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Thread: Buffalo in river

  1. #1
    BPN Viewer Tom Graham's Avatar
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    Default Buffalo in river

    Taken in Sep 2009 in Sabi Sand Reserve, South Africa, (Kirkmans Kamp) on river fording/crossing. Late morning (I think?). Very little crop, colors etc. adjusted to taste, sharpened some, no cloning. ISO 400, 1/500sec, f8. 217mm equiv.
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    C&C, and repost solicited
    Tom
    Last edited by Axel Hildebrandt; 06-05-2010 at 05:23 AM.

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    Tom , one beautiful image and I liked the scape here
    TFS

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Tom was this shot with a 'Point & Shoot' or a DSLR?
    Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Lifetime Member Marc Mol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Tom was this shot with a 'Point & Shoot' or a DSLR?
    Exif is telling me D200 Steve.


  5. #5
    Alfred Forns
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    Like the feel, excellent setting and sure like the poses !!

    Marc if I didn't know any of the info would have guessed Nikon for the blue water, seems to reproduce different than Canon or any other brand !! Pleasing !!

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    BPN Viewer Tom Graham's Avatar
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    SK - DSLR, why? (Think I know, has to do with the color saturation, and something else?)
    But would rather discuss the merits (or not :) ) of the image itself.
    Tom
    ps - perhaps post processing has made a DSLR image look like a P&S? It could happen :)
    Last edited by Tom Graham; 06-04-2010 at 10:14 AM. Reason: added ps

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    My question was not related to the image, or it's merits, only that you had not included the camera used and I just wanted to know what you used, as previous postings were with a P&S Canon.

    But would rather discuss the merits (or not ) of the image itself.
    For me I can only do this when I know what it was shot with & the Exif data as this plays a role in any reply.
    Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    BPN Viewer Tom Graham's Avatar
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    Steve – having seen your insightful and expert work, replies, and comments, I do believe you find the EIXF data useful. Some of my previous postings were with P&S and some were with DSLR. This image was with a Nikon D200. For many photos taking during that safari I purposely underexposed (1/2 stop) them to insure highlight preservation. So this image required more Photoshop work than typical for me. The original jpg really looks bad (underexposed and flat) but I’ll put it up if asked to. Which leads me to the following below, what I see as pros and cons of showing camera information and EXIF data with the image.

    I know this is rather off-topic to this image critique but (since it’s my thread :) ) kindly allow me to elaborate some on why I think most of the technical data is not very relevant on BPN. (For other camera hardware sites like dpreview, it is important). And in fact may be confusing if not discouraging would be posters.

    1) There are a lot of lurkers on BPN, but maybe only %10(?) actually post images? How many of the lurkers are dissuaded from posting BPN because they don’t want their camera compared with a $8,000 Canon DSLR kit? And related, how many lurkers know or can find the demanded image EXIF information?

    2) Picture size, jpg, monitors. At only 1024 pixels image size (equal to about a quality 4x6 inch print, I’d say) how important is the camera make, ISO used, or mega pixel size of the shooting camera? Not very, I would submit. Monitors, ahh, here is the most variable piece of the whole critique/comment equation. How many of us are using laptops with TN type screens? The worst possible for image work/critique. The monitor (and its calibration) alone will likely negate any differences in DSLRs and P&S cameras images. Tough situation and I don’t know any way around it.

    3) In camera settings. (Not counting the fundamentals of: ISO, shutter speed, f stop). How did I set up the camera for jpgs, sharpening, color space, white balance, noise reduction, not to mention other modes such as vivid, portrait, landscape, etc. These setting have huge affect on image quality. But -wait- you say, you should be using RAW. Ok, so . . . .

    4) RAW processing and Post Processing (Photoshop). Both of these will make or break an image. At least as important as the camera used. And if I may say, even more so.

    5) Preconceived notions. Will the viewer (or critiquer, -Steve-?) knowing that the photo was made with a Nikon D3000 or a Canon 1DIV have expectations of the image? Expectations ranging - “well, good photo considering only a D3000 used”, or - “a 1DIV can do better than that”. I would like the viewer to judge the image as shown, letting it speak for itself. No matter whether it was done with a P&S or DSLR.

    Thanks for listening anyone and your “C&C and reposts/rebuttals” are welcome.

    Tom

  9. #9
    Alfred Forns
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    Tom your wrong on all points and would do well to try to understand.

    Don't like how you use the turn "lurker" wish that everyone would participate but sure appreciate all people looking. It is ridiculous to think anyone would be dissuaded to post because they do not have the top of the line pro camera. Exif information is useful to see why you stopped down, if you used enough shutter speed, did you have the right ISO etc. Without this information would be impossible to give a good critique, we don't just critique on the image composition but how it was made.

    Your second point also does not make sense. You are saying that unless we all have the same monitors etc commenting is not valid. Jpegs will be different from RAW in quality with any screen etc. and the exif info will be just as relevant, agin very few choose to shoot jpeg.

    Don't like at all the tone of your third point quoting you here "But -wait- you say, you should be using RAW. Ok, so . . . ." really got me going on this one Tom I'm just flat out saying ..do not do it again. Don't need to say more about your words or what was meant, it is clear no one has recommended shooting jpeg in this forum at any time. Do not like sarcasm on line.

    Your fifth point might be as wrong as any of the others. No one thinks that if a person uses a better camera will come up with a better image. See here I could use on your sarcastic images but not not. I'm just putting it to give you an idea of how bad they appear one line, you don't see expression body language etc. they just play sting and have no place here in BPN .. I could say .. is that your perception because of your equipment? .... see that has no place here at all and will be kept out.

    Any concerns you have always glad to discuss in private.

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    Co-Founder James Shadle's Avatar
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    1) There are a lot of lurkers on BPN, but maybe only %10(?) actually post images? How many of the lurkers are dissuaded from posting BPN because they don’t want their camera compared with a $8,000 Canon DSLR kit? And related, how many lurkers know or can find the demanded image EXIF information?
    Personally I love to post an image that was created using my least expensive kit! It's a "me not the camera" statement. Just goes to prove equipment is not the end all, be all.

    2) Picture size, jpg, monitors. At only 1024 pixels image size (equal to about a quality 4x6 inch print, I’d say) how important is the camera make, ISO used, or mega pixel size of the shooting camera? Not very, I would submit. Monitors, ahh, here is the most variable piece of the whole critique/comment equation. How many of us are using laptops with TN type screens? The worst possible for image work/critique. The monitor (and its calibration) alone will likely negate any differences in DSLRs and P&S cameras images. Tough situation and I don’t know any way around it. I agree for viewing images, a calibrated monitor is very important. I disagree on EXIF data, like ISO, exposure bias, shutter speed etc. Many issues can be settled by reading that info.
    If the image was soft, what was the shutter speed. If the image was noisy was it due to underexposure or high ISO?


    3) In camera settings. (Not counting the fundamentals of: ISO, shutter speed, f stop). How did I set up the camera for jpgs, sharpening, color space, white balance, noise reduction, not to mention other modes such as vivid, portrait, landscape, etc. These setting have huge affect on image quality. But -wait- you say, you should be using RAW. Ok, so . . . .
    If you are shooting .jpg only you are limiting your possibilities. However, if you shoot .jpg or RAW and convert using just the in camera settings, providing the "shooting" data will help others to offer a much more accurate, concise critique.

    4) RAW processing and Post Processing (Photoshop). Both of these will make or break an image. At least as important as the camera used. And if I may say, even more so.
    I agree, however if you get it right in the camera to start with, PS is not an issue.

    5) Preconceived notions. Will the viewer (or critiquer, -Steve-?) knowing that the photo was made with a Nikon D3000 or a Canon 1DIV have expectations of the image? Expectations ranging - “well, good photo considering only a D3000 used”, or - “a 1DIV can do better than that”. I would like the viewer to judge the image as shown, letting it speak for itself. No matter whether it was done with a P&S or DSLR.
    You may have missed my thread on posting instructions and guideline.Please find below the link and quotes from it.
    Posting an image for critique is an excellent way to rapidly improve any photographers ability to create beautiful images. You can help those offering image critiques by listing details of the capture process.

    Listed below are some of the details to include in your post that will help you receive the best critique possible.




    Thought Process

    • Were you creating a Portrait?


    • An Environmental Image etc.


    • What obstacles did you face in creating your image?


    • Location


    • If an animal, what species? Was your subject captive? Did you attract your subject or subjects into photographic range with food, water, audio, or any other means?


    • Was your image significantly altered by adding or removing elements of the composition post shutter?


    • Time of day, weather conditions etc.


    Capture

    • Camera Type and Model


    • Lens Focal Length and Model


    • ISO, Metering Mode, Exposure Mode


    • Exposure Compensation (if used)


    • Shutter Speed, Aperture


    • Focus Mode


    • Tripod, Tripod Head


    • Flash, Flash Settings


    Post Processing

    • Crop


    • USM


    • Levels/Curves


    • Noise Reduction


    • Cloning or other modification



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