Shorebird ID Quiz #2

[Arthur Morris]

Please take a crack at aging and identifying each of the three birds in this photograph. Image created at Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge, Queens, NY on 29 SEPT 09.

[Dave Brown]

Hey,

I'll let others have a go at this.I just wanted to say that I think this is a fantasic idea Artie.A great learning experience for everyone.

Dave Brown

[arash_hazeghi]

Lemmie guess, godwit, willet and lesser yellowlegs or spotted sandpiper?

[Arthur Morris]

Hey, I'll let others have a go at this.I just wanted to say that I think this is a fantasic idea Artie.A great learning experience for everyone. Dave Brown

Hey Dave, Thanks for your kind words. Be sure to come back in a day or two and take a crack at it. It is not quite as easy as it looks :)

[Arthur Morris]

Lemmie guess, godwit, willet and lesser yellowlegs or spotted sandpiper?

Let me know for each bird from back to front; thanks.

Clue: look at the color of the legs of the middle bird, and the size and length of the bill.

Reminder: Spotted Sandpiper never has white spots on black....

[arash_hazeghi]

Back to front Godwit, greater yellowlegs, and the third don't know :D

[Arthur Morris]

Back to front Godwit, greater yellowlegs, and the third don't know :D

You are correct on the bird in the middle; does that bird appear to have a splotchy(adult) pattern or an even, regular pattern (juvenile)?

Compare the size of the body of the bird in the back with the middle bird. Same? Larger? Smaller?

[Phil Battley]

Well I'll stop now before I even start - I was going to compliment you for having snuck a Spotted Redshank into the frame as the middle bird. With that fine bill, are you saying it's a yellowlegs? It has been 18 years since I've seen one, mind you...

Cheers, Phil

[Arthur Morris]

The middle bird is indeed a Greater Yellowlegs. Can anyone age it? (It should be easy to age....)

[arash_hazeghi]

maybe the larger bird is an adult greater and the middle one a juvi, the last one lesser yellowlegs (white spots)?

[Arthur Morris]

maybe the larger bird is an adult greater and the middle one a juvi, the last one lesser yellowlegs (white spots)?

Re-read what I said in Pane #7 and let me know why you think the back bird is an adult and the middle bird is a juvie/

[Jeff Wear]

I was thinking the bird in the rear was a godwit [the bill up turn] so now r to f all G yellowlegs adult adult juv

[Arthur Morris]

I was thinking the bird in the rear was a godwit [the bill up turn] so now r to f all G yellowlegs adult adult juv

Greater Yellowlegs often show upturned bills to varying degrees.

Please compare the sizes of the three birds and you will see your mistake...

[Steve Maxson]

OK. I'll take a crack at this. The first bird is a lesser yellowlegs (smaller size, shorter straight bill). Both of the others are greater yellowlegs (larger size, longer, sometimes upcurved bill). I would say that the lesser yellowlegs is a juvenile based on what appears to be a distinct patterning on its wing/shoulder. I would say the middle bird is an adult based on the "splotchy" pattern in the wing/shoulder area. I haven't really tried aging shorebirds before so this is a good exercise. Thanks for doing this.

[Ilija Dukovski]

The key here is IMO the size of the bills compared to the width of the head.
Will be back later:)

[Arthur Morris]

The key here is IMO the size of the bills compared to the width of the head.
Will be back later:)

That would be the length of the head.... And yes, that is basic #1 for separating greater and lesser.

[Arthur Morris]

OK. I'll take a crack at this. The first bird is a lesser yellowlegs (smaller size, shorter straight bill). Both of the others are greater yellowlegs (larger size, longer, sometimes upcurved bill). I would say that the lesser yellowlegs is a juvenile based on what appears to be a distinct patterning on its wing/shoulder. I would say the middle bird is an adult based on the "splotchy" pattern in the wing/shoulder area. I haven't really tried aging shorebirds before so this is a good exercise. Thanks for doing this.

Well done Steve. You are almost there. You have IDed all three birds correctly and you are close on the age of the lesser; it is actually a juvenile molting to first winter plumage. All juvenile yellowlegs look spotted white on black. If you look at the coverts, the feathers on the lower part of the folded wing that we can see, those feathers are spotted white on black. But the feathers above that are edged in white. Those are the molting scapulars. The combination of edged scapulars and juvenile coverts in a young shorebird is termed first winter (or first basic) plumage.

To sum up: two faded, molting adult Greater Yellowlegs in the back and a Lesser Yellowlegs molting to 1st winter plumage.

[arash_hazeghi]

Well done Steve. You are almost there. You have IDed all three birds correctly and you are close on the age of the lesser; it is actually a juvenile molting to first winter plumage. All juvenile yellowlegs look spotted white on black. If you look at the coverts, the feathers on the lower part of the folded wing that we can see, those feathers are spotted white on black. But the feathers above that are edged in white. Those are the molting scapulars. The combination of edged scapulars and juvenile coverts in a young shorebird is termed first winter (or first basic) plumage.

To sum up: two faded, molting adult Greater Yellowlegs in the back and a Lesser Yellowlegs molting to 1st winter plumage.

Where can I learn these details :D ? Any why is there such a big difference in size between two greater Yellowlegs?

[Ilija Dukovski]

Arash,

Where can I learn these details :D ?

Artie's book for list of species. Kenn Kaufman's Advanced Birding for lots of details on
difficult birds. Chandler's Shorebirds of N America, Europe and Asia is good general reference
not best to begin learning how to ID birds though. Sibley's Guide of course as general reference.

Any why is there such a big difference in size between two greater Yellowlegs?

The one in the back has its neck up, the closer one has the neck tucked in.
That's why they look very different in size.

[Ilija Dukovski]

Greater Yellowlegs often show upturned bills to varying degrees.

Quite amazing how much upturned the bill on the bird in the back is. Also the color of the bases of the bills
is quite strong here. Good to note for future ID problems.

[Arthur Morris]

Where can I learn these details :D ? Any why is there such a big difference in size between two greater Yellowlegs?

Arash, There are some great guides mentioned below in addition to the two I have been mentioning in some of the other shorebird threads. If you want, however, to learn the basics including just about everything I have posted on shorebirds in this Forum I strongly recommend getting a copy of my "Shorebirds; Beautiful Beachcombers." The book covers all regularly occurring North American species and will teach you the basics of aging (determining the plumage) and identifying them. It is the book to buy before you purchase one of the advanced guides. You can get a signed copy from BIRDS AS ART :)

[Phil Battley]

Back to the middle bird. What features, in this photograph, make it a Greater Yellowlegs not a vagrant Spotted Redshank? I am still surprised by the bill! If you have other shots or can confirm its ID by its rump that'd be most encouraging. If I saw that bird in Africa or Asia I'd note it down as a Spotshank without a further thought.

Cheers, Phil

[Wayne Richardson]

Back to the middle bird. What features, in this photograph, make it a Greater Yellowlegs not a vagrant Spotted Redshank? I am still surprised by the bill! If you have other shots or can confirm its ID by its rump that'd be most encouraging. If I saw that bird in Africa or Asia I'd note it down as a Spotshank without a further thought.

Cheers, Phil

Hi Phil

A Spotted Redshank would have red or orange-red legs, but certainly not yellow. In addition, about 1/2 of the lower mandible would be red too. Note also the bill would curve slightly downwards, which is opposite of Greater Yellowlegs. There would be pronounced dark loral stripe contrasting with an obvious white supercilium.

Cheers: Wayne

[Arthur Morris]

Back to the middle bird. What features, in this photograph, make it a Greater Yellowlegs not a vagrant Spotted Redshank? I am still surprised by the bill! If you have other shots or can confirm its ID by its rump that'd be most encouraging. If I saw that bird in Africa or Asia I'd note it down as a Spotshank without a further thought. Cheers, Phil

To be honest I did not even consider that species in the field. Consulting Hayamn, Marchant, and Prater, however has me convinced that it is not a Spotted Redshank (even though I am not familiar with that species).

Here's why it is not a Spotted Redshank:
1-the legs are yellow not dark red
2-the bill is too short for SPRE and is obviously not slightly drooped at the tip.
3-the middle bird, with its splotchy pattern, is a worn, molting adult. SPRE at this stage of molt would still be showing some large black splotches, the remnants of breeding plumage.

If I were in Africa I would probably think it was a Spotted Redhsank too. :) But it would be a worn adult Greater Yellowlegs.

[Phil Battley]

Thanks Wayne & Artie. The reddish bill base certainly seems to be a strong feature of Spotshanks. And my colour vision isn't that hot for picking up yellow legs off monitors...

So, can anyone supply other shots of Greater Yellowlegs with a bill as slim as this bird? I've always thought of them as having Greenshank-like bill structure (as the rearmost bird does in the shot in question).

Cheers, Phil

[Wayne Richardson]

why is there such a big difference in size between two greater Yellowlegs?

Hi Arash

Apart from posture, as already mentioned, there is the optical illusion when viewing same sized birds through powerful magnifying lenses, i.e. long telephoto lenses or telescopes. The furthest bird will appear larger than the one in front. Good field guides stress this is potential pitfall when attempting to judge size.

Cheers: Wayne

[Arthur Morris]

Thanks Wayne & Artie. The reddish bill base certainly seems to be a strong feature of Spotshanks. And my colour vision isn't that hot for picking up yellow legs off monitors... So, can anyone supply other shots of Greater Yellowlegs with a bill as slim as this bird? I've always thought of them as having Greenshank-like bill structure (as the rearmost bird does in the shot in question). Cheers, Phil

Funny that you should ask. Here are the same two greaters with what was the middle bird in the front now but in focus. Funny how photographs can be so deceptive. The bill here looks much thicker.

[Phil Battley]

Indeed, and the back bird now looks slim... No worries about the ID from me! Thanks for the shots and discussion,

Phil

[Dave Brown]

Hey Guys,

I've never seen a Redshank before,but not for lack of searching.Newfoundland has North America's only records of Common Redshanks,but it's been years since we had a Spotted Redshank.We should be careful to note that Redshanks don't necessarily always have red legs. Juvs and basic(winter ) plumaged adults can show orange or even yellowish legs, that depending on light conditions might not be that easy to discern from Greater or Lesser yellowlegs with deep yellow legs. So it's good to know the distinguishing plumage features as well. Again, I'm just basing this on photos and information from identification guides.when your a birder in Newfoundland you have to be ready for anything.

Dave Brown

[Wayne Richardson]

Hey Guys,

We should be careful to note that Redshanks don't necessarily always have red legs. Juvs and basic(winter ) plumaged adults can show orange or even yellowish legs, that depending on light conditions might not be that easy to discern from Greater or Lesser yellowlegs with deep yellow legs. Dave Brown

Hi Dave

'Shorebirds' by Hayman et al states that legs are "rich red when breeding, otherwise orange-red" for Spotted Redshank. However, I acknowledge the cautionary note above does apply to Common Redshank. While Yellowlegs with orange legs could pose ID problems, bill colour alone should eliminate both Redshanks.

Cheers: Wayne

[Ilija Dukovski]

Hi Dave

'Shorebirds' by Hayman et al states that legs are "rich red when breeding, otherwise orange-red" for Spotted Redshank. However, I acknowledge the cautionary note above does apply to Common Redshank. While Yellowlegs with orange legs could pose ID problems, bill colour alone should eliminate both Redshanks.

Cheers: Wayne

Except that juv. Common Redshank bill color can be problematic too (completely dark). In that case the ratio of length of leg parts (tarsus vs. tibia) is good for ID.

[Arthur Morris]

....

We should be careful to note that Redshanks don't necessarily always have red legs. Juvs and basic(winter ) plumaged adults can show orange or even yellowish legs, that depending on light conditions might not be that easy to discern from Greater or Lesser yellowlegs with deep yellow legs. Dave Brown

Hi Dave. No fair; the bird in question is clearly a faded, molting adult so the above does not apply :) As others have noted however, caution is always best when making difficult IDs.

[Arthur Morris]

Arash, Artie's book for list of species.

Ilija, Please do explain the above comment. Thanks.

[Dave Brown]

Hey Guys,

While your ruling out Redshanks,might aswell rule out Common Greenshank too. They can show yellowish legs and an upturned bill and may present more of a threat to be misidentified as a Yellowlegs than either Redshank.There are ofcourse several features that distinguish Greenshanks from Yellowlegs.Anyone here have Greenshank experience? I've seen just one in Newfoundland 6 years ago.

Dave Brown

[Dan Brown]

Hey Guys,

While your ruling out Redshanks,might aswell rule out Common Greenshank too. They can show yellowish legs and an upturned bill and may present more of a threat to be misidentified as a Yellowlegs than either Redshank.There are ofcourse several features that distinguish Greenshanks from Yellowlegs.Anyone here have Greenshank experience? I've seen just one in Newfoundland 6 years ago.

Dave Brown

I can't add much to this thread except this crummy old scan of a Common Greenshank shot 8 years ago in northern California. The bill seems to be much different than any yellowlegs that I've ever laid eyes on!

[Arthur Morris]

Wow, is film ugly or what? I may have seen one in the IUK--don't remember. Only info is from the books. This species seems to have the heaviest bill of all the Tringas. Hope that Julian can help.

[arash_hazeghi]

Arash, There are some great guides mentioned below in addition to the two I have been mentioning in some of the other shorebird threads. If you want, however, to learn the basics including just about everything I have posted on shorebirds in this Forum I strongly recommend getting a copy of my "Shorebirds; Beautiful Beachcombers." The book covers all regularly occurring North American species and will teach you the basics of aging (determining the plumage) and identifying them. It is the book to buy before you purchase one of the advanced guides. You can get a signed copy from BIRDS AS ART :)

Thanks Artie, I will get one as soon as I get a chance.

[Ilija Dukovski]

Ilija, Please do explain the above comment. Thanks.

Sure,

I was answering Arash's question "Where can I learn all these details."
What I wanted to say is that your book contains a list of
species accounts with details on identification of all shorebirds
found in N. America.

Details on birds identification are also present in many field guides
and reference books ( I mentioned two) but those are not good for
somebody who starts learning birds identification.
On the other hand the book on advanced birding I mentioned has
details, but only on few most difficult species. Most of the ID info
covered in this thread is not there, for example.

Your book covers the space between field guides/reference books,
books that most beginners buy first, and the advanced birding guides
which unfortunately are too advanced and incomplete to get good overall
knowledge for bird identification.

When it comes to shorebirds identification, what I like about your book is
the completeness in the treatment of the subject.
It starts with a chapter on general principles
(distinguishing juv. from adult etc.) and ends with accounts for
each and every N. American shorebird species, illustrated with
(needless to say:) ) superb photos.

I hope this makes it clear.

[Arthur Morris]

Ilija, Thanks for the clear-ification!

[Ilija Dukovski]

Ilija, Thanks for the clear-ification!

No problem.YAW

[john jackson]

There are a couple of calls here for ID pointers for the European Tringas from US birders. The three species mentioned (Redshank, Spotted Redshank and Greenshank) would not be too tough to ID among Greater and Lesser Yellowlegs.

Spotted Redshank: summer adults are black (no issues there!); winter adults are strikingly pale and grey; juveniles kind of in between. It is a big Tringa with long bill and long legs (reminds me of a small godwit). It has a large triangular white rump patch all the way up to between the wings.

Greenshank: most similar to Greater Yellowlegs; has a large triangular white rump patch; and (as Arthur suggested) thick bill slightly upturned.

Redshank: stocky compared to either yellowlegs; large white rump patch and large white triangles on the trailing edge of the wings combine to give three conspicuous triangles in flight; often makes a lot of noise.

Legs: each of the three has variable leg colour that may be yellowish (particularly young birds) rather than the standard red or green. But, not vivid day-glo yellow like the yellowlegs.

Bill: both yellowlegs have a daintier bill (Lesser's is much, much finer) than all these three Europeans.

Marsh Sandpiper is an unlikely vagrant in your direction, but who knows? In many ways similar to a small, slim, long-legged Greenshank, it is daintier even than Lesser Yellowlegs and has an even finer bill. Like the other Euros, it has a large white rump patch.

Overall, if you are used to differentiating between the two yellowlegs, each of the three likely vagrants to NA will stand out as something else and even a brief flight or raised wing will clinch it for sure.