Jeez, I must have thought that those were RGB values.... Do you carry a gun at Bosque???
Note to all: Do not get Chas pissed off!
Jeez, I must have thought that those were RGB values.... Do you carry a gun at Bosque???
Note to all: Do not get Chas pissed off!
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Originally Posted by Arthur Morris
Artie,
With all due respect regarding when, where, and if I decide to carry... concealed means concealed. Rest assured the drawing of a weapon is not taken lightly, and the use of deadly force always a last resort.
Respectfully,
Chas
Chas packs heat !!! Wasn't that a rider to the cash for clunkers deal.. carrying in National Parks ?
Lou
Because someone has a legal carry permit it does not mean they are in possession, it means they have the right to do so if and when they choose, as the law allows.
Chas
Last edited by Charles Glatzer; 10-20-2009 at 12:12 PM.
Either way this is all scary news to me. Perhaps being from NYC I have led a sheltered life....
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With all due respect, I would not at all be comfortable around anyone who might or might not be carrying a gun (except for most police officers)... Guns have never been a part of my life and I choose to keep it that way.
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Arthur,
I carry where legal, yes.
On your other question, Al Forns has said earlier in this thread that he was held up at gunpoint, though he didn't say specifically that camera gear was taken. On similar discussions on other forums in the past, I recall at least one photographer saying he'd been robbed at gunpoint. It certainly isn't common, though I would guess it depends a lot on where you are photographing. Crowded spots like Bosque and Yellowstone don't present much risk, whereas some of the isolated places described above would.
When I arrived to shoot the VLF contest in South Texas in 1998, one of the first things my rancher did was offer me a firearm (I declined, having brought my own). An old railroad right-of-way that ran through the ranch was a corridor for illegals heading north, and I did have three guys show up at my cabin one day, two miles from the main ranch. They only wanted water and directions, and being armed, I was more comfortable giving them a drink than I otherwise would have been (I wasn't much help with directions, not speaking Spanish, but was able to point them toward the town they asked about). Another photographer in the contest told me she was set up in a blind at night (for owls or bats, I guess) when several trespassers came walking through the brush. She yelled for them to get out, and they did. There are a number of public spots in the Valley not considered particularly safe for birders, and I imagine the same is true in many areas.
Artie,
I hope neither of us is ever in a predicament to find out how we will fair in such an encounter. You may rest assured that I will come to your aid if need be (assuming I am in possession at the time), or you can choose to wait for the PO to arrive after the fact. But, please be sure to let me know quickly.
Best Amigo,
Chas
Last edited by Charles Glatzer; 10-20-2009 at 02:58 PM.
As I said above, this has been a real eye opener for me. If I ever did own a gun (however inconceivable that seems to me now), the most likely result would probably be Plaxico Burress-like....
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I'm giving you the ok right now if I am with you.
It doesn't bother me to think that law abiding people are carrying a concealed weapon. It is the criminals who carry that bother me. They carry weapons, legal or not.
I see this as being similar to the recent responses to Artie's photo of the bear approaching the photographer. If you don't feel comfortable doing it don't, but don't stop someone who is comfortable from carrying a weapon.
Thankfully no one here has suggested that, but only stated whether or not they are comfortable carrying a weapon.
Well it is like anything else that demands responsibilities. I am an anesthetist and for 20 years have been delivering anesthesia to people needing surgery. There are a lot of people that have said to me that they would not want the responsibitiy of making decisions that are a matter of life and death, but with training and experience one becomes more comfortable, BUT ALWAYS with that bit of caution and respect. Everyone must know their limitations. I believe in training and proficency.
Last edited by Nancy A Elwood; 10-20-2009 at 04:32 PM.
OK, that's where I tune out of the thread. Bye.
John, I do not understand your comment. Please explain.
ps: I think that others may be in the same boat....
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I just find the words "deadly force", and more particularly the thinking behind this to be deplorable and utterly inappropriate for our nature photography forum.
Last edited by John Chardine; 10-20-2009 at 07:18 PM.
Thanks John. I am pretty much in your camp. I am sure that those who are "carrying" while photographing will feel that we might change our attitudes if we are ever robbed or assaulted.
BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.
BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.
Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,
E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.
One of the best things that I ever learned from getting my CHL was to choose where you are carefully. If you let it talk to yo, your "gut instinct" will tell you if you're going to be in danger. Listen and avoid. Actually using deadly force comes with consequences even with a permit. (Just read Charles comments :) so I guess I could have just said ditto.)
I'm a Glock kind of guy... but that's probably because I'm a Glock Certified Armorer (not to be confused with just plain certified :D )
On the topic of deadly force- I saw a Bald Eagle returning to it's nest with prey. It had used deadly force. Bears attack people all the time, with deadly force. The thread is about crimes against photographers. The reality is that there are bad people in the world and one can choose to protect themselves or be a victim. The good thing for us is that we get to choose. The simplest thing to do is avoid putting yourself in a bad situation.
PS- I don't carry while photographing in public... I've never felt the need. I can't say that's always true if I have backpacked or hiked into desert country close to Mexico.
Last edited by Michael Lloyd; 10-22-2009 at 06:46 AM.
Here's one example taken from the San Diego Birds Yahoo group:
An assault was reported at Lindo Lake this past week. In the am hours
on Wed morning, a woman was photographing birds at the lake and was
assaulted by a young man riding a bicycle. He rode past her, then
turned around and struck her from behind, grabbed her camera/tripod and
attempted to flee. A passerby attempted to detain him but was
unsuccessful. The woman was thankfully uninjured, but her camera gear
was destroyed.
Watch yourself out there!
John Afdem
Huntington Beach, CA
Here's another: http://www.naturephotographers.net/i...074862&u=14955
Thanks for sharing Charlie. I am headed to CA next week....
BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.
BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.
Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,
E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.
The words "deadly force" are just that, words. The question Chas was addressing, though, was what to do if actual deadly force, not just words but the reality, was directed at him. He said he would use deadly force only as a last resort. I wonder what part of that is deplorable? Tim Treadwell swore he'd never hurt a bear, that he'd be honored to be eaten by a bear. In the actual event, he begged his companion to strike the bear that was killing him. I suspect most people would do whatever they could to save themselves when deadly force is directed toward them, whether that's biting the assailant's finger off, gouging out his eyes, etc., etc. Given that just displaying a firearm stops an assault something like 98% of the time, I wonder why that's so awful? And I wonder why personal self-defense against a real aggressor is so evil compared to, say, a nation invading and occupying foreign countries and dismissing the deaths of uncounted innocent civilians as "collateral damage."
Last edited by Cliff Beittel; 11-03-2009 at 07:21 PM.
Hi Artie,
Be careful at Lindo Lakes early in the morning. Coincidentally, I'll be in Ft. Myers next week. I guess the grass is always greener....
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