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Thread: Integrated Fur Seals

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    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    Default Integrated Fur Seals

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    Very late in the day at the end of our second landing at Right Whale Bay, S. Georgia, these two cutie fur pups decided to get together for a play and then they collapsed (to be posted!). Once in a while we encountered this genetic anomaly of a blonde pup.

    We, me and the pups, were surrounded by fur seals; I shot wide open to blurr the background seals as much as possible. Cloned out two bodies that partially entered the frame. The focal point was the blonde pup's mouth.

    Camera: 7D
    Capture date/time: 6 Jan 10; 7:30PM
    Light condition: fading-getting dark
    Lens: 300 f/2.8
    Focal length: 300
    Extender: none
    Distance: 14m
    Tube: none
    Flash/Comp: no
    ISO: 500
    Exp Prog: Tv
    Speed: 1/250 sec
    Aperture: f/2.8
    Exp Comp: +1 1/3
    Metering: Evaluative
    WB: Auto
    AF Drive: AI Servo
    Tripod: yes
    Filter: None
    Crop: Minimal
    Image changes: Removed some seal bodies partially into the frame
    Processed in LR 3 (beta) and then CS4 - plus Topaz Suite and Pixel Genius Sharpening.
    All C&Cs gratefully appreciated!
    Last edited by Jay Gould; 02-17-2010 at 11:14 AM. Reason: Corrected location
    Cheers, Jay

    My Digital Art - "Nature Interpreted" - can now be view at http://www.luvntravlnphotography.com

    "Nature Interpreted" - Photography begins with your mind and eyes, and ends with an image representing your vision and your reality of the captured scene; photography exceeds the camera sensor's limitations. Capturing and Processing landscapes and seascapes allows me to express my vision and reality of Nature.

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    Excellent image Jay , lovely pose by both pups and color difference of both pups working well here
    If mine , I will another round of sharpness on seal pups. F8 would have been my choice in this case
    TFS

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    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harshad Barve View Post
    Excellent image Jay , lovely pose by both pups and color difference of both pups working well here If mine , I will another round of sharpness on seal pups. F8 would have been my choice in this case TFS
    Harshad, I was torn regarding f/stop and SS. If I shot at f/8 I would have had to reduce SS 3 stops and I was concerned about the pups' head movements and loosing the look of the eyes. How do you deal with that? Thanks for commenting.
    Cheers, Jay

    My Digital Art - "Nature Interpreted" - can now be view at http://www.luvntravlnphotography.com

    "Nature Interpreted" - Photography begins with your mind and eyes, and ends with an image representing your vision and your reality of the captured scene; photography exceeds the camera sensor's limitations. Capturing and Processing landscapes and seascapes allows me to express my vision and reality of Nature.

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    It all depend upon tele lenses handling techniques , I have much confidence in my technique on long or tele lenses , I have so many images of Oriental dwarf KF taken at 1/20 on my 600 mm at ISO 200. I will always consider DOF while depressing shutter

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    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harshad Barve View Post
    It all depend upon tele lenses handling techniques , I have much confidence in my technique on long or tele lenses , I have so many images of Oriental dwarf KF taken at 1/20 on my 600 mm at ISO 200. I will always consider DOF while depressing shutter
    Mate, can you expand on the "tele lenses handling technique". My initial reaction is that while the best technique will "freeze" the lens, no matter how immovable the lens is the subject can still move. Thanks,
    Cheers, Jay

    My Digital Art - "Nature Interpreted" - can now be view at http://www.luvntravlnphotography.com

    "Nature Interpreted" - Photography begins with your mind and eyes, and ends with an image representing your vision and your reality of the captured scene; photography exceeds the camera sensor's limitations. Capturing and Processing landscapes and seascapes allows me to express my vision and reality of Nature.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi Jay

    The 300f/2.8 is Canon's sharpest tool in the box with superb razor sharp quality. The focus looks to be on the correct pup, but the rh pup moved during the shot, hence lack of detail/clarity (1/250). Sadly I don't think another round of USM will help, but if you do try, only apply it to the lh pup. Seals & pups are great fun, full of curiosity and once they know you mean no harm they will accept you in and are very cooperative, but don't ever get between Mum & pup.:)

    If you open the RAW in DPP and do Apple J or whatever the PC equivalent is, this will show you exactly where the focus point was positioned. If it is not in the correct spot ie the eye then anywhere else is not going to help sadly. BTW did you shot TV or AV?

    Look forward to seeing more.;)

    Steve
    PS
    You could have increased your ISO to 800 to give you a ad more speed as you were wide open, but would increase noise.
    Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Hi Jay

    The 300f/2.8 is Canon's sharpest tool in the box with superb razor sharp quality. The focus looks to be on the correct pup, but the rh pup moved during the shot, hence lack of detail/clarity (1/250). Sadly I don't think another round of USM will help, but if you do try, only apply it to the lh pup. Seals & pups are great fun, full of curiosity and once they know you mean no harm they will accept you in and are very cooperative, but don't ever get between Mum & pup.:)

    If you open the RAW in DPP and do Apple J or whatever the PC equivalent is, this will show you exactly where the focus point was positioned. If it is not in the correct spot ie the eye then anywhere else is not going to help sadly. BTW did you shot TV or AV?

    Look forward to seeing more.;)

    Steve

    PS
    You could have increased your ISO to 800 to give you a ad more speed as you were wide open, but would increase noise.
    Hi Steve, shot at Tv as indicated in the specs. I use BB for seeing the focal point - it was right on the blonde's pups mouth. I had focused on the space between the eyes and the lil' bugger lifted his head and gave me better presentation at the moment of creation.
    Last edited by Jay Gould; 02-17-2010 at 09:00 AM.
    Cheers, Jay

    My Digital Art - "Nature Interpreted" - can now be view at http://www.luvntravlnphotography.com

    "Nature Interpreted" - Photography begins with your mind and eyes, and ends with an image representing your vision and your reality of the captured scene; photography exceeds the camera sensor's limitations. Capturing and Processing landscapes and seascapes allows me to express my vision and reality of Nature.

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    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    This is weird!

    I have the following email from BPN regarding a post by Harshad:

    ---Quote (Originally by Jay Gould)---
    Mate, can you expand on the "tele lenses handling technique".
    ---End Quote---

    Do you want me to share my technique :confused::confused: BTW I agree with you , subject can move
    ***************
    I think someone posted and deleted their post :p

    In answer to the question - yes! I would like to know your technique; I am sure we all can learn something from someone who shoots with a 600 at 1/20, ISO 200, when he could up the ISO a bit and also the SS without changing the f/stop. Always willing and wanting to learn. ;)
    Cheers, Jay

    My Digital Art - "Nature Interpreted" - can now be view at http://www.luvntravlnphotography.com

    "Nature Interpreted" - Photography begins with your mind and eyes, and ends with an image representing your vision and your reality of the captured scene; photography exceeds the camera sensor's limitations. Capturing and Processing landscapes and seascapes allows me to express my vision and reality of Nature.

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    No amount of lens handling technique in the world can freeze a non-static subject at 1/20...only God can help there . ;-p

    I pay/paid for that 2.8 aperture to use while others can pack up their cameras and just watch :-)
    Last edited by Kiran Khanzode; 02-17-2010 at 09:10 AM.

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    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiran Khanzode View Post
    No amount of lens handling technique in the world can freeze a non-static subject at 1/20...only God can help there . ;-p

    I pay/paid for that 2.8 aperture to use while others can pack up their cameras and just watch :-)

    :D :D
    Cheers, Jay

    My Digital Art - "Nature Interpreted" - can now be view at http://www.luvntravlnphotography.com

    "Nature Interpreted" - Photography begins with your mind and eyes, and ends with an image representing your vision and your reality of the captured scene; photography exceeds the camera sensor's limitations. Capturing and Processing landscapes and seascapes allows me to express my vision and reality of Nature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Gould View Post
    This is weird!

    I have the following email from BPN regarding a post by Harshad:



    I think someone posted and deleted their post :p

    In answer to the question - yes! I would like to know your technique; I am sure we all can learn something from someone who shoots with a 600 at 1/20, ISO 200, when he could up the ISO a bit and also the SS without changing the f/stop. Always willing and wanting to learn. ;)
    Yes I deleted it as I recall that we have discussed this in other forum

    BTW here is one image at 1/20 , exif intact http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...ad.php?t=56081
    I guess I just wanted to say you could have gone on to f8 to get both seal well in focus.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi Jay

    If you are shooting wildlife AV is your best friend. For me at that angle I would have put the focus point on the left eye as that is your 'focus point' so to speak, but that is my take as we all have different agendas when shooting & preferences.

    BTW What is BB?

    cheers
    Steve
    Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Gould View Post
    :D :D
    Here is that thread on long lens techs

    http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...lens+technique

  14. #14
    Alfred Forns
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    Hi Jay

    Great points by Steve and fully agree !!

    Exposure mode wise would not recommend Tv unless you need a particular shutter speed for a special effect. Would go with Av or in this case manual, if the meter picks up mostly black or not will greatly affect the exposure. Also do raise the ISO, the 7D is a good performer.

    Not sure how much you could move around but would have been great having those pups with a clean bg, cute image and got to love those stares !!!

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    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Hi Jay

    If you are shooting wildlife AV is your best friend. For me at that angle I would have put the focus point on the left eye as that is your 'focus point' so to speak, but that is my take as we all have different agendas when shooting & preferences.

    BTW What is BB?

    cheers
    Steve
    Love the education received from all of you!

    Steve, BB is Breeze Browser Pro - best triage program I have used; thank you Artie!
    Cheers, Jay

    My Digital Art - "Nature Interpreted" - can now be view at http://www.luvntravlnphotography.com

    "Nature Interpreted" - Photography begins with your mind and eyes, and ends with an image representing your vision and your reality of the captured scene; photography exceeds the camera sensor's limitations. Capturing and Processing landscapes and seascapes allows me to express my vision and reality of Nature.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Thought so Jay, but just needed to be sure, as I use Photo Mechanic as that is the equivalent for Mac's.

    Steve;)
    Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfred Forns View Post
    Hi Jay

    Great points by Steve and fully agree !!

    Exposure mode wise would not recommend Tv unless you need a particular shutter speed for a special effect. Would go with Av or in this case manual, if the meter picks up mostly black or not will greatly affect the exposure. Also do raise the ISO, the 7D is a good performer.

    Not sure how much you could move around but would have been great having those pups with a clean bg, cute image and got to love those stares !!!
    Al, if I went Av then the SS could have dropped even more as the light faded; correct?

    There was no moving around for a "clean bg". Frankly, I prefer the adult seals blurred behind the pups as it gives the images more of a story.
    Cheers, Jay

    My Digital Art - "Nature Interpreted" - can now be view at http://www.luvntravlnphotography.com

    "Nature Interpreted" - Photography begins with your mind and eyes, and ends with an image representing your vision and your reality of the captured scene; photography exceeds the camera sensor's limitations. Capturing and Processing landscapes and seascapes allows me to express my vision and reality of Nature.

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    Jay, had you been in Av mode (which I agree could be the mode of choice here -with you tweaking ISO), at 2.8, yes SS could have dropped, but you could always up the ISO to compensate.
    Harshad brought up a good point to me...why +1.3 exposure comp ? You could have overexposed slightly lower (and gotten somewhat higher SS) and then could have afforded going down to, say, f/4 or so to include the slightly oof 2nd pup. I don't think it's motion blurred, it's the shallow DoF that shows the black pup slightly blurry. I say that cos I tried sharpening the 2nd pup and he takes sharpening well (unlike a motion blurred subject).

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    BPN Viewer Charles Glatzer's Avatar
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    Jay,

    How you derived at the original exposure is another post. Av, Tv, Manual the end result is the same exposure.
    I would have moved slightly right if possible to get the pups on or closer to the same plane of focus. Laying flat on the ground or sitting on your bum with both elbows resting on knees would help you to better stabilize the lens. I would opt for more DOF as well, pushing the ISO to 800 would prove beneficial in this regard.

    Best,

    Chas

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    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Glatzer View Post
    Jay,

    How you derived at the original exposure is another post. Av, Tv, Manual the end result is the same exposure.
    I would have moved slightly right if possible to get the pups on or closer to the same plane of focus. Laying flat on the ground or sitting on your bum with both elbows resting on knees would help you to better stabilize the lens. I would opt for more DOF as well, pushing the ISO to 800 would prove beneficial in this regard.

    Best,

    Chas
    Exposure: Tv because they simply wouldn't freeze for me. 1 1/3 EC because ..... I don't recall :o

    Position: these guys were up on a bank about 2' above where I was in the water and we were about eye level. I was using a tripod.

    Yeah, not pushing the ISO and stopping down is the big mistake.

    Thanks,
    Cheers, Jay

    My Digital Art - "Nature Interpreted" - can now be view at http://www.luvntravlnphotography.com

    "Nature Interpreted" - Photography begins with your mind and eyes, and ends with an image representing your vision and your reality of the captured scene; photography exceeds the camera sensor's limitations. Capturing and Processing landscapes and seascapes allows me to express my vision and reality of Nature.

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    BPN Viewer Charles Glatzer's Avatar
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    Jay and others,

    In Manual priority you make a cognitive decision, first deciding which variable aperture or shutter speed is most important, setting that first into the camera before adjusting the other variable to render the correct exposure. The only difference in Av or Tv from Manual is that the camera automatically adjusts the variable you do not. Av you select the aperture of choice, with the camera selecting the other variable, shutter speed in this case. In Tv you select the shutter speed of choice, with the camera selecting the other variable, aperture in this case. Regardless of the priority used the resulting exposure should be one and the same, determined by the Meter Pattern in use not the Priority. Why would I choose an auto priority (Av/Tv) that is going to more than likely deviate exposure every time I move the camera position or zoom a lens, when the light falling on the subject is constant?


    Best,
    Chas

  22. #22
    Phil Colla
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    I was shooting alongside Jay on that evening just a short distance away. I can attest to the fact that it was really dark. I shot some images, laying prone on the ground with a 300 f/2.8, at 1/60 and many are not sharp **due to animal movement**. Jay, given the ISO you were using, you made the right call shooting wide open in order to get the shutter you needed. For an image like this it's better to have shallow DOF with frozen subject than deeper DOF and nothing sharp due to subject movement. This is a great shot given how little light we had. Phil

  23. #23
    Todd Frost
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    Agree with bumping the iso. Would like to have the pups clear of the seals in bg, but as you stated there was no where to move. It sounds like you made the best of the conditions presented. Overall well done. TFS
    Todd

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    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Glatzer View Post
    Jay and others,

    In Manual priority you make a cognitive decision, first deciding which variable aperture or shutter speed is most important, setting that first into the camera before adjusting the other variable to render the correct exposure. The only difference in Av or Tv from Manual is that the camera automatically adjusts the variable you do not. Av you select the aperture of choice, with the camera selecting the other variable, shutter speed in this case. In Tv you select the shutter speed of choice, with the camera selecting the other variable, aperture in this case. Regardless of the priority used the resulting exposure should be one and the same, determined by the Meter Pattern in use not the Priority. Why would I choose an auto priority (Av/Tv) that is going to more than likely deviate exposure every time I move the camera position or zoom a lens, when the light falling on the subject is constant?
    Best, Chas
    Chas, thanks for that explanation - totally agree.

    To respond toyour question: with the light falling - not constant - does that make a difference to the approach you take? While the interplay of the two pups is the overall subject matter, my goal was for the blonde pup to be the sharpest of the two so I locked in SS. I was slowly increasing EC - I could/should have also increased ISO. Thanks for continuing to be the great teacher that you are.
    Cheers, Jay

    My Digital Art - "Nature Interpreted" - can now be view at http://www.luvntravlnphotography.com

    "Nature Interpreted" - Photography begins with your mind and eyes, and ends with an image representing your vision and your reality of the captured scene; photography exceeds the camera sensor's limitations. Capturing and Processing landscapes and seascapes allows me to express my vision and reality of Nature.

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    BPN Viewer Charles Glatzer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Gould View Post
    Chas, thanks for that explanation - totally agree.

    To respond toyour question: with the light falling - not constant - does that make a difference to the approach you take? While the interplay of the two pups is the overall subject matter, my goal was for the blonde pup to be the sharpest of the two so I locked in SS. I was slowly increasing EC - I could/should have also increased ISO. Thanks for continuing to be the great teacher that you are.
    Jay,

    Regarding TV In slowly falling light as described above... for a choosen shutter-speed the camera will continue to open the aperture until it has reached its maximum f/stop of f/2.8, thereafter you will need to apply EC to make the image lighter as it gets darker. In Av applyig EC would not be necessary, at f/2.8 or smaller aperture the camera will slow the shutter speed as the light drops, until 30 sec is reached.

    In Manual you would slow the shutter speed yourself as the light drops.

    Best,

    Chas

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    Lifetime Member Jay Gould's Avatar
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    You are a peach to take so much time! You have confirmed for me that at least this time I did the right thing because I did not want the SS to drop. We can discuss this further when I see you next year! :D
    Cheers, Jay

    My Digital Art - "Nature Interpreted" - can now be view at http://www.luvntravlnphotography.com

    "Nature Interpreted" - Photography begins with your mind and eyes, and ends with an image representing your vision and your reality of the captured scene; photography exceeds the camera sensor's limitations. Capturing and Processing landscapes and seascapes allows me to express my vision and reality of Nature.

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