Tripod Question

[Roman Kurywczak]

*Update* I just found my original warranty/care card with my tripod.....it does state; Dry and/or clean the product after use in wet/sand/dusty environments. Not recommended for sea water.......so it was in there. It does also state that: It is recommended that the equipment (camera) be removed from the support (tripod) for transportation......so that must include carryiing and makes the plate issue moot (I guess?).
While this does cover 1 of the questions entirely, I hope that Kevin replies to the other issues/questions more in depth.

BTW While the "Ocean Traveler" does indeed have the water and sand resistant lock.....doesn't really work in most cases for photgraphy as it is only rated for 8.8lbs.....with flash on my landscape set up with the Mark lll and the 28-135mm lens it all exceeds the weight limit (Graf Studioball).....so not practical for most applications on BPN....including macro as the twin light setup weighs even more.

......which brings me to another question for Kevin: Is Gitzo planning on putting the Ocean Traveler locks on their other tripods?

[Kevin Lackey]

Hey Kevin,
Nice to see you joined the forum. Are you saying there was no issue with the original Gitzo fiber bushing?.....didn't it also swell in fresh water?
Did my original (6 year old) paperwork say not to put it into salt water? (I know the new ones do)
Is there a warning that comes with the tripods about the plate falling off....which has been mentioned in many online forums also....if not, why?

I will say that Gary from Hunt's Photo and the Gitzo rep Stan have offered to make this right.....but wanted to wait until the issue was fully resolved today.....so you beat me to it. Gizo is working with me to make this right and will post the results as soon as it is finalized.

Thanks for the welcome, Roman,

As for the fiber bushings, it's not so much an "issue" as simply a characteristic of the material. For example, the air pressure in your car's tires will change in relation to temperature and atmospheric conditions, yet we would not suggest that the rubber used in the tire has an "issue". The shims are the same way. They are porous and as such Gitzo to my knowledge since we became their exclusicve US distributer in the early 90s has always recommended proper cleaning via disassembly when used in water. Salt water adds an additional level of urgency as it is so terribly corrosive.

As for the mentioned top plates, I have had correspondance with other customers about this issue and I personally brought this to the attention of product management to be forwarded to the engineers in Italy. Gitzo has used this design for clamping their top plates for 90 years now without issue, but in the last 12 months or so, we have had spotted reports back to us. It is still under investigation, so I can't yet comment on an "Official" solution.

[Kevin Lackey]

Hey Kevin, Glad to see you stopping by. I hope that I did not get myself into too much trouble :) Hey, can you or someone else at Gitzo answer the following questions: how do the diameters of the bottom leg sections of the 1341 XLS and the 1341 LS compare?

If they are the same, what is the diameter.

If they are different, what are the diameters?

And lastly, what is the diameter of the lower leg section of the 1341?

ps: Who said anything about cleaning sand off of cameras and lenses??? :confused:

Hi Art, the diameters should be the same; about about 3/4". They areonly different in the lengths, but I'll need to pull some from stock and take some measurements for you to confirm this.

[Kevin Lackey]

*Update* I just found my original warranty/care card with my tripod.....it does state; Dry and/or clean the product after use in wet/sand/dusty environments. Not recommended for sea water.......so it was in there. .

Well I am certainly glad you found that paperwork. We try to maintain an honest rapport with our customers.

It does also state that: It is recommended that the equipment (camera) be removed from the support (tripod) for transportation......so that must include carryiing and makes the plate issue moot (I guess?). While this does cover 1 of the questions entirely, I hope that Kevin replies to the other issues/questions more in depth

We also recommend that the over-the-shoulder method that photographers use be supplemented by at least your camera's neck strap, and that the lens be cradled on the shoulder, not the tripod itself. In the interim of the whole loose plate situation, we recommend that you take a quick look at your gear before you use it as part of a routine inspection. Professional drivers refer to this as "nut & bolting" so that they dont find themselves in trouble while out on the track. So keep that little torx wrench that came with the tripod handy. The 10 seconds it takes to check every once in a while can spare a 600mm lens.

BTW While the "Ocean Traveler" does indeed have the water and sand resistant lock.....doesn't really work in most cases for photgraphy as it is only rated for 8.8lbs.....with flash on my landscape set up with the Mark lll and the 28-135mm lens it all exceeds the weight limit (Graf Studioball).....so not practical for most applications on BPN....including macro as the twin light setup weighs even more.......which brings me to another question for Kevin: Is Gitzo planning on putting the Ocean Traveler locks on their other tripods?

The Traveler series is for just that; lightweight travel solutions. It was never intended for use for wildlife or sports applications with very large and heavy lenses.

[Roman Kurywczak]

Hey Kevin,
Thanks for the reply! what neck strap?:D.....this is also called a wind catcher so many people don't/shouldn't use it.....even for landscapes! I f we took a pool, I'd be willing to say that the overwhelming numbers are that people don't use the neck strap.....only when hand holding or to hang it from the tripod.

I will now recommend that people take the big glass off the tripo now.....better safe than sorry!

Should I recommend that they always take apart the tripod when used in water.....salt or otherwise?

Glad to see Gitzo working on the plate repots....and on another irony......did you happen to see the indy races......lots of tires off .....maybe race car tires is not a good example to use...as there are plenty of defects in the rubber tires.....remember firestone passenger car tires?......not saying that is the case here....just an FYI.

[John Chardine]

Thanks for the welcome, Roman,

As for the fiber bushings, it's not so much an "issue" as simply a characteristic of the material. For example, the air pressure in your car's tires will change in relation to temperature and atmospheric conditions, yet we would not suggest that the rubber used in the tire has an "issue". The shims are the same way. They are porous and as such Gitzo to my knowledge since we became their exclusicve US distributer in the early 90s has always recommended proper cleaning via disassembly when used in water. Salt water adds an additional level of urgency as it is so terribly corrosive.

As for the mentioned top plates, I have had correspondance with other customers about this issue and I personally brought this to the attention of product management to be forwarded to the engineers in Italy. Gitzo has used this design for clamping their top plates for 90 years now without issue, but in the last 12 months or so, we have had spotted reports back to us. It is still under investigation, so I can't yet comment on an "Official" solution.

Hi Kevin- and welcome to BPN as well.

There's been one thread I know of on BPN regarding the top plate coming off the legs of Gitzo tripods, here:

http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...ht=gitzo+plate

The problem is well known enough that a commercial solution is available here:

http://www.naturescapes.net/docs/ind...richard-peters

I came up with my own solution here:

http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...ad.php?t=64125

When I received my model 3531 Gitzo tripod I noticed right away that there is no fail-safe for the top plate falling away from the Systematic tripods if the pinch bolt is not tight (I'm a motorcycle restorer in my spare time and my motto is "if it can go wrong, it will go wrong"- this is AKA "Sod's Law"). Gitzo makes a lot out of the Safe Lock system on the top plate and there's even a little grub screw to tighten down on the underside of the head to stop it unscrewing, but there is no mechanism to prevent the top plate from coming away from the tripod legs, except for the pinch bolt. I can think of several ways of engineering a solution that is much more elegant than mine or the commercial one so I am confident it will happen sometime in the future.

There is an analogous example in the area of Arca-Swiss plates and clamps. If you don't tighten the clamp, the plate can slide out, so guess what, almost all plates now come with two little safety screws to stop a catastrophic slide in the event that "Sods's Law" takes effect. I doubt whether plates have slid out too often in the past but those two little screws give you a whole lot of peace of mind in any case.

[Roman Kurywczak]

Hey Kevin,
Still waiting for a rely to John's question/inquiry.....but I also have one more very interesting question that I have been contemplating since you posted the neck strap part of your post above........are you a photographer?....use the equipment in the field? I think the BPN membership has a right to know the answers to these questions as well as John's B4 they evaluate your responses.

[Kevin Lackey]

Hi Kevin- and welcome to BPN as well.

There's been one thread I know of on BPN regarding the top plate coming off the legs of Gitzo tripods, here:

http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...ht=gitzo+plate

The problem is well known enough that a commercial solution is available here:

http://www.naturescapes.net/docs/ind...richard-peters

I came up with my own solution here:

http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...ad.php?t=64125

When I received my model 3531 Gitzo tripod I noticed right away that there is no fail-safe for the top plate falling away from the Systematic tripods if the pinch bolt is not tight (I'm a motorcycle restorer in my spare time and my motto is "if it can go wrong, it will go wrong"- this is AKA "Sod's Law"). Gitzo makes a lot out of the Safe Lock system on the top plate and there's even a little grub screw to tighten down on the underside of the head to stop it unscrewing, but there is no mechanism to prevent the top plate from coming away from the tripod legs, except for the pinch bolt. I can think of several ways of engineering a solution that is much more elegant than mine or the commercial one so I am confident it will happen sometime in the future.

There is an analogous example in the area of Arca-Swiss plates and clamps. If you don't tighten the clamp, the plate can slide out, so guess what, almost all plates now come with two little safety screws to stop a catastrophic slide in the event that "Sods's Law" takes effect. I doubt whether plates have slid out too often in the past but those two little screws give you a whole lot of peace of mind in any case.

Hi John, Thank you for welcome as well, and especially for those links. For 80 some-odd years, the Gitzo top plate was secured by a hex bolt which IIRC, was a 13mm. We never had any reports of failures with them. With that said, the top castings changed to the current style, securing the plates with a torx bolt. This is when the reports started.

Those reports were sent to the product manager at the time, who has since moved on to other employment. I believe he forwarded this information on to the engineers, but I'll check with management here to see if they have any records of a reply. In all fairness to those involved, I really dont want to comment on something I have not seen or read personally.

The naturescapes plate is quite nice, but you lose the counter weight hook in the process. Yours maintains it, which I like, personally.

Off topic, I enjoy motorcycling myself and have fabricated some fun little bits and brackets as well to adapt a fairing from a 2003 Harley to my 2006 Kawasaki Vulcan. :)

[Kevin Lackey]

Hey Kevin,
Still waiting for a rely to John's question/inquiry.....but I also have one more very interesting question that I have been contemplating since you posted the neck strap part of your post above........are you a photographer?....use the equipment in the field? I think the BPN membership has a right to know the answers to these questions as well as John's B4 they evaluate your responses.

As I mentioned in my previous post, My days are pretty full, so I don't get much time to participate in many web forums.

I will admit, I'm a bit surprised that you would even ask that of me. A pro D-SLR and a 600mm lens is about $12-14,000, give or take. Are you insinuating that I am not a photographer because I suggested to use the carry strap?

To answer you, I am a photographer. I am not independantly wealthy to risk $15K by tossing it over my shoulder without an additional safety tether, regardless to what tripod it may be connected to.

[Roman Kurywczak]

Hey Kevin,
No instant e-mail notification....so late reply. I asked if you were a photographer to make sure that you were answering from a photgraphers perspective. I am not independently wealthy.....that's why paying $ for a lifetime warranty infuriates me. Stay tuned for my reply tomrrow evening....I'm sure Gitzo will enjoy it.
Now for the paperwork that came with the brand new Gitzo.....it does say not recommended for use in sea water...nowhere does it state....don't use in sea water but if you do remove and clean all the leg locks. It also saydsto not have the camera on when carrying it. I mention both of these because I think if the general buying public knew that they had to disassemble the tripod every time it got dusty, dirty, or wet......they may consider this a nuisance and make another decision. Furthermore....It also says to clean with mild detergent and remove dust and sand from all locking threads and sliding segments......is that the part that I am to interpret as "take your tripod apart every time it gets wet or gets dirty"?....and where does it say that this will void my warranty if I don't do it? Are you saying the warranty is void if I use it in salt water? Is my warranty void if it gets sandy?....dusty? It is strictly your call....correct?
I also ask this because I just returned a Delkin card.....for lifetime warranty issue.....brand new 32 gig card arrived today....after check up. LowePro bag a few years ago.....same thing....warranty honored and bag fixed.
You keep mentioning the 12-15 thousand for the camera gear.....you fail to realize that the most expensive tripod on the market......fits into that bill.
BTW.....you will see that most pros don't use straps when using the long lenses.....they catch the wind.....so if your images are a bit soft......could be the culprit. I will now remove the lens off the tripod and recommend the same to others.
I find your boxed company response laughable.....so I don't really expect or want a response. For 80 some odd years "Firestone Tires"....also didn't have a problem....when treads started falling off....the company said: "What tread defect?" Toyota.....what braking problem? I think the company has known about these issues for years......that's why you stopped making the fiber bushings. Interestingly enough....many of my friend traded their tripods in to you years ago......when you had 50% off sales.....or repaired them for $100 or so. You may not be independently wealthy.....but considering the new Gitzo pricing policies.....and how they take $600 from clients on a regular basis......does make you wonder. Stay tuned.....not done yet.

[Dave Hassell]

I have been following this thread with interest and amazement. I can’t believe anyone would put their tripod into sea water and not expect it to be damaged especially when the manufacturer recommends against doing so. Gitzo even gave instructions to clean and maintain it if it did get wet.
I have had a Gitzo 410 for about 20 years and a 1548 since they were introduced some years ago and I have not had any trouble with them at all. Why? Because I have never put them into sea water and I regularly service them. I will have missed some images but that is not such a problem for me.
Also, I have not had any problems with the base plate falling out although when I learned about the potential problem from BPN I made my own bottom plate from a piece of ¼ inch aluminium plate just in case which is kept in place with a wingnut (butterfly nut). I have an eye bolt that goes right through to the Wimberley head so I have kept a hook for hanging a stabilizing weight on. The aluminium plate and the eye bolt only cost a couple of GBP and took a couple of hours to make with a hacksaw and file.
I do not understand why Roman compares the Delkin and LowePro warranty actions to the Gitzo warranty. Would Delkin replace their 32 gb card if the owner had been daft enough to immerse it in sea water? Of course not and I doubt if LowePro would have replaced their bag if it had been damaged by also being submerged in sea water.
My vote goes for Gitzo although I am sure there are other reliable brands of tripods that other users are satisfied with.
Dave Hassell.

[Roman Kurywczak]

I have been following this thread with interest and amazement. I can’t believe anyone would put their tripod into sea water and not expect it to be damaged especially when the manufacturer recommends against doing so. Gitzo even gave instructions to clean and maintain it if it did get wet.
Does it say take it apart completely in your instructions?
I have had a Gitzo 410 for about 20 years and a 1548 since they were introduced some years ago and I have not had any trouble with them at all. Why? Because I have never put them into sea water and I regularly service them. I will have missed some images but that is not such a problem for me.
I'm happy that not putting it into sea water is an option for you! As it is the most expensive tripod on the market and I travel frequently, I do not want to carry 2 tripods. I am also happy that missing images is not a problem for you personally......not my case. How many days do you photogrpah that you have all that time?
Also, I have not had any problems with the base plate falling out although when I learned about the potential problem from BPN I made my own bottom plate from a piece of ¼ inch aluminium plate just in case which is kept in place with a wingnut (butterfly nut). I have an eye bolt that goes right through to the Wimberley head so I have kept a hook for hanging a stabilizing weight on. The aluminium plate and the eye bolt only cost a couple of GBP and took a couple of hours to make with a hacksaw and file.
So you are willing to make your own plate to secure it.....why exactly did you pay all that $$$ for the tripod? Why doesn't Gitzo make a plate? Why don't they send out a recommendation? BTW....my 1348 didn't have that problem that I am aware of.
I do not understand why Roman compares the Delkin and LowePro warranty actions to the Gitzo warranty. Would Delkin replace their 32 gb card if the owner had been daft enough to immerse it in sea water? Of course not and I doubt if LowePro would have replaced their bag if it had been damaged by also being submerged in sea water.
Delkin clearly states that if you drop it in water....it is toast (although I have heard of a few cases of people drying them).
My vote goes for Gitzo although I am sure there are other reliable brands of tripods that other users are satisfied with.
Dave Hassell.

I am fine with your vote Dave....as a matter of fact, that is your choice how you choose to spend your money! All I want to do is inform people that 1, there are plate issues and 2, if you put it in sea water.....Gitzo will tell you your warranty is void. 3, if you choose to put it in sea water.....take it apart completely!
Knowing these 3 facts.....people can then chose how they want to spend their $ or time.

[Lorant Voros]

I thing this is great to advice people and know what they spend their money on. I also go into sea water and I don't and can't carry two tripods. Dropping your gear due to a bad design isn't the best thing with an 800 dollars tripod. I hope Gitzo will see this as an opportunity to fix this design fault and I hope they will offer a solution for the existing tripods as well. Until than...we make our own I guess. My choice still went for Gitzo. I hope I won’t regret it. :-). I certainly make sure I master the maintenance tricks.

[Dave Hassell]

Just to avoid any confusion, I certainly do not carry 2 heavy tripods around as just 1 is enough for my ageing bones and they do not get used a great deal as I imagine Roman’s must do. Bird photography is only a hobby for me when I get enough time although I wish for more.
I completely agree with the comments about the base plate falling off. There must be many Gitzo owners who will be unaware of the problem until theirs fail. Now that Gitzo are aware of the problem I believe they should come up with a cost free solution for existing owners.
The NatureScapes Safety Plate appears to be an excellent product but at $84.95 for the larger one it is an expensive solution. My solution was very cheap and just as effective although I agree that it should not have come to that. When I get a spare moment I will post some images of it.
Dave Hassell.

[John Chardine]

Hi Kevin- Also caught by the problem we have been having with no reply notifications. Sorry for the delay in responding. Anyways many thanks for your response. I'm sure a company like Gitzo, which has a proven track record of quality engineering, will come up with a solution. In the meantime, I'm loving my 3531! Well done on the motorcycle renovations! My most cherished machine tool is a 1964 Myford Super 7 lathe. It is a pleasure to use and surprisingly useful for work on tripods!

John

Hi John, Thank you for welcome as well, and especially for those links. For 80 some-odd years, the Gitzo top plate was secured by a hex bolt which IIRC, was a 13mm. We never had any reports of failures with them. With that said, the top castings changed to the current style, securing the plates with a torx bolt. This is when the reports started.

Those reports were sent to the product manager at the time, who has since moved on to other employment. I believe he forwarded this information on to the engineers, but I'll check with management here to see if they have any records of a reply. In all fairness to those involved, I really dont want to comment on something I have not seen or read personally.

The naturescapes plate is quite nice, but you lose the counter weight hook in the process. Yours maintains it, which I like, personally.

Off topic, I enjoy motorcycling myself and have fabricated some fun little bits and brackets as well to adapt a fairing from a 2003 Harley to my 2006 Kawasaki Vulcan. :)

[Roman Kurywczak]

Finaly figured out video.....not the best debut.....but figured it might bring a smile to your face; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGCAve4K2uA