From Nikon to Canon - optimal BIF setup

[Bill McCrystyn]

Jeff, that's a much more palatable statement I can live with, although, John still makes a point. There is no substitute for experience. However it appears here only a couple of us missed the point of the question from Alex. Alex did not ask how to improve his personal skills. Had he, I would not given the advice I did. I most certainly would have given him your's almost verbatum. But he didn't - so I responded to his question in turn using my simuliar experience with his dilemma. (I did own two Canon DX and now I own a D300 with a 200-400VR). To refresh - His question below -

From Nikon to Canon - optimal BIF setup

Hi,


I have a dilemma and I would like your opinion.

I am photographing birds very often - especially raptors - and going light & frequently is my moto (all gear in a lumbar pack).

Now I am using Nikon system, D300 with Nikon 300mm f/4.0 with tc-14e practically glued on it for majority of flight shots. While 300/4 is a very nice lens, through time I found many shortcomings at BIF photography - long focus throw, short AF limit, not so really quick AF and of course constant use of tc-14e, which degrades optical quality a bit (it is good to stop to f/8).
With D300 I have no issues, it is a fantastic camera. I am also very happy with other Nikon lenses I own.

Now for the questions.
1) Do you think I will gain much by getting a Canon setup for birding?
I read that Canon 400/5.6 is a great light lens for BIF - 400mm native, light, short focus throw, great 8.5m focus limit, fast AF - great!
What I am not sure is body selection. For me D300 is great and intuitive, but I cannot decide what would be proper Canon equivalent. Sincerely, I find Canon bodies strange to use with that big wheel, small joystick and menus (no offence intended).

2) Of course gear costs and when evaluating Canon gear I calculated I would pay roughly 1/2 of the price (or even more) of a Nikon 300/2.8, which by itself is great lens - but is heavy thus backpack is a must and holding it while waiting for action would be tough. Also I would probably always stop it down to 5.6 or more to gain some more DOF and at 500-600mm (with TCs) I doubt it would be that much handholdable anyway.

So, now you know my dilemma :-). To stick all the way with a comfortable tool (D300) and get a bigger lens, or try something new with the optimal lens.

What is your opinion/advice?

Thanks. (end quote)

Somehow I don't think my answer was anywhere out of bounds more than Artie's or any less correct. I encouraged him to stick with Nikon and Artie gave him a good alternative should he switch to Canon. All this other moral and high sounding BS has no bearing on his question and mostly, being common horse sense, probably didn't help him one iota with his equipment decision.

[Bill McCrystyn]

Bill, I make jest at the expense of my brethen. I was born in Little Rock. I could not prove what happens at night. When I asked, I was told they shot at them to scare them off the fish population and if they accidentaly hit one - well. All I can tell you is on my way to get an Egret shot yesterday I saw a dead GBH floating in the pond and the week before, a GWE the same. Thier job is first to protect the states investment so as to stock the lakes fishermen enjoy. It is a shame the two seem to be in opposistion.

[Jeff Donald]

Somehow I don't think my answer was anywhere out of bounds more than Artie's or any less correct. I encouraged him to stick with Nikon and Artie gave him a good alternative should he switch to Canon. All this other moral and high sounding BS has no bearing on his question and mostly, being common horse sense, probably didn't help him one iota with his equipment decision.

Having spent over 4 decades in various related photography fields, my advice would not be much different, but it would appear that you would like it restated to better fit the questions at hand.

1) Do you think I will gain much by getting a Canon setup for birding?

Switching gear, really won't solve the issues at hand. New gear is always fun and while I have seen it occasionally reinvigorate a photographer, there will be a learning curve and missed photographic opportunities for sure while you try to learn a new system. The fact that you state that you find Canon bodies strange to use is not a positive either. When I worked in the retail camera industry I frequently sold cameras by urging people to pick the camera that felt the best in their hand, had the easiest to use menu system, brightest and easiest to read viewfinder etc. None of that (except maybe the menus) get better with use. Many a time I had customers buy Nikon (or Canon) based solely on brand preference or the availability of a single lens, body or flash. They would return months later and confess they wished they had listened because they now have several insurmountable issues with their gear related to ergonomics or usability and not image quality. Switch gear only if you must (unless you're a pro & then it might make economic sense) and weigh the alternative of using the additional funds to take a workshop, etc to improve ones skill set.

[Bill McCrystyn]

Bravo Jeff - now that's the best advice I have seen here for Alex yet.

[Christopher C.M. Cooke]

WOW!:confused:

Alex, I hope you are not as confused as I am and I don't intend to give you advice but simply tell you what I use and why I use it.

OK I am restricted to using my motorbikes for transport so my equipment has to fit in my panniers and I tend to concentrate on BIF's and other moving wildlife. The reason, no bird looks as good perched as in motion (IMHO) for all we know a perched bird may well be stuffed and surrounded by human placed artifacts and un natural lighting.

Some swear by this I don't, a bird flying is a thing of beauty in its element a posed bird is simply a beautiful thing.

I have sold all my large L lenses, big tripods and now restrict myself to the lenses I really love and can carry with me anywhere.

My setups are

1) 1D MKIII + 400 f/5.6L + or - the 1.4X Convertor, a truely magical combo and the 1D will autofocus (fast) at f/8 with almost no loss of IQ when used properly.

2) 5D MKII + 300 f/4 IS L + or - the 1.4X Convertor, 3.9 fps not the 10 fps of the 1D but it tracks well and teaches you precision in your composition and tracking and the good shots are simply brilliant. (I may well be the only one using the 5D MKII for BIF's daily) big files though so I carry 3 8gig cards with me for the 5D.

I also never leave home without my old and much loved 70-200 f/4 L which used with or without the 1.4 on the 5D MKII will give astounding images.

I carry a 30D body for backup and a Monopod which I mostly use for balance as well as Nkon binos and a medical kit.

All this equipment fits in my Lowepro back pack which in turn fits in my bike's topbox and I take it anywhere.

The three lenses do very hard work, never see a tripod, 99.9% of my work is hand held. The 300f/4 IS is almost a Macro lens and I use tubes to make it into a field Macro lens on the 5D MKII.

Many of my friends come along lugging large tripods 500/600/800 L Lenses sit in hot hides (I use a Ghillie suit totally vented which weighs ounces) and they go home tired and with many fewer decent shot as I do.

The light equipment forces you to use fieldcraft to get within range of your subject.

Bye the way don't worry about what some people say about Artie and his inability to focus properly, he has taken the odd decent photograph in his short life and is making an attempt to ditch the booze (this should help his focus problem) and reading some of his advice on bird photography is highly reccomended for beginers in this hobby.:):)

[Arthur Morris]

Hi Chris, Thanks for the brilliant advice (and the kind words). As soon as I have a few more margaritas I will type a BAA Notes, get rid of my 500 and my 800mm lenses, and buy myself a motorcycle! But only if I get drunk enough!

[Christopher C.M. Cooke]

Sorry Artie, you need three motorcycles to cope with the differing terain we encounter over here (that is what I tell my wife)

And thank you for turning me in the direction of BIF's and the extrordinary amount of advice and educational material that now has turned my retirement into a life full of wonder and fun and the knowledge that no matter how long I have left on this Earth, my life will be full of wonderful and rewarding challenges to the end.:)

Cheers mate.

PS try good Islay Malt Whisky, the drink of the Gods, steadies the hands and composes the mind.:)

[Bill McCrystyn]

Sorry "mate" - You boys have everything upside down. The Irish rule and invented Whisky. I don't know about your Gods, but men drink Jameson 18 year old reserve. :D

[Christopher C.M. Cooke]

You will get no arguments from me Bill, I am a long term addict of Irish whiskies and have filtered many a bottle of Jamesons, Cooley, Bushmills, Tullamore Dew, Middleton, Powers and Paddy through my aging kidneys over 48 years of tippling.

Having said that a good Scottish Fine Malt is also good for keeping the brain well oiled and when my wife drives I allus have a dram or three to keep the innards warm on the cold sea cliffs of the Great Southern Ocean whilst photographing seabirds in Winter downunder.

And to think some peasants drink "BEER" !:(

[Bill McCrystyn]

We call that piss water :p

If it's Scotch you like, you might try Macallan's single highland malt. Once again 18 year old works for me but it's been getting a wee pricey lately. Irish whisky is my call.

Alex, are you getting all this? This is the advice money can't buy.

[Christopher C.M. Cooke]

18 Years old Bill, Tis but a wee baby.

I will see your 18 year old prepubscent tipple and raise you 37 years.

If I win the Lotto this weekend, I will fly over and we will share a bottle of this rare breed, might well invite our Mentor and well known Dipsomaniac Artie to share it with us.

Fingers crossed mate.:)

[Arthur Morris]

Chris and Bill, I deleted all the links to the various whiskey companies. Links to commercial sites (other than possibly your own website) are not permitted. Please refrain. Thanks.

ps to Chris: Thanks for your kind words above and YAW.

[Christopher C.M. Cooke]

Sorry Artie, we should not have digressed into the world of links to sites that have nothing to do with our hobby.

Consider us suitably spanked and we will not break the rules again.

Thanks again Master.

[Bill McCrystyn]

Dun it is - ;) But I think considering the latest weather proofing in light of the season - never mind. :)

[David Stephens]

I can't add to the Canon vs. Nikon discussion, but I do own the Canon 400mm f5.6L and use it on the 5D MkII FF and 7D 1.6-crop bodies. When I bought the 5.6 I was wishing that it had IS, but that doesn't really seem to be a problem for me, using it on a Manfrotto monopod with the Manfrotto gimbal head. My technique with the monopod is to lightly steady the MP with my left hand and control the camera with a medium touch and low tension. When balanced correctly the camera/lens swings with a light touch.

The 7D is a very recent purchase to take advantage of the 1.6 crop. I only use the 1.4TC when the light is strong enough for the AF to work. Since I like to go out at dawn, that's not very often. I'm more likely to put the TC on for a static bird, rather than BIF.

Here's juvenile ring-billed gull taken with the 5.6 on the 5D2:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dcstep/4019611533/

If you've got a fast internet connection you may want to pixel-peep at the original size, which is cropped around 20%. It was processed by DxO's Optic Pro which does correct for body/lens geometric errors and other optical issues. I don't have any images that I haven't processed with DxO, but if anyone really cares, I could reprocess this image with all corrections turned off.

The strong points of the 5.6 are that it's very sharp, fast AF, compact and light. On a 1.6 crop-sensor it reaches to 640mm-equivalent. With a 1.4TC it's just under 900mm-equivalent. At the shorter lengths it's very practical to hand hold.

As for the Nikon vs. Canon, I think it's a matter of how long you've been with either system. Canon is consistant from it's P&S up to its top cameras. It would take a died in the wool Nikonphile a week or two to get used to the Canon system, I'd guess. When the 7D came in, it took me about an hour to understand its new features vs. the 5D2. Even learning those few features involved some minutes that seemed "cryptic" to me, but I figured them out.

Dave

[Arthur Morris]

Chris and Bill, No problema. Thanks for understanding.

[Arthur Morris]

I loved my 400 f/5.6 L lenses for about two decades but now use the 400 DO in its place.

Anyone wanna buy a like new 400mm f/5.6 L without the tripod collar?

[Geraldo Hofmann]

What a pitty ...not enough margaritas... I was hoping for super deal with the 500mm & 800mm sorry couldn't resist.
Geraldo

[Arthur Morris]

What a pitty ...not enough margaritas... I was hoping for super deal with the 500mm & 800mm sorry couldn't resist. Geraldo

No problema. And though I love a good margarita I do not drink them anymore, ever, as I am taking care of my blood sugars.

[Christopher C.M. Cooke]

No problema. And though I love a good margarita I do not drink them anymore, ever, as I am taking care of my blood sugars.

I too miss my nightly glass of Irish Cream owing to the fact that I too suffer from the same medical curse and even one small glass will ensure a sleepless night but never mind mate there are other avenues to replace our past high sugar content relaxants, I just have not found any that taste quite the same yet.:)

[Arthur Morris]

Hey Chris, Do you know the natural sweetener Stevia? I put 1/4 tsp of cinnamon with some Stevia in a glass of cold water and blend it; a cinnamon smoothie. Sweet as can be and filling. It is my savior. Did you see the "Your Health; None of My Business" info that I published?

[Christopher C.M. Cooke]

[quote] Did you see the "Your Health; None of My Business" info that I published? [/QUOT

Yes Artie I certainly did and had a quiet chuckle and saved it for my wife who is a nurse.

We must have similar genes as I too have (of and on) Atrial fibrillation and spent some years on Warfarin now on low dose Asprin and Sotacor, Essential Hypertension treated with Zanadip and Zestril and Type 2 Diabetes treated with diet and Metformin, are you sure you Dad was not hanging around the West Indies in the Forties?:)

I am presently looking into the treatment you are on. I am seeing my Endocrinologist, next week and will talk to him about it.

Possibly the worst thing is owing to severe leg injuries (Yes Motorcycles) I am limited to an exercise bike which bores me stiff and with the Sotacor it is difficult to get my heart rate up.

Never mind I intend to give the Grim Reaper a run for his money but as most males on my Father's side of the family died of the complications of Diabetes I intend to simply pack as much life as possible. into the time I have left

You do the same old friend.

[Arthur Morris]

Hi Chris,

re:

We must have similar genes as I too have (of and on) Atrial fibrillation and spent some years on Warfarin now on low dose Asprin and Sotacor, Essential Hypertension treated with Zanadip and Zestril and Type 2 Diabetes treated with diet and Metformin.

One of the first things that I learned from Cliff Oliver is that for over-weight sugar junkies the diseases come in packages; amazing how many of us have had ulcers, a-fib, and diabetes...With Cliff's help I was able to get off all of the big time heart meds that I was one. They will kill you faster than the diseases.

I am presently looking into the treatment you are on. I am seeing my Endocrinologist, next week and will talk to him about it.

The basics are diet and exercise. I would advise you to order a copy of Richard K. Bernstein's book immediately and read it. It will open your eyes as it did mine.

Possibly the worst thing is owing to severe leg injuries (Yes Motorcycles) I am limited to an exercise bike which bores me stiff and with the Sotacor it is difficult to get my heart rate up.

As you likely know leg injuries and diabetes are not a good combo.

Never mind I intend to give the Grim Reaper a run for his money but as most males on my Father's side of the family died of the complications of Diabetes I intend to simply pack as much life as possible. into the time I have left. You do the same old friend.

The most important thing that I learned from the book is that if you are willing to make the dietary and exercise sacrifices that you can control the disease by normalizing blood sugars rather than having the disease control you. He scoffs at those who state that folks will be fine with A1c's "under 7 or under 6.5." Those numbers = amputations and kidney failure and blindness. You gotta love it.

I checked the want ads and did not see any folks looking for blind photographers.

I don't want come off as preaching or hoity toity but diabetes is a deadly killer and Western medicine is still mostly in the dark. Sorry to all of those doctors out there. :)

[/quote]

[Christopher C.M. Cooke]

I checked the want ads and did not see any folks looking for blind photographers.

A salient point indeed. I have my eyes checked three times a year and luckily still have way above average eyesight however I have had laser treatment a few times for minor bleeds so you can't take anything for granted.

The hospital where I used to work and my wife still does (she runs the Neuro Rehab Ward) is attached to IDI The International Diabetes Institute and one of our best friends is the Diabetes Educator attached to IDI http://www.bakeridi.edu.au/

I have ordered the three books on the Amazon link and my wife is quite impressed with his credentials and your progress through your various illnesses and I suspect that I will be coerced into adopting your control method, hello veggies and salads and goodbye carbs.


Thanks again Artie for your care for others, it shows that you are a man of many valuable talents who is willing to share them with people who can well use your help.:):):)

[Arthur Morris]

YAW.

As soon as you get the Bernstein book start reading! You mention bleeds in the eye; it would seem that those are absolutely diabetic complications; do you know that for sure?

Again if you think of amputations, blindness, kidney failure, and--let's not forget sexual dysfunction, then perhaps you well not need to be coerced. :)

I will check out the link.

[Christopher C.M. Cooke]

Artie, I worked for a while at Caulfield Hospital in Melbourne where my wife has been a Senior Nurse and Nurse Educator for 26 years and one of the areas I worked in was the Prosthetics and Orthotics Dept of Caulfield Hospital where 30% of our lower limb amputees were Diabetics and or smokers.

As a result of my lower leg injuries I have had a few ulcers some very serious and I am well aware of the prospects (especially because of my love of motorbikes) of lower leg amputations but choose to enjoy my love of my sports and hobbies and simply take as many precautions as are reasonable.


I learned from my Dad the benefits of living life to the full and accepting without complaint the consequences of doing so and will continue to push the limits until the body gives out, but I am still am very willing to try alternative medicine as coming from a family with a strong medical background we are well aware that Doctors kill as many folks as war.


So Artie, I will keep you informed of my weight loss (I should lose about 25 Kilograms) and my blood sugar levels (though our measurement system is different to yours)


Take care of yourself mate, your loss to this world would be much greater than mine. (my wife agrees with that:))

[Arthur Morris]

Bernstein is a Western medicine MD and though he disagrees strongly with the standard Western medicine ideas about diabetes his methods would not in any way be considered "alternative."

Thanks for your kind words and best of luck.

[Russell Martin]

I loved my 400 f/5.6 L lenses for about two decades but now use the 400 DO in its place.

Anyone wanna buy a like new 400mm f/5.6 L without the tripod collar?

I would if I had enough pennies saved, alas I doubt I do at this point.

[Arthur Morris]

Hey Jeff, Great to see you posting here. And thanks for your kind words. As for your thoughts on equipment, I agree 100%.