A mouthFul

[Don Hamilton Jr.]

Gang, i welcome your ideas here, i still can't bring out hte details even after adjusting the numbers to below 140 for the whites. I'm missing something, so if you have an ideas, let it rip. Slight crop as this capture took up almost the entire Frame.
Thks
Don

Firmware Firmware Version 1.1.0
Shooting Date/Time 5/13/2010 6:17:10 PM
Owner's Name
Shooting Mode Aperture-Priority AE
Tv( Shutter Speed ) 1/800
Av( Aperture Value ) 5.6
Metering Mode Evaluative Metering
Exposure Compensation -2/3
ISO Speed 1000
Auto ISO Speed OFF
Lens EF500mm f/4L IS USM +1.4x
Focal Length 700.0mm
Image Size 5184x3456
Image Quality RAW
Flash On
Flash Type External E-TTL
E-TTL II flash metering Evaluative flash metering

[Lance Peters]

Hi Don - I would say the problem might lay with the flash - looks over flashed to my eyes - I rarely use E-TTL preferring to work in manual - really want the flash just to fill in the shadows and provide a catchlight. Ill often be at 1/8th power (Depending on subject and distance to subject) - the exposure needs to be correct whether the flash fires or not - then the flash will just be the cream on the top.

Like the action. Thats a big mouthful!!

[Tom Graham]

"Details" requires "edges". "Edges" require a difference in luminance or color. A piece of white paper viewed at a meter has no visible detail because there are no visible edges. These white Egrets are much the same. Their feathers seem to be uniformly white all across, edge-to-edge, and feather-to-feather. (Someone actually have some Egret feathers?). So, how do you photograph to show what minor edges/details there are? Whomever has those Egret feathers (or even the -bird-) show us how to photograph them for detail. (No fair putting one feather on a black BG!!!)
Tom

[Ann Fiske]

Hi Don,
What a great catch! :) Did you watch him swallow it?
I'd crop the bottom just almost to the top of the wing, and a little off the right. Just an idea.

Ann

[Alfred Forns]

Hi Don When flash a white bird will loose feather detail !! Lance is right about that !!! The flash will fill in the shadows and all detail will be lost .. most any way. You can set the flash manually at 1/8 or better 1/16 and will work mighty fine !!!

As presented would go tighter, the action is on the fish and want to zero in on the area !!! Excellent !!!

[Fabs Forns]

"Details" requires "edges". "Edges" require a difference in luminance or color. A piece of white paper viewed at a meter has no visible detail because there are no visible edges. These white Egrets are much the same. Their feathers seem to be uniformly white all across, edge-to-edge, and feather-to-feather. (Someone actually have some Egret feathers?). So, how do you photograph to show what minor edges/details there are? Whomever has those Egret feathers (or even the -bird-) show us how to photograph them for detail. (No fair putting one feather on a black BG!!!)
Tom

Tom, I beg to disagree. There is lots of detail in white birds, you just need the little of shadow between each feather to show the difference. I'm going to post a white swan, so you see what I mean. I do not like to use flash on white birds because it fills the texture and makes the whites uniform unless you are using it very softly and just for a catch light.

Don, covering another base, if you had used a smaller aperture, like f/11 if you were close to the bird, you may have had a bit more detail in the fish.

[Tom Graham]

Fabs, I think we are agreeing. Yes -shadow- is required. When it is all the same color, be it white, blue, yellow. The shadow causes the difference in luminance thus the edge thus the detail.
And I feel that it is harder to get detail in a white bird (Egret) than a typical "colored" bird because of the sameness of the white feathers. On another photo, another site, there was an Egret shot and I was sure the whites were blown. Because I saw no feather detail (and smallish photo). I was wrong, when taken into Photoshop there was nothing above 240. Problem was, it was ALL 240!!! (So no detail).
Tom

[Kerry Perkins]

Snippet from the original post:

(Someone actually have some Egret feathers?). So, how do you photograph to show what minor edges/details there are? Whomever has those Egret feathers (or even the -bird-) show us how to photograph them for detail.
Tom

Tom, absolutely it is possible to get details in egrets, just like any other white bird. You can also get details in black birds. There's no secret - it's all about exposure. If you overexpose a white bird of course you get no details. If you underexpose a black bird you get no details. So the answer to your question on how to photograph egrets to show details is simply don't overexpose. Flash has a tendency to overexpose a lot of birds when used too heavily, especially white ones.

So anyway, here are some egret feathers for you - captured in full sun.

50D, 400mm f/5.6
f/5.6@1/4000 sec
handheld, no flash

[Tom Graham]

Thanks KP, indeed a splendid Egret shot with lots of feather details. Think I'll save it as a beautiful example of white feather detail. Love that blue sky also. (Wonder why so many skies here have a cyan cast?). Thanks.
Tom