Goose ID help please

[Ilija Dukovski]

I posted this one in Avian, I think it is a Lesser Canada Goose
but Szimi pointed out it might be a Cackling Goose.
I would appreciate opinions, Canada or Cackling and why?

Thanks,

[Ilija Dukovski]

Here's another image of the same bird (I hope posting two images is OK in this case)

[Doug Brown]

I believe this is a Cackling Goose.

[Chris Sloan]

When and where was the photo taken? I'm not sold on this being a Cackling Goose; Cackling Goose typically shows a very stubby bill, as compared to this.

[Axel Hildebrandt]

The other day I went to an area with Canada Geese and their size range was quite surprising. According to a birder who is more experienced they were all Canada Geese. Isn't there also a difference between resident and migrating Canada Geese?

[James Prudente]

http://www.sibleyguides.com/2007/07/...-canada-goose/ This might be of help.

Jim

[Ilija Dukovski]

When and where was the photo taken? I'm not sold on this being a Cackling Goose; Cackling Goose typically shows a very stubby bill, as compared to this.

Oops, Sorry. The date and place are implied in the original post.
taken on 2/7/2010 in Waltham MA

[Ilija Dukovski]

The other day I went to an area with Canada Geese and their size range was quite surprising. According to a birder who is more experienced they were all Canada Geese. Isn't there also a difference between resident and migrating Canada Geese?

Yes, there are several sub-species, the resident one in NE is the huge "typical" one,
but I believe in winter we get many of the "lesser" sub-species that nest in boreal Canada.
I would really love to nail this one to a sub-species either of Canada or Cackling.

[Declan Troy]

Ilija, no guarantees but I'd put my money on a Canada. Some of the taxa are pretty hard if not impossible to distinguish (try separating parvipes and taverneri). In your case the most likely cackler would be Hutchinson's which if memory serves me right is generally darker (and smaller billed) than the individual you show.

[Chris Sloan]

I'm inclined to think this is one of the small Canada subspecies. Do you have a shot of the whole bird, preferably from a frontward angle?

[Ilija Dukovski]

Ilija, no guarantees but I'd put my money on a Canada. Some of the taxa are pretty hard if not impossible to distinguish (try separating parvipes and taverneri). In your case the most likely cackler would be Hutchinson's which if memory serves me right is generally darker (and smaller billed) than the individual you show.

Thanks Declan, my thinking was along the same lines
Here's a link to the original post:
http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...ad.php?t=56605

[Ilija Dukovski]

I'm inclined to think this is one of the small Canada subspecies. Do you have a shot of the whole bird, preferably from a frontward angle?

No, unfortunately I don't. Only head....

[Declan Troy]

Keep practicing as things are likely to get much more confusing than they are now. The ongoing genetic studies are showing a lot going on in these seemingly similar birds. Odds are before long you will think only having to distinguish two species as "the good old days.' Lucky for you much of the complications tend to be in the west.

[Ilija Dukovski]

I believe this is a Cackling Goose.

Thanks Doug, I'll try to get more opinions and see what others think.

[Myer Bornstein]

I would post to MassBird.org and ask them there have been cackling geese reported in Mass

[John T. Watson]

Suggest that if possible you try to take a photo showing not only the goose in question, but other geese and ducks around it (in same photo). Cackling is normally about the same size as a mallard. This helps in any ID as size is hard to determine without some other item in the photo of a known size.

John

[Ilija Dukovski]

I would post to MassBird.org and ask them there have been cackling geese reported in Mass

Last year we had several reports, this year I can't remember any Cackling report in MA.

[Ilija Dukovski]

Suggest that if possible you try to take a photo showing not only the goose in question, but other geese and ducks around it (in same photo). Cackling is normally about the same size as a mallard. This helps in any ID as size is hard to determine without some other item in the photo of a known size.

John

John,

The size of this bird was somewhat in between a typical atlantic race Canada goose and a Mallard.
You are right that Cacling is about the size of a Mallard but I believe that is correct only for the 'minima' sub-species.
The other two sub-species of Cackling overlap in size with Canada and that is the problem here.
It would be easy to distinguish a small Cackling from a large Canada sub-species.
There is however an overlap in size between the Cackling and Lesser Canada.

[Ilija Dukovski]

I posted the question on MASSBIRD and got only two answers, both Canada Goose.
It seems to me that at this point it is very difficult to get a positiove ID
of "problematic" Canada/Cackling midsized birds showing features of both.
I think this is a Canada but not sure about the sub-species.