Canon EOS 7D vs Nikon D300 AF tracking

[Clem Nichols]

I recently joined this forum in an effort to find unbiased comparisons of the autofocus tracking ability of the 7D and the D300. In all honesty I am not (yet, at least), a BIF photographer, but am looking for an upgrade to my Pentax K10D which will allow me to get some decent shots of my grandkids playing basketball and volley ball in a relatively poorly lit high school gym. I was hopeful that the new Pentax K-7 would fill the bill, but neither its high ISO performance nor its AF-C is on a level with either of the above cameras, and so my choice boils down to one of them. IQ wise and high ISO wise the Nikon and the Canon seem to be comparable, and as I have no money invested in lenses for either system, my choice boils down to the autofocus tracking ability of the two cameras. I realize that it would be difficult, if not impossible, to devise an entirely objective way of comparing them, but was hopeful that someone in this group might have used both and at least come to an unbiased ( ie they're not a flaming fanboy for either camp) subjective opinion. Anyone? Thanks in advance.

CN

[William Malacarne]

playing basketball and volley ball in a relatively poorly lit high school gym

This would lead me to look at lenses. Poor light will usually require a fast lens such as f/2.8. Start with checking on prices of these with some type of image stabilization, they are not cheap.

Bill

[Clem Nichols]

Bill:

Thanks for your response. I've used a 50mm f/1.4 and an f/2.8 70-200 on the K10D without very satisfactory results. ISO 800 is poor, and ISO 1600 with the K10 is totally unacceptable except possibly for a 4 x 6 print. Moreover, the AF-C ability of even the new K-7 Pentax is known to be below that of the Canikons. I doubt that IS is going to be much of a factor if shooting at 1/350 second or faster with a lens in the 50-150mm range.

CN

[Michael Bertelsen]

Hello Clem,

I have the K10D and the D300. Both degrade quickly above 400 ISO.
Shutter speed is much faster on the D300.
I would look at the D700 if you want better ISO performance.
I still like the colors better with my K10D.
But for BIF the K10D would not be my choice.
I'm saving for a D700.

Good Luck,

Michael Bertelsen
www.algonquinparkphototours.com

[Clem Nichols]

Thanks, Mike:

I realize a full-frame camera is the ideal vehicle for shooting in low-light conditions, but there's a limit to how much I feel I can justify spending on what is, for me, just a hobby. For APS-C sized sensors, the D300/300S and the 7D are apparently the best available in the low-light category, or at least that's my understanding, and both can give acceptable results at ISO 1600. Coupled with a fast lens I should be able to shoot at 1/500 second (based on my experience last season with the K10D), and running the images through Noiseware Pro should give me decent 8 x 10's anyway. So the bottom line boils down to AF continuous tracking ability of the two cameras. Granted, I can prefocus on a particular area, but this isn't always successful when shooting with a large aperture and shallow DOF, and leaves one handicapped when the action occurs elsewhere on the court. Until the advent of the EOS 7D, the D300's AF system has been generally accepted as the gold standard in APS-C cameras. Certainly after two years it is a known quantity, whereas the 7D's "new and improved" system is still a bit of a pig-in-a-poke. If the 7D's AF-C (or AI servo) is on a par with the D300's AF, then I'd prefer the Canon because of being able to crop it further. If the D300/300S is still undoubtably the best at locking on and tracking a moving object, then the Nikon would be my choice. I'm anxiously seeking additional information, because the basketball season is set to begin next week, the money's on hand, and I've got upgrading fever.

CN

[Desmond Chan]

Shutter speed is much faster on the D300.

You mean the, say, 1/500sec on the D300 is shorter than the 1/500s on the K10D??

[Desmond Chan]

If the 7D's AF-C (or AI servo) is on a par with the D300's AF, then I'd prefer the Canon because of being able to crop it further. If the D300/300S is still undoubtably the best at locking on and tracking a moving object, then the Nikon would be my choice. I'm anxiously seeking additional information, because the basketball season is set to begin next week, the money's on hand, and I've got upgrading fever.

CN

Just get the 7D. For one, the noise control seems to be better.

IMO, people have been shooting sports with cameras older than the 7D and the D300 and they were doing fine. I'm confidence that either the 7D or the D300 will do a good job for you.

[Don Saunders]

Clem,

I have the new 7D with the BG-E7 battery grip. I have upgraded from the 50D because of the greatly improved AF, low noise at high ISOs, and higher frame rates of 8 fps.

I have posted my high ISO with low noise test shots here at : http://birdphotographers.net/forums/...ad.php?t=47452

Please Note: Adobe Camera Raw ignores any in-camera noise reduction and applies its own NR to RAW files. This would be the case in both in CS4 and LR2. Canon DPP software largely ignores any in-camera noise reduction and applies its own NR to RAW files. All of my posts were using RAW files and no ACR NR. I was amazed by the lack of noise in high ISOs (3200) that I would never even consider using in the past. Think of how good the images will be with a little NR.

I have not had an opportunity to photograph BIF with my 7D yet. I have seen outstanding results posted by some other photographers.

The 7D is the first Canon body, outside the 1D series professional bodies, to have a dedicated processor to handle the focusing calculations the 19 AF sensors. This processor is separate from the Dual DIGIC 4 processors for image processing. Compared to my 50D, which has 15 MP, one DIGIC 4 processor (to handle both image processing and AF), and 6.3 FPS, the 7D has 20% more pixels (18 MP) and is 27% faster (8 fps).

If you are interested in BIF, Canon has an incredible and affordable lens - the 400mm f/5.6 L lens. It is tack sharp and very fast AF and light weight. It sells for around $1,000. They also have 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/2.8, 500mm f/4, 600mm f/4, and 800mm 5.6 long lenses with IS. To my knowledge, Canon is the only company to offer the 400mm f/5.6. Artie used this lens for many years as his BIF lens. He now uses the 400mm DO lens.

Certainly I have an opinion since I chose to switch from Nikon, in 2001, and go to Canon. I also worked in a large, well stocked camera store (Penn Camera in Washington, DC area) from 2004-2006. I sold lots of Canon and Nikon. Both are good companies with outstanding products. I have not used a D300, but I have heard good things about it.

While working at Penn Camera, I was the person that others turned to when a customer brought in a new camera and complained of having problems. I am good at diagnosing problems and solving them. At least 95% of all complaints were solved by changing "wrong" settings made by the customer and having them actually read the instruction manual. I bring this up because I have seen people post "bad" images and blame the poor results on the camera and then badmouth the camera. I sincerely doubt they knew how to optimize the camera. This is true of any camera from any manufacturer. The 7D instruction manual is 276 pages. And there is an 8-page white paper, on Canon's web site, explaining the new 7D AF system. These wonderful cameras offer you many options and choices to help you produce the best photos possible. You can actually download the Canon 7D instruction manual as a PDF and read it in advance. I pull it up on the computer screen and have the camera in my hands to go over the controls until I understand them completely. Plus, you don't have to weight down a little manual in order to read it. Here is the 7D manual link:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...nloadDetailAct

I have tried to provide you with factual information in a positive way. I hope this helps you in making your decision.

[Clem Nichols]

You mean the, say, 1/500sec on the D300 is shorter than the 1/500s on the K10D??

Hardly. But with the K10D's ISO limited to no more than 800, the fastest shutter speed I can attain with the K10D is about 1/350 second, and that doesn't always stop the motion.:)

[Clem Nichols]

Don:

Many thanks for your informative reply. I had seen your pictures a couple of days ago, but being a new member of this forum did not immediately associate your name with them. The high ISO performance of the 7D really blows me away. I had mentioned in my earlier post about using it at ISO 1600, but your images and ones I downloaded from Imaging Resource lead me to believe that 3200 is quite usable and even ISO 6400 can be used if well exposed. The sensible thing for me to do, I suppose, would be to wait for published tests comparing the two, but waiting gets more difficult each day, particularly when B&H shows them both in stock.

CN

[William Malacarne]

Clem

You can probably rent on to try for a few days.

Bill

[Carl Gandolfo]

Don,

Do you have a link to Canon's 8-page white paper on the 7D? I've been looking and cannot find it on their site.

Thanks,
Carl

[Don Saunders]

Carl,

It was well hidden in the Digital Learning Center. When it prints, it is 8 pages.

http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/control...articleID=3049

Enjoy!

[Don Saunders]

Clem and Carl,

Greg Schneider has begun a thorough, well thought out review of the 7D on his blog:

http://birdphotographers.net/forums/...ad.php?t=48110

Check out some of this photos! Very nice!

[James Shadle]

Just get the 7D. For one, the noise control seems to be better.

IMO, people have been shooting sports with cameras older than the 7D and the D300 and they were doing fine. I'm confidence that either the 7D or the D300 will do a good job for you.

Heck, I have images of BIF with a D100 and a 80-400VR:).

The 7D AF reminded me of the D200's AF sensor configuration with D300 speed.

The 7D in a clear sky was deadly fast and accurate. Acquiring focus in a busy background with Auto AF was not so great. Then again neither is the D300's

I thought the 7D was faster, with the nod in tracking accuracy going to the D300.
IMO the D300 tracking is slightly superior because of the AF options.

The D300 is awesome tracking BIF against busy backgrounds(as long as the bird is not the same color as the background);). I use 51 point 3D Dynamic with center AF sensor start up for busy backgrounds and sky.

Over water I use the 9 or 21 point Dynamic option disabling the color tracking.
With large birds I will just use the center sensor. That way I can know it is on my subjects head/face.

[Clem Nichols]

Clem and Carl,

Greg Schneider has begun a thorough, well thought out review of the 7D on his blog:

http://birdphotographers.net/forums/...ad.php?t=48110

Check out some of this photos! Very nice!

Good information, Don. Thanks very much.

CN