to me. I just love to get out, and I find macro is a great place to learn a whole lot more about the world around us, although I enjoy all the categories we have here at BPN. (mostly viewing at this point)

**Anita Bower** · 06-20-2010, 05:19 AM

So glad I scrolled down far enough to find this excellent discussion! The topic is one I've been thinking about and hoping to discuss.

I submit images to BPN to get constructive critiques. I appreciate both the positive and the how-to-improve-your-image comments. This is exactly what I was hoping for when I first came to BPN, and it is why I stay here. I find this a most valuable learning tool. I appreciate the time and thought people give in making comments.

I find that commenting on the images of others, and reading the comments of others, helps me see better. Another good learning tool.

How I feel about photography as a whole: I love it! I take photos for fun and inspiration. I love discovering beauty through macro photography.

Two summers ago my goal was to have some of my photos in an exhibit. That goal has been met several times. I like seeing my images printed, matted and framed. Getting ready for an exhibit takes time and energy away from taking photos (I do my own matting and framing, but not printing). It also costs money. I'm currently rethinking this goal. I'm thinking that I want to fill my walls with my photos so I can enjoy them all the time.

I have loved photographs since I was a child. I wanted to pursue photography seriously when I was in college, but lacked the self-confidence and courage. In retirement, and with the encouragement of my husband and son, I am doing so now. Old dogs can learn new tricks. :D Digital has been a huge help

Biggest challenge in macro: finding enough time! Contending with wind, dealing with plant parts I don't want in the iimage but can't remove, getting a sharp image with a blurred BG, using a tripod in the field. I cannot hand hold my camera, and use a tripod 95% of the time. Live View has been invaluable for focusing.

Thank you BPN, forum moderators, members for sharing your photos and for commenting on mine!

**Anita Bower** · 06-20-2010, 05:31 AM

I have a question:

What do people do with their photos? Share them on a blog or website? Print them and hang them on their walls? Show them in exhibits? Give them to friends? Other?

I like to have a final product I can hold in my hands. Like knitting--I want to hold that afghan when I'm done.

**Anita Bower** · 06-20-2010, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by Ken Childs

most of the time using a tripod just isn't an option when shooting the kind of things I like to shoot.

This comment was a surprise to me. Why can't a tripod be used? My impression was that most macro phtographers use tripods.

I've recently reached the limits of my rather inexpensive tripod. I think it is time to invest in one that does not have a center column and is lightweight. I also need a new, steady ballhead.

**Anita Bower** · 06-20-2010, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by Desmond Chan

I think, after a while, you know what kind of comments you'd be getting and so, what's the purpose of posting if you pretty much know what other folks would say to your photograph?

Interesting. I usually don't know what others are going to say about my images.

**Anita Bower** · 06-20-2010, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by Paul Lagasi

In 2004 I decided on a personal goal before I die..to get an image of every bird in my "1963 Golden Guide", there are 699 birds in that book. Today I sit at 585 birds (3 cameras and numerous lenses later),

What a unique goal! Congratulations on 585! Impressive.

**Ken Childs** · 06-20-2010, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by Anita Bower

This comment was a surprise to me. Why can't a tripod be used? My impression was that most macro phtographers use tripods.

My favorite subjects are bugs, reptiles etc. In other words, they are subjects that won't hold still for long. If I take time to adjust a camera and a tripod, the subject will have moved or will have been completely scared off by all the extra movement.

**Anita Bower** · 06-20-2010, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by Dave Woeller

I have always come up a bit short in the confidence to critique others work, and lately I have looked at the shots posted, and formulated my thoughts before reading any other responses. Lately, and to my surprise, my thoughts seem to match the others quite closely. Something must be sinking in, and I am beginning to offer up more of my thoughts.

I do know what you mean about lack of confidence, and also, about formulating your thoughts before reading those of others. I try to write my comments before reading others. I encourage you to share your views of images posted here. It will be a learning experience for you, and for others.

**Anita Bower** · 06-20-2010, 06:07 AM

[quote=Cheryl Flory;518920] how to shoot macro in a place where the wind seems to never be still! How do you shoot then?
quote]
A plexiglass windscreen. See one here http://www.tinylandscapes.com/ Go to "workshops/on line courses", scroll down and look at third photo.
3 sides held together with transparent packing tape; tape so it can be folded shut. Use extra piece of plexiglass for the top.

**Anita Bower** · 06-20-2010, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by Ken Childs

My favorite subjects are bugs, reptiles etc. In other words, they are subjects that won't hold still for long. If I take time to adjust a camera and a tripod, the subject will have moved or will have been completely scared off by all the extra movement.

Oh. Of course!

**Ian McHenry** · 06-20-2010, 09:34 PM

Hi Jules
Like Ovidiu and yourself I too started out with a Canon Powershot in my case the Canon S2 and it really is a spoiler for macro photography especially ultra close.
With so much to learn in editing and nature photography techniques I still haven't got my head around best lens for macro images.Although I now have a digital SLR some of my favourite macros were taken with the S2 which is good in a way as it is nice and light to carry around, but when would the macro on the 70-300 or 18-55 give better images. Lots to learn !!! With our mid-winter here today I should make an effort as frosted leaves are so neat.
Ian Mc

**Ian McHenry** · 06-20-2010, 10:00 PM

Attached Images

Julie Kenward · 06-21-2010, 08:55 PM

Anita, and Ian, thanks for chiming in! I agree with you, Anita - I never really know what others are going to think of my work. I jump in and post and hope I guessed right but I've been pretty surprised by what others like or don't like in my images.

Ian, I think the process of learning when to use what lens can really only be learned through trial and error. I use my 100mm, my 70-200 and on occasion my 400mm. They all work and they all give me different results. After a few years of shooting mostly macro/flora images I usually know now which I want when but it still surprises me now and again!

**Anita Bower** · 06-22-2010, 04:43 AM

Jules: Is it unfair to ask you to answer the excellent questions you posed?

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