7D or used 1D MkIII ???

[Bruce Enns]

With the announcement of the Mk IV and the thus far rave reviews of it, I am expecting to see a lot of Mk III's coming on to the used market.

My question is addressed primarily to people who have both 7D's and Mk III's...but of course anyone else with an opinion (I know there are a few of you out there:)) is also welcome to join in.

I am currently a 40/50D user and am (of course!) thinking of my next upgrade. My question is (finally!), do I go for a 7D or a used Mk III for the addtional $500 or $600? This is assuming of course the Mk III would be in great condition with all available fixes etc applied?

My main interests are birds of all kinds, perched, wading, flying etc., and other wildlife. I would likely be keeping the 50D for a backup / second camera. I typically work with two bodies, one with my 100-400 Canon L zoom, and the other with my Canon 500 f/4.

So which is it? Used Mk III or new 7D?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer!

Bruce

[Ákos Lumnitzer]

For me I'd buy the 1D MkIII for its AF ability at f/8 alone. No brainer for my personal needs. :) Just watch how many MkIIIs will be out soon, they are already starting to be sold off.
I love people who always want the latest and greatest. :D

[Karl Egressy]

I asked the same question (I included Mark IV as an option but dropped it now.) on naturescapes.net.
I received lot of answers. One fact came out; Mark III had problems with focusing as you know well.
Buying a used one is a risky business. I read one quy's comment; "My Mark III was sent to Canon five times. Never worked well. Now it is floating somewhere out on the used market."
So I decided to either buy a new 7D or a new Mark III if the price of it will be lowered.
Currently I'm listening to others who have already bought and tested the 7D.
Mixed results so far.
Good luck.
Karl Egressy, a bird photographer
with Canon 40D Canon 300 f2.8 L IS and 500 f4.0 L IS

[Carl Gandolfo]

...
Currently I'm listening to others who have already bought and tested the 7D.
Mixed results so far.

Don't chalk up most of these "mixed results" as a result of a faulty product....one also needs to take into account user error. It does take a while to get used to new technology and fine tuning settings to your liking/shooting style.

I love how people like to bash their new gear even though they have not taken the time to read the manual and learn how to use it. Not saying this is the case with everyone/you but I'd put money down that it is more likely the majority.

I had similar experiences with a Canon 500 f/4 IS, until I realized that this lens required I learn a whole different shooting technique.

[Karl Egressy]

You know Carl if you complain people listen. If you are happy with your stuff, people hate you. I take into account of this phenomenon as well.
I trusted friend of mine who is an excellent bird shooter with 30 years experience, tested one for BIF.
He was happy with the 7D but he does not own one yet.

[Carl Gandolfo]

You know Carl if you complain people listen. If you are happy with your stuff, people hate you. I take into account of this phenomenon as well.
I trusted friend of mine who is an excellent bird shooter with 30 years experience, tested one for BIF.
He was happy with the 7D but he does not own one yet.

haha....I can see that!! But he who complains too much, also becomes silent after a while (if you know what I mean?) :D

[Doug Brown]

You can't beat the high-ISO noise capabilities of the Mark III. But if you don't often find yourself at ISO 800 or higher, the 7D has a compelling feature set, great image quality, and will save you $600 or $700.

[Chris Brennan]

I am a long time xxD body owner, having had a 10D, 20D, 30D and now 40D. But an opportunity presented itself last spring and I was able to pickup a refurbished 1D Mk3. Although the 40D has been "demoted" to second body use, I find I miss having the 1.6x crop factor on both bodies. I too use a 100-400 and a 500/f4 and my primary uses are flying objects: military jets and raptors. While I adore the 10fps capability of the Mk3, I'm intrigued by the 7D because it's 8 fps would more than likely be adequate; it gives me a 1.6 crop factor on both bodies, and it's lighter. But I never buy anything before it's been thoroughly analyzed and tested by both professionals and users so I'll be watching for the next few months as it makes its way through the photographic community. And I know that I'll probably take a bath on selling the Mk3, if I choose to go that route, which pains me...

[Jia Liu]

For me I'd buy the 1D MkIII for its AF ability at f/8 alone. No brainer for my personal needs. :) Just watch how many MkIIIs will be out soon, they are already starting to be sold off.
I love people who always want the latest and greatest. :D

With sucn high pixel density of 7D, you don't need f/8 AF ability ;)

[Bruce Enns]

I do actually shoot a fair bit at ISO 800 and being able to go higher relatively noise free would be an advantage. A better, faster, focus system is really what I crave most.

Doug, what is your opinion of the 7D versus MkIII focus system? (assuming of course that we are talking about a later model MkIII, with the newer parts). Which is a better BIF camera?

Thanks everyone...I'll have a look at the naturescapes site as well.

Bruce

[Karl Egressy]

Funny how things work sometime.
Someone asked me if I wanted to buy his slightly used 1D MIII about an hour ago and I said, yes.
I will buy the 7D in a year time and sell the 40D.
I hope I made the right decision.

[arash_hazeghi]

Having tested two 7Ds extensively in the field (the first one was returned the second one now has firmware 1.0.9 loaded) IMO it is a good camera and overall better than XXDs, as Jia pointed out it eliminates the need for a TC given its high pixel density, in most cases a naked 400mm is all you need and more than enough. It is also light has a nice LCD and many new features not found on the MKIII which is old technology by today's standard.
I would argue that even for ISOs up to 1600 (in good light) 7D will win due to its reach, remember that MKIII will only have 6.6 Mpixels when cropped down to 1.6X FOV. However I have to give you my honest opinion about AF and that it is not up in par with professional cameras, in many cases and in my experience it cannot grab BIF at peak of the action moment, I have missed quite a few opportunities in the field with this camera that I would have not with my other gear. This is my opinion and it might be that my shooting conditions are more demanding, I do not photograph flying sea gulls, crows or ducks against sky or water background, most of my experience is with raptors and I am interested in flight and predatory shots. I would suggest that you rent a 7D for a few days and try it out in your shooting conditions and see if it works for you, if you find its AF adequate for your needs, then it is a clear choice over the gamble of a used MKIII.

Here is one example from 7D and 400mm at ISO 800 from this morning, when in focus, it produces excellent photos.


EOS 7D + 400 f/5.6L f/7.1 1/2000 sec ISO 800
Note that this image has absolutely no noise reduction applied to it.

[Bruce Enns]

Thanks Arash, I did read your other posts of your field trials with the 7D and appreciate your efforts to communicate your results to the members here...even in the face of some not wanting to believe that maybe the new focus system wasn't quite as good as Canon was telling everyone it was. Thanks for your honest opinion about the AF. I think I've decided that I will wait for a bit and work more on my technique with my current bodies.

The 7D certainly is capable of making beautiful, sharp, low-noise images as you've shown here.

Thanks again.

Cheers!
Bruce

[christopher galeski]

very nice shot Arash,good selling point for the 7d,but the 400mm f5.6 is a great lens in the right lighting.thanks.

[Bill McCrystyn]

Who me??? I am just eagerly reading the reports on the AF, by the experts. :D NO comment.

[Alfred Forns]

Hi Bruce I will be getting a Mk 1V but keeping a Mk3 as a second camera rather than getting a 7D !!

I like the feel and features of the ID body and my Mk3 has had no problems.

[Bill McCrystyn]

Al, does the new MKIV have a different AF system than the 7D. From what I read it appears to. It uses a 45 point system instead of 21, right?

[Steven R. Haning]

I currently have the 1D MK IIn... I use to have the Canon 20D & 30D and now I will never return to a consumer issued camera due to slow focus and the overbearing issues involved with the megapixel race. My background goes to years of digital camera sales and repair service. The shutter life of 300,000+ images and the inexpensive cost to replace a shutter ($150 parts/$225 Labor) should it fail is far superior to the downfall of noisy lackluster images. I picked up my 1DmkIIn for $1200.00 about a year ago, and other than replacing the battery and misc items for sensor cleanings it has worked flawlessly. My original shutter count was 76,000 and I am at 166,121 which is an enormous amount of work "I think" with very little maintenance required. My vote is for any digital camera at the pro level... The focus is quick and sharp and the images are incredible (most issues with the 1D III have been remedied with firmware updates. Also a good insurance plan will go a long way... should anything go wrong that is fatal to my unit it will be replaced with the newest version to date for about $500 a year. It is called dedicated photographer’s insurance. Good Luck in your search!

www.srhphotodesign.zenfolio.com

[Bob Walker]

Having tested two 7Ds extensively in the field (the first one was returned the second one now has firmware 1.0.9 loaded) IMO it is a good camera and overall better than XXDs, as Jia pointed out it eliminates the need for a TC given its high pixel density, in most cases a naked 400mm is all you need and more than enough. It is also light has a nice LCD and many new features not found on the MKIII which is old technology by today's standard.
I would argue that even for ISOs up to 1600 (in good light) 7D will win due to its reach, remember that MKIII will only have 6.6 Mpixels when cropped down to 1.6X FOV. However I have to give you my honest opinion about AF and that it is not up in par with professional cameras, in many cases and in my experience it cannot grab BIF at peak of the action moment, I have missed quite a few opportunities in the field with this camera that I would have not with my other gear. This is my opinion and it might be that my shooting conditions are more demanding, I do not photograph flying sea gulls, crows or ducks against sky or water background, most of my experience is with raptors and I am interested in flight and predatory shots. I would suggest that you rent a 7D for a few days and try it out in your shooting conditions and see if it works for you, if you find its AF adequate for your needs, then it is a clear choice over the gamble of a used MKIII.

Here is one example from 7D and 400mm at ISO 800 from this morning, when in focus, it produces excellent photos.


EOS 7D + 400 f/5.6L f/7.1 1/2000 sec ISO 800
Note that this image has absolutely no noise reduction applied to it.

Hello Arash,
I enjoyed viewing your image and reading your comments. I too enjoy photographing birds of prey (www.pbase.com/moosebob) as well as other subjects. I also have just purchased a 7D and have had it for two weeks.
Although I haven't spent as much time in the field as I would have liked to I am finding there is quite a learning curve to this camera body as opposed to my D1 Mark II or the 40D which I had sold. A trusted friend of mine who also owns a 7D commented that inffraction shows up in images shot above f/16 and this is the case with most cameras having high MP count I am told. The comments keep coming from others who have the camera body as well. I agree with the one fellow in this forum that stated we need to learn our cameras well and with all the technology built into them that can be a challenge for some. Did you know that if you go into Custom Function II & #3 Highlight Tone Priority and disable it you can achieve an ISO of 100 with your 7D? Again what I'm trying to say here is that we really need to work with our new camera bodies. Also don't expect to get the same out of $1,700.00 camera body you would in a $5,000.00 camera body it just isn't going to happen with either Nikon or Canon. One of the things with digital it can get quite expensive and can discourage many from getting into it. Amen.
Again thank you for sharing your beautiful image and comments with us.

Sincerely yours,
Bob Walker