Editing Quiz/Head Angle

[Ian McHenry]

As I am not familiar with this beautiful bird if I was travelling in North America I would prefer the extra detail in #2 for recognition purposes.
However if I could have either image in a frame on my mantelpiece number #1 would get the nod.
A real "Feel good" image.
Ian Mc

[David Thomasson]

I will not ask you about the flashing bill!

LOL ... sshhhh. It's top secret! (Animated gif!) :cool:

[Arthur Morris]

LOL ... sshhhh. It's top secret! (Animated gif!) :cool:

I will not tell a soul... But it is way cool.

[Dave Phillips]

I will not tell a soul... But it is way cool.

but I have had it pointed out to me by moderator twice that animations are not allowed.
No matter for critique/teaching visual or not.

animated gif is not an allowed file type I was told!!

[Ilija Dukovski]

Moving the shadow ...

Very cool. TFS.

[Arthur Morris]

but I have had it pointed out to me by moderator twice that animations are not allowed. No matter for critique/teaching visual or not. animated gif is not an allowed file type I was told!!

Dave, When I wrote "Way cool. I will not tell a soul" I was referring to the fact that David shared his secret, the fact that the moving bill was created with an animated GIF.

I was not suggesting that I would attempt to sanction something that was against the rules as I had no knowledge of the prohibition of animated GIFs.

I have written James Shadle who shall make the decision.

[Cindy Mead]

interesting thread.. for myself, I like #1 better. The sparrow doesn't appear to be looking directly at you in #2, rather at something in front of you, so 'eye contact' is kind of a mute point when comparing the two. I enjoy images that show birds just being birds without their total attention zeroed in on the photographer, but that's just a general personal preference and every scenario is different. What works in one setting may not work in another. Here you have a clean setting so my attention goes right to the details you captured in the sparrow.
I like the overall composition of #1- both are fine shots but that one feels 'stronger' to me, for lack of a better term.

[Rich Williams]

I like number 2 better. I like the angle better. Gives me more of a 3-D sense with the foreshortening. Number one looks more flat and stiff with the side view.

[arash_hazeghi]

I like # 1 better, I generally prefer less steep HA.

[Ed Grella]

I prefer #1 due to the better wing angle which shows more detail and it has a great beak/head profile in the shadow!

[Arthur Morris]

Only eight hours to go! Better play quick.

[Arthur Morris]

First off, thanks all for playing, and thanks to the rest who stopped by without getting in the game.

When I posted the two images, I knew that I much preferred the image in Pane 2 but could not put the reason or reasons into words. Several folks mentioned that the bird in #2 seemed more alive and more alert and I felt that too. And then while reading the comments above, it hit me, and it had everything to do with two of my favorite subjects, light angle and head angle. Notice that the shadow is to the left of the bird. Thus, the sun was slightly over my right shoulder. Note that the head in Pane #1 is perfectly square to the bird's body; with a subject angled slightly towards you, this is usually the preferred even perfect head angle.

But in this case, light angle trumps head angle. With the bird in Pane 1 square to my position the bird's head is actually turned slightly away from the light because I am working slightly off light angle. In Pane 2 the bird's head is turned back into the light as it should be. Yes, in Pane 1 the bill shows a bit better. And yes, the Pane 1 image might be the best field guide portrait. But to create the best image, the answer was simply to keep both images, add canvas to the Pane 2 image, and borrow the tail and some snow to create the optimized image.

And that's what I did to create the image posted here. (As for the virtual feet issue in Pane 2, that was never a problem for me as sparrows have short legs. Adding a bit of canvas below from the Pane 1 image would be a matter of personal preference.)

The top student award goes to Ilija who wrote the following in in Pane 9:

---

"The tail on #2 is very close to the edge, but still I'd definitely keep this one, and try to add space at RH edge(from #1, so technically speaking I'd need and keep both:);)). The placement of the bird in the frame in #2 IMO is better. I'm not sure how much the HA plays role here, but #2 has more "character" is more "interested" toward the camera than #1. I would try to do something about the strong shadow in both images, not sure what though."

His thoughts were pretty much identical to mine and he took it even one step further by being concerned about the shadow.

So now we are done, right?

No we are not. Please continue on to the next pane to see why.

[Arthur Morris]

And then along came David Thomasson who taught us how to move the shadow and cleaned up the disturbed snow in the background to boot. As soon as I hear from David as to what tools he used to do the background clean-up I will work on an improved version.

If you still feel that the image in Pane #1 is the stronger one, I am fine with that. No need to argue your point though :)

[David Thomasson]

And then along came David Thomasson who taught us how to move the shadow and cleaned up the disturbed snow in the background to boot. As soon as I hear from David as to what tools he used to do the background clean-up I will work on an improved version.

I used mostly the healing brush, a few spots with the clone tool. Either way, it's important to sample from areas that are on the same "latitude" as your target -- the same distance from the lens. That way, you're sampling from a place that has the same amount of blur (or clarity) as the target area. When healing or cloning, it's a good idea to work on blank layers.

[Ilija Dukovski]

The top student award goes to Ilija who wrote the following in in Pane 9:

Thank you Artie, I like the idea of the test, it really made me think...

David's work is great first and foremost due to its simplicity.
It goes in the category "How come I didn't think of that".:)

Cheers,

[Arthur Morris]

I used mostly the healing brush, a few spots with the clone tool. Either way, it's important to sample from areas that are on the same "latitude" as your target -- the same distance from the lens. That way, you're sampling from a place that has the same amount of blur (or clarity) as the target area. When healing or cloning, it's a good idea to work on blank layers.

Thanks again for the great lessons. Do you use the Healing Brush or the Spot Healing Brush? I often use the latter for dust spotting but have not used the former since CS-2.

[David Thomasson]

Thanks again for the great lessons. Do you use the Healing Brush or the Spot Healing Brush? I often use the latter for dust spotting but have not used the former since CS-2.

The healing brush. I only use the spot healer if there is plenty of uniform real estate around the spot to be removed. The spot healer has a mind of its own about sampling; with the healing brush, you get more precise control of sampling. So I tend to prefer that one.

[paul leverington]

Hey Artie--Ya didn't say we could do things to either of the shots as to favor one over the other. I took the choice to be based solely on what was posted "as is". No problem of course cause the real value was in the journey of lesson lane that we all went down--but had I known we could add canvas and such--I still would picked no.1!!;):D Oh well--great fun!!

Paul

[Arthur Morris]

Hey Artie--Ya didn't say we could do things to either of the shots as to favor one over the other. I took the choice to be based solely on what was posted "as is". No problem of course cause the real value was in the journey of lesson lane that we all went down--but had I known we could add canvas and such--I still would picked no.1!!;):D Oh well--great fun!! Paul

Hey Paul, As a 23-year veteran teacher I learned that misleading the students is not only fair play but encourages them to think on a higher level (as Ilija did first and several others did after him). :)

The question posed was: "Which one would you keep, and why?

And the answer was "Keep both!"

I will try to come up with a few more of these.

Thanks again to all who played.

ps: No rules against adding canvas here!

[Arthur Morris]

I used mostly the healing brush, a few spots with the clone tool. Either way, it's important to sample from areas that are on the same "latitude" as your target -- the same distance from the lens. That way, you're sampling from a place that has the same amount of blur (or clarity) as the target area. When healing or cloning, it's a good idea to work on blank layers.

Hey David, I gotta say, you are too good. I tried doing the snow repair on the deer tracks and could not do anywhere as well as you did. I could not find source material on the same level....

And when I attempted to move the shadow (as you did in Pane 49), I was able to do it but not to preserve the fine feathers of the neck, so I will settle for my version in Pane 62 :)

But I did learn a bunch from you and the rest of the gang as well so thanks again to all.

[Myer Bornstein]

If I had to choose, I would choose #2 but both are keepers depends on usage

[Jim Neiger]

I prefer #1 for several reasons.
1. I like the body angle better. You can see more of the bird's plumage.
2. I like the crop a little better because there is more room for the tail and feet.
3. I like the shadow of the bird's head better because it more clearly shows the outlines of the bird.
4. Because the bird is angled more to the focal plane the focus on the tail is better.
5. I prefer the head angle.

I posted the above without reading thru the thread and without reading Artie's last post. I still like #1 for the reasons above.