Raptor eating raptor

[John Chardine]

A local photographer sent me this image of a Peregrine eating a raptor, possibly a harrier. The image was made on 13 Oct 2009 at Escuminac, New Brunswick.

I was very taken with the image having not heard of a raptor being prey to another raptor before.

I'll note that if the prey is a harrier, they have a very buoyant, purposeful flight and so from that standpoint would be easy pickings for the fast-flying peregrine. However, I would think a harrier would put up a good fight and the falcon risks injury in taking one.

Anyone else have examples of similar prey being taken by a raptor?

[Desmond Chan]

Interestingly enough, ran into a local photog last Friday and he told me about a peregrine going after a harrier, too. Now I wonder if he was talking about the same incident. But, wow !

[John Chardine]

Now that IS a coincidence Desmond! It also may indicate a relatively common occurrence. Who knows?

[Eric Virkler]

John, Several years ago in Ft. Lauderdale I was relaxing on a 9th story balcony as a peregrine floated above. After watching it awhile, I noticed a turkey vulture come soaring into the picture a good distance below the falcon. I was wondering to myself if a falcon would ever hit a vulture. The vulture is huge by comparison, but weak and definitely not enough meat worth eating. Sure enough, that falcon went into a dive and nailed the vulture on the shoulder and the two of them went tumbling out of site. A minute or two later the falcon was back. My guess is the falcon just wanted to drive the vulture out of the area.

Eric
Faces of Nature Photography
www.ericjvirkler.com

[Roy Priest]

John, this is unfortunately a common occurrence. To a motivated falcon a harrier is easy prey but with those longs legs they do injure the predator. Kestrels are tasty morsels for larger hawks and falcons. I have seen pictures of a female sparrowhawk eating a male sparrowhawk. Not very pretty to see but the most disturbing picture to me was a tiger eating a leopard. Pretty bizarre.

[Suzanne Huot]

What an amazing capture and most informative as well

[Kiran Poonacha]

Wow what a scene...

[John Chardine]

John, this is unfortunately a common occurrence. To a motivated falcon a harrier is easy prey but with those longs legs they do injure the predator. Kestrels are tasty morsels for larger hawks and falcons. I have seen pictures of a female sparrowhawk eating a male sparrowhawk. Not very pretty to see but the most disturbing picture to me was a tiger eating a leopard. Pretty bizarre.

On behalf of Clarence thanks to all so far.

Roy- I hadn't realised this was so common. Being an ecologist, the bizarre part of this whole story for me is that we are used to one trophic level in a food chain eating the trophic level below, but when they eat at the same trophic level is is somehow "not right". This also has implications for toxic chemicals- predators at the top of food chains have already concentrated the chemicals from below them so if you then have a top predator eating a top predator, they are potentially getting a lot more chemicals in their diet. Perhaps this is still not common enough to have ecological implications though.

[Arthur Morris]

John, this is unfortunately a common occurrence. To a motivated falcon a harrier is easy prey but with those longs legs they do injure the predator. Kestrels are tasty morsels for larger hawks and falcons. I have seen pictures of a female sparrowhawk eating a male sparrowhawk. Not very pretty to see but the most disturbing picture to me was a tiger eating a leopard. Pretty bizarre.

An amazing photograph (too bad about the clipped primaries on the prey). I am puzzled by Roy's remarks above; why unfortunate? Why disturbing? Nature is nature and various predators can be brutal at times. Would you prefer that the predators starve to death?

Where was the image of the tiger eating the leopard made?

[Randy Stout]

John:

In the photo Clarence took, did he see the attack, or just the eating? Could it have been a dead bird, or won't peregrines eat carrion?

Randuy

[John Chardine]

Hi Randy- He did not see the "hit". There is no mention of scavenging that I can find in the Birds of North America account for the species, although Peregrines do cache food for later consumption.

[Axel Hildebrandt]

On behalf of Clarence thanks to all so far.

Roy- I hadn't realised this was so common. Being an ecologist, the bizarre part of this whole story for me is that we are used to one trophic level in a food chain eating the trophic level below, but when they eat at the same trophic level is is somehow "not right". This also has implications for toxic chemicals- predators at the top of food chains have already concentrated the chemicals from below them so if you then have a top predator eating a top predator, they are potentially getting a lot more chemicals in their diet. Perhaps this is still not common enough to have ecological implications though.

That is an interesting point, I only knew this is the case with bigger fish. Would this be more prominent in fish-eating species like bald eagles and ospreys than in peregrines and smaller hawks?

[Dr.Pranay Rao Juvvadi]

This is a great record. I'm not sure it is a harrier, the tarsus is quite short and stout, and so are the feet. Does your friend have pictures from diffrent angles? Were the remains examined after the peregrine left?

I have seen pictures and a video of a juvenile Peregrine feeding on a juvenile Northern Harrier: http://www.flickr.com/photos/guylmonty/244542729/ and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dGPZN4e4Q4 ... it is mentioned in the above links that the authors have actually seen peregrine take down the harrier.

Here is a picture of a Northern Goshawk feeding on a Eurasian Sparrowhawk: http://www.arkive.org/northern-gosha...ge-G43043.html this to me looks like a set up, but can't be sure!

In India I have seen an adult female Bonelli's Eagle Hieraaetus fasciatus feeding on a White-eyed Buzzard and a pair of Black Shaheen Falcons Falco peregrinus peregrinator hunting and feeding on Amur Falcons. Also a Bonelli's Eagle pair hunting harriers (unsuccessful) and an unsuccessful hunting attempt of an adult Peregrine Falcon Falco peregrinus calidus on an adult female Red Headed Merlin Falco chicquera. In nearly 15 years of watching wild raptors, the above were the only instances that I have come across.

[Declan Troy]

John, regarding raptors eating raptors, this is quite frequent with owls. The little guys are often snacks for the next size up. Just like the chain of big fish eating the smaller fish.

[Ilija Dukovski]

John, regarding raptors eating raptors, this is quite frequent with owls. The little guys are often snacks for the next size up. Just like the chain of big fish eating the smaller fish.

I heard anecdotes of Great Horned Owl eating Red-tailed hawk too.

[Steve Maxson]

A few more observations. A number of years ago, in the pre-digital age, I was able to take many photos, at close range, of a juvenile peregrine eating a sharp-shinned hawk in my neighbor's backyard. While the peregrine was incredibly tame, it was unbanded, suggesting it was a wild-reared bird. Just this fall, I have seen photos from the Hawk Ridge site in Duluth of a peregrine flying by with a dead sharp-shinned hawk in its talons. Also, I once flushed a ruff-legged hawk from a roadside ditch and it was carrying a dead short-eared owl.

[John Chardine]

Here's an image of the prey. Unfortunately the head was missing.

[Dr.Pranay Rao Juvvadi]

Thanks for the prey picture John. This to me is a Buteo (the stout tarsi and feet, the pattern on the under parts and the finer tail barring); from the fresh plumage, looks like a juvenile Buteo, but not sure which species.

[Shawn P. Carey]

A good friend with Massachusetts Audubon has photos or has seen Snowy Owls killing and eating, Great Blue Heron, Short-eared Owl and other Snowy Owls just to name a few.

Also last month I saw a photo of a first year Peregrine eating an Osprey it had killed.

Last note, Great Horned Owls are well known here in Massachusetts to attack and kill young Osprey's in the nest.

As for this raptor it may be a Harrier.

[Wayne Richardson]

Hi All

Great image by Clarence!

Raptors’ predating other raptors is a normal behaviour, but rarely witnessed. Eagle Owls in Europe are well known for eliminating the competition. However, I note from other responses, that several quoted examples involve young birds. Perhaps this suggests they are quite desperate & prepared to tackle something that could potentially seriously injure or even kill them.


I recall the stunning 'Goshawk with Sparrowhawk' image came 2nd in a photo competition & should have won IMO given the unique nature of the capture.


Cheers: Wayne


PS: The tail pattern alone would eliminate Harrier, of any age, so I have to agree with Pranay that the prey item here is most likely a Buteo.

[Roy Priest]

An amazing photograph (too bad about the clipped primaries on the prey). I am puzzled by Roy's remarks above; why unfortunate? Why disturbing? Nature is nature and various predators can be brutal at times. Would you prefer that the predators starve to death?

Where was the image of the tiger eating the leopard made?

Artie, being a raptorphile and a falconer for most of my life ( since I was 13) I find any dead raptor an unfortunate occurrence. The majority of them don't live to see a second year and adult plumage. The pictures of the leopard being eaten were just creepy to me, why I don't know exactly but cannibalism is creepy.:) I believe I saw them on a TV show.

[Roy Priest]

On behalf of Clarence thanks to all so far.

Roy- I hadn't realised this was so common. Being an ecologist, the bizarre part of this whole story for me is that we are used to one trophic level in a food chain eating the trophic level below, but when they eat at the same trophic level is is somehow "not right". This also has implications for toxic chemicals- predators at the top of food chains have already concentrated the chemicals from below them so if you then have a top predator eating a top predator, they are potentially getting a lot more chemicals in their diet. Perhaps this is still not common enough to have ecological implications though.

As others have responded this is common but not usually seen. Having flown falcons and hawks for a long time I have witnessed my own birds killing and trying to kill other raptors and have had many raptors try to kill my birds. Golden eagles and Great horned owls kill a great many trained raptors each and every year mostly from ambush and they surely must take a lot of wild raptors. Here's a couple of links to goshawk predation. You may find them interesting.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/c...TRY=1&SRETRY=0
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...31114/abstract

[Brian Barcelos]

Hard to I.D. this one with head missing but after looking through all my N. American Raptor books I'm willing to bet this is a juvenile Peregrine as the prey.

[Shawn P. Carey]

The more I look at the photo of the dead raptor I think Brian is correct and this is a young Peregrine.

[John Chardine]

The plot thickens!

[arash_hazeghi]

Crazy shot, thanks for the information.

[John Chardine]

If we indeed have an example of "cannibalism" here, I wanted to make sure people understood that there is nothing counter-adaptive to this special type of predation. There is a hugely pervasive understanding out there on the street that individual organisms behave "for the good of the species". You see this frequently in the popular press and even on supposedly authoritative wildlife specials on TV. I once saw a reference to this in so many words in the respected magazine "New Scientist" but they refused to admit it.

If we assume for the moment that individuals do indeed behave for the good of the species, then cannibalism is hard to reconcile. However, we know that natural selection works in a different way- behaviours are selected for the good of the individual or gene, not the species, so with this in mind a Peregrine is just a food item to another Peregrine.

The only thing that cannibals have to be careful of is eating relatives. This would be strongly selected against because of the decrease in inclusive fitness that this would entail (a gene for indiscriminate cannibalism would quickly go to extinction because it would essentially destroy itself). So, however abhorrent cannibalism may be, there is nothing bizarre about it from an evolutionary standpoint.

A final point- top predators like the Peregrine are rare in communities because they have to share their food base with other predators (think of how many big cats are supported by how many antelope in the African savannah). This is the reason cannibalism is rare in the big picture. No matter how commonly we might see raptors eating other raptors, it is not as common as raptors eating organisms below them in the food chain because there just aren't that many raptors around.

[Dave Brown]

Hi All,

Today I witnessed a large female Northern Goshawk,force an immature Northern Harrier to the ground.It then proceeded to pluck it and consume it.It was quite an amazing sight.A short while later the Goshawk actually flew off into the woods with the Harrier. This is in an area where other prey items such as willow Ptarmigan and rodents are relatively abundant,so perhaps Harriers are a regular on the menu of other large raptors. I'd imagine a Gyrfalcon wouldn't think twice about taking a Harrier either!

Dave Brown

[Steve Maxson]

If we indeed have an example of "cannibalism" here, I wanted to make sure people understood that there is nothing counter-adaptive to this special type of predation. There is a hugely pervasive understanding out there on the street that individual organisms behave "for the good of the species". You see this frequently in the popular press and even on supposedly authoritative wildlife specials on TV. I once saw a reference to this in so many words in the respected magazine "New Scientist" but they refused to admit it.

If we assume for the moment that individuals do indeed behave for the good of the species, then cannibalism is hard to reconcile. However, we know that natural selection works in a different way- behaviours are selected for the good of the individual or gene, not the species, so with this in mind a Peregrine is just a food item to another Peregrine.

The only thing that cannibals have to be careful of is eating relatives. This would be strongly selected against because of the decrease in inclusive fitness that this would entail (a gene for indiscriminate cannibalism would quickly go to extinction because it would essentially destroy itself). So, however abhorrent cannibalism may be, there is nothing bizarre about it from an evolutionary standpoint.

Well said, John.

[Wayne Richardson]

Hi All

I've been through several top field guides including 'Raptors of Europe & The Middle East' &, where it is possible to see the undertail on an immature Peregrine, they have irregular thin light stripes on dark background. This is the opposite of this prey item here. :confused: Compare it with Rob Palmer's recent 'Peregrine Falcon (reposted)' image on another site - an anagram of SNN.

Cheers: Wayne

[Julian Hough]

Raptors aren't my forte really, but the plumage doesn't seem to fit Northern Harrier or Peregrine.

This is a little "off-centre" and from the hip, but the long wings, finely-barred tail and buff-toned underparts remind me of a juv. intermediate morph Swainson's Hawk more than any other buteo I know.

Of course this would be a vagrant in New Brunswick...and an unlucky one at that!

[Dave Brown]

Hey,

Are there any other photos of this bird?

Dave

[Julian Hough]

Seems I got lucky with this one...Just got this response from Brian Sullivan, well-known raptor expert who's writing a paper on SWHA..


Julian
I wouldn't say hawks aren't your forte, because you nailed this one. I'm currently working on a SWHA paper and have been photographing hundreds. This bird is pretty typical of an intermediate type. Feel free to post this to your group if you'd like. Cool bird, and the NB records committee will be interested to hear about this. I think a weak, tired SWHA wouldn't be much of a challenge for a hungry female PG.

Maybe John can forward this to those who might be further interested.

Best,

Julian

[John Chardine]

Wow! Just picked up this thread again. People will be interested. I will pass the info along to the New Brunswick rare birds committee.

[John Chardine]

Here's a thought. I wonder if there's a hawk fancier up that way who happened to have a captive Swainson's Hawk? I'll check it out.

So it wasn't cannibalism after all!

[Julian Hough]

The bird appears to be a juv. so it would be a bird that was bred this year in captivity. The date suggests a vagrant and probably a tired one at that....

J

[Glen Fox]

The feet and legs tail tell me its NOT a harrier..The coloration strikes me as being very similar to the peregrine and the wings are long. Its either another juvenile Peregrine or a buteo, and if its a buteo, likely a Broadwinged Hawk. From the 2 photographs we have, its far easier to say what it is not than what it is. To say it is a Swainson's way off course is irresponsible, and one would certainly not want to enter it into the NB record books as such. Let's just be sensible and enjoy the photographs and observation for what it is.. a juvenile peregrine eating an unidentified raptor!

Thank you Clarence and John for sharing.

[Arthur Morris]

To say it is a Swainson's way off course is irresponsible, and one would certainly not want to enter it into the NB record books as such. Let's just be sensible and enjoy the photographs and observation for what it is.. a juvenile peregrine eating an unidentified raptor! Thank you Clarence and John for sharing.

Glen, With all due respect, did you bother reading the thread above? On what are you basing your opinion on?

Here, from the Cornell Laboratory of Ornithology website is a short bio of Brian Sullivan who confirmed Julian Hough's identification of the bird as an immature Swainson's Hawk:

"Brian Sullivan has conducted fieldwork on birds throughout North America for the past twelve years. Birding travels and field projects have taken him to Central and South America, to the Arctic and across North America. He has written and consulted on various books, popular, and scientific literature on North American birds. Research interests include migration, conservation biology, seabirds, raptors and field identification. He is currently eBird Project Leader."

A quick Google search turned up an article that he authored:

Interspecific depredation of raptors by red-tailed hawks (Buteo jamaicensis) on San Clemente Island, California.(Notes)(Report)

Southwestern Naturalist | March 1, 2009| Bahm, Matt A.; Sullivan, Brian L.

I am therefore quite puzzled by your comment stating that the ID is "way off course and irresponsible."

It seems to me that it is your comments that are way of course and irresponsible.

[Shawn P. Carey]

Just exchanged e-mails with Bill Clark and Wayne Petersen (Mass Audubon) and both agree on Swainson's Hawk.

Bill is one of the leading raptors experts in North America and possible the world. Wayne Petersen is one of the top ornithologist in New England and possible the US.

Here's Bill's comments:
It would have been easy to ID this hawk if the photographer had taken pics of the spread wing.

Nevertheless, from the dark coloration, orangish legs, markings on the belly, and undertail pattern, I believe this to have been a juvenile Swainson's Hawk, a somewhat heavily marked one. One of our banded Swainson's from Cape May was recovered in NB the next spring.

Here's Wayne's comments:
What an amazing photograph! I tend to agree with Bill, that despite the out-of-range location in New Brunswick, the carcass certainly looks like a young Swainson's Hawk. The apparent wing length alone is suggestive, combined with the very dark coloration and the markings on the underparts. The tail pattern looks right, too. How bizarre........

[Arthur Morris]

Thanks a ton Shawn. (How come you missed getting in touch with Brian K. Wheeler?)

[Shawn P. Carey]

I do not know Brian, however Wayne is a very good friend and I do know Bill and have interviewed for my raptor video. Bill has also been a guest speaker for Eastern Mass Hawk Watch for which I am past President and current Vice President. In fact he gave a talk here in Massachusetts in late August on Harlan's Hawks. Very interesting information which I believe he has written an article in ABA Birding magazine.

However I do know you Artie...I'm sure I'll run in to you in Florida in December or January for my annual visit.

Take care.

[Arthur Morris]

I was just teasing as Brian is pretty good with raptors too. I will be around in DEC this year. Hope that our paths cross.

[Declan Troy]

Since y'all are talking about Brian Sullivan and Swainson's Hawks I'll put in a plug for him. When I last crossed paths with Brian he was wrestling with a molt issue that necessitated some information about winter adults for which there was surprisingly poorly represented in museums (surprising given the immense mortality that has occurred from insecticides in Argentina). So if any of the photographers here, especially those from Argentina with an interest in raptors) have images of flying adults taken during the winter, Brian would be interested in seeing them. I can put you in touch with him if you have the goods.

[Jonah Saltas]

Thought I'd mention, I had a chance to watch hawks with Jerry Liguori last year and I think I learned more in one day from him than I have in a year on my own. He also taught the group quite a bit about photographing birds in flight. Excellent experience but he was quirky about us using our spotting scopes, although I think I learned more by the end of the day with my binoculars.


Jonah Saltas

[Julian Hough]

I just read these post subsequent to Glen's post and wanted to comment that i found it strange that he would call the identification of this bird irresponsible. Swainson's Hawks are regular to the north-east in fall, so it's not unusual for one to occur there - it is unusual for one to get eaten by a peregrine though!

The photos were good enough for me to identify the bird. Actually, Jerry Liguori, a good friend of mine, and someone i consider to be one of the most knowledgeable raptor experts in the US initially confirmed my identification after i sent him the link, as did Brian, someone else i respect on hawk matters.

I hope that clears the matter up.

[Chris Sloan]

I know Brian from co-leading pelagic trips, and actually spent a day with him photographing Swainson's Hawks in central California back in July. If Brian says it's a Swainson's Hawk, there aren't very many people qualified to dispute him. He's probably taken more pictures of that species than just about anyone alive.

[Roy Priest]

Found this on another forum I belong to. It's a Peregrine eating another peregrine.
http://www.gobmallorca.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1718