Misrepresentation in Photo Contest

[John Hawkins]

I saw Max at Ding Darling last week. I didn't get a chance to introduce myself. At the time I wasn't quite sure if it was him or not. Someone else confirmed it tho. He has a display of his photos on display in their visitors center.

[Mike Tracy]

This has really taken on a life of it's own. I find it curious that here on BPN members seem to take a much more personal interest based on the amount of posts compared to a similar thread on NSN.

I feel that the parties that have weighed in to date have rightfully so expressed their disappointment, shock and a myriad of other emotions. To keep emphasizing your previous stated position is just beating a dead horse and serves no constructive purpose. I have also noticed what some might take as mud slinging which is not conducive to build a sense of community here and will only fracture the "relationships " we have built amongst ourselves.

Some very good points have been made not just in regards to Maxis but our approach to editing and disclosure.

I wish this was my site as this would be the last word and the thread would be locked.

[Fabs Forns]

I wish this was my site as this would be the last word and the thread would be locked.

So yours would be the last word?

[Mike Tracy]

So yours would be the last word?

No, but someone needs to have it and if you want to I would be obliged.

[john crookes]

5-Maxis is currently offering to do Quick Mask slide shows for local camera clubs. Maxis learned to use Quick Masks either from Robert O'Toole or from Robert's APTATS I CD. As far as I know, Robert was the first to utilize Quick Masks for nature photography and has generously shared his knowledge. For Maxis to offer a slide program based solely on the techniques developed and taught by another professional is at best disrespectful


Are you saying that no one can teach this technique other than Robert If you use that logic then none of us can teach anything only the person that invented it

in that case Robert would not be able to teach either

None of us would be able to

Unrealistic and that post seamed to be very vengefull to me Sorry Artie but I call them as I see them

I do not Believe Robert invented the quick mask as it has resided in photodshop for some time he just showed it to a new audience as Maxis is doing

That remark has nothing to do with this forum and only serves as a vengefull outlet on your part

[Fabs Forns]

No, but someone needs to have it and if you want to I would be obliged.

I really don't see the need to stop a discussion because it touches a personal friend of yours.

[Mike Tracy]

I really don't see the need to stop a discussion because it touches a personal friend of yours.

I don't consider Maxis anymore of a personal friend whom I shot with twice this spring then I do one of BPNS own publishers Robert Amoruso whom I had on my boat both times Maxis was with me.

Your logic is flawed.

[Fabs Forns]

I don't consider Maxis anymore of a personal friend whom I shot with twice this spring then I do one of BPNS own publishers Robert Amoruso whom I had on my boat both times Maxis was with me.

Your logic is flawed.

Coincidence?

[Mike Tracy]

Coincidence?

You lost me.

If I recall I extended a invitation to you to come out to shoot Kites with me. If you had would that make us friends, no, it would have been a professional arrangement ?

[Ramon M. Casares]

I understand that people are looking for answers, but raising the questions here when he cannot respond seems mean spirited to me.

I agree Jeff and that is why mi opinion about this matter was posted in Naturescapes.
And about Maxis responding or not there, I actually believe that he doesn't owe any of us any explanation, and he doesn't need to be forgiven by us... what are we better in anyway? If something he will have to explain himself with the contest coordinators.. as much, but us asking for answers and explanations and discussing if he will be ever forgiven is just too much to me. I think everybody is over reacting and making a bigger issue that what it sohld've been as this things probably happen in every contest there is out there.

Best wishes to all. :)

[Raul Quinones]

I agree with everything that Fabs stated above (Pane #83) and with most everything that James Shadle said above in Pane #78. Everything but this In part):

Raul said: I think is that Maxis was (still into my eyes) one of the best new generation photographers.

My Opinion: Is that the case, or is he one of the best new generation Photoshop editors? If someone adds or subtracts elements in a contests where it is against the rules, can you trust their other images to be legitimate? Could unchecked ambition or desire for recognition motivate someone to take short cuts and make themselves seem like a better photographer than they are?

As I stated above I do believe that Maxis is a pretty darned good photographer. And Ansel Adams was a pretty good image editor. And I am pretty good with Photoshop. And I am a firm believer in JIJO; junk in = junk out. James pretty much presents his images as they looked in the viewfinder. That is his call and I respect that. I will spend 30 minutes at times improving a single image. I am fine with that. I let folks know what I do. Whose approach is better? James' approach for James, mine for me.

My belief is that I am simply using the latest technology to create images that make me and others happy and images that sell.

As we all know by now James and I do agree that entering one or more images that are in violation of the contest rules and then refusing to submit the RAW files might not have been the best plan for getting ahead.

Respectfully.

Not sure I follow your comments... after all English is my second Language.
I think we agree that using manipulated pictures for a contest was wrong,
We both agree that Maxis is a pretty good photographer
We agree that he is also good in PS....

Now this when I got lost "can you trust their other images to be legitimate?"
If the images are not part of a contest, there should not be trust issues, unless the images are use for editorial purposes, if the are artistic representation image editing should be ok....

Could unchecked ambition or desire for recognition motivate someone to take short cuts and make themselves seem like a better photographer than they are?
This goes back to using manipulated images for a photo contest is wrong.


Now that we have dissected all my post, can somebody comment on the following comment by one of the moderators: " I believe in integrity.....all the other stuff is BS!"
Love, Knowledge, compassion, ... All this and more is just BS?

Thanks
Raul

[john crookes]

one of the opening statements in avian


For posting and critiquing avian images. Images may included minor hand of man elements. If your subject is captive, please disclose that fact.
Moderators: Fabs Forns , Arthur Morris , Juan Aragonés , Tony Whitehead , Doug Brown , Axel Hildebrandt , Daniel Cadieux , Randy Stout

Why do we ask if a subject is captive please inform but if a image is manuipulated not to inform when I asked this question a long time ago the owners and moderators replyed that they would not ask or post such a question to the viewers

Again I ask why not post it as a guideline to inform others when you have manipulated a photo

Again not a rule just a guideline

[Arthur Morris]

one of the opening statements in avian


For posting and critiquing avian images. Images may included minor hand of man elements. If your subject is captive, please disclose that fact.
Moderators: Fabs Forns , Arthur Morris , Juan Aragonés , Tony Whitehead , Doug Brown , Axel Hildebrandt , Daniel Cadieux , Randy Stout

Why do we ask if a subject is captive please inform but if a image is manuipulated not to inform when I asked this question a long time ago the owners and moderators replyed that they would not ask or post such a question to the viewers

Again I ask why not post it as a guideline to inform others when you have manipulated a photo

Again not a rule just a guideline

John, Thanks. You have made a valid point above. I shall discuss it with the team and hope to have something in place soon.

[Arthur Morris]

Hi Raul,

re:

Now this when I got lost "can you trust their other images to be legitimate?"

If the images are not part of a contest, there should not be trust issues, unless the images are use for editorial purposes, if the are artistic representation image editing should be ok....

I agree. My point would be that if someone misrepresents an image in a contest can they be trusted at all? It's the old once a cheater always a cheater syndrome.

Could unchecked ambition or desire for recognition motivate someone to take short cuts and make themselves seem like a better photographer than they are?

This goes back to using manipulated images for a photo contest is wrong.

Yes, but also to the other points that I raised in my post in Pane #93 above.

Now that we have dissected all my post, can somebody comment on the following comment by one of the moderators: " I believe in integrity.....all the other stuff is BS!"
Love, Knowledge, compassion, ... All this and more is just BS?


Without putting words in Roman's mouth I believe that he was saying that once you have lost your integrity you may have lost everything. If someone's wife loves them dearly, is brilliant, and is compassionate yet they know them to be a liar and a cheat I am thinking that the love, knowledge, and compassion would not count for much.

Would you not agree?

[Arthur Morris]

are we better in anyway?

Most of us are better in one way: we do not cheat in contests that we enter. In addition, as I stated clearly in Pane #93 above, this is just one example of Maxis' recent actions that have done anything but help his career. A clear pattern is evident.

Maxis is of course free to do what he wishes but in this industry what goes around usually comes around.

I do hope that Maxis sees the light and works hard to improve both his reputation and his standing in the world of nature photography. Somebody on NSN wrote that this would all be forgotten in a week or two.

Perhaps in a decade or two might be more accurate.

[Arthur Morris]

5-Maxis is currently offering to do Quick Mask slide shows for local camera clubs. Maxis learned to use Quick Masks either from Robert O'Toole or from Robert's APTATS I CD. As far as I know, Robert was the first to utilize Quick Masks for nature photography and has generously shared his knowledge. For Maxis to offer a slide program based solely on the techniques developed and taught by another professional is at best disrespectful


Are you saying that no one can teach this technique other than Robert If you use that logic then none of us can teach anything only the person that invented it

in that case Robert would not be able to teach either

None of us would be able to

Unrealistic and that post seamed to be very vengefull to me Sorry Artie but I call them as I see them

I do not Believe Robert invented the quick mask as it has resided in photodshop for some time he just showed it to a new audience as Maxis is doing

That remark has nothing to do with this forum and only serves as a vengefull outlet on your part

I have no problem with your voicing your opinion here John but your reasoning is way off base. Maxis' action with regards to Quick Masking show a total lack of respect for the profession. I teach Quick Masking techniques and even include the basics of QMing in Digital Basics. In every case Robert's name is mentioned. Often.

When one professional has developed and taught a community a given technique, it is common practice that other professionals do not develop an entire program based on that technique. Mention it with credit to the person who came up with the idea? Sure. Cover the basics while crediting that person? Sure. But developing a whole program without ever mentioning the person's name. Not cool.

My understanding is that Maxis has been giving away lots of Robert's QMing techniques on another site and that he has never once mentioned Robert's name. Not cool. His actions show a total lack of respect for Robert and for all photographic educators. There are certain lines that folks with integrity simply do not cross. It seems that Maxis is willing to cross any line in order to advance his career. Quite sad.

And as I have been saying repeatedly, the pattern is quite evident to those who open their eyes.