Pomarine Skua

[Joel Brueziere]

Labbe pomarin
Spatelraubmöwe
Stercorarius pomarinus

Lake Leman, Vaud, Switzerland, 03.09.2006, Canon 20D 100x400

[Axel Hildebrandt]

Great banking pose and eye contact. what is in the BG? I would sharpen the bird more and could see this as a vertical crop, too. You could also try to tone down the highlights a bit. Please post the complete techs.

[Harshad Barve]

lovely banking pose , IMHO vertical crop will look better
TFS

[Joel Brueziere]

Great banking pose and eye contact. what is in the BG? I would sharpen the bird more and could see this as a vertical crop, too. You could also try to tone down the highlights a bit. Please post the complete techs.

thats France in the BG and Switzerland is behind me

[Manos Papadomanolakis]

I would sharpen the bird more...beautiful pose,wing position!

[Simon Bennett]

Excellent banking pose. I'd be tempted to digitally disguise some of the French buildings.

[John Chardine]

Hi Joel- Very unusual to see a skua/jaeger with buildings behind! I like the image because of the pose, head angle and eye contact. I agree that a bit more sharpening would improve the presentation.

Could you say why you think it's a Pomarine Skua. The reason I ask is that I think it might be another species.

[Joel Brueziere]

Hi Joel- Very unusual to see a skua/jaeger with buildings behind! I like the image because of the pose, head angle and eye contact. I agree that a bit more sharpening would improve the presentation.

Could you say why you think it's a Pomarine Skua. The reason I ask is that I think it might be another species.

It's a Pomarine Skua.

Why you think it's not ?

You can check my obs and other pictures on
http://www.ornitho.ch/index.php?m_id=54&mid=11532

[John Chardine]

Sorry Joel, you seem to be misinterpreting my reply. Just really interested in the field marks for learning purposes. BPN is first and foremost an educational site so again would you care to say why you think this bird is a Pomarine Skua/Jaeger.

[Joel Brueziere]

Sorry Joel, you seem to be misinterpreting my reply. Just really interested in the field marks for learning purposes. BPN is first and foremost an educational site so again would you care to say why you think this bird is a Pomarine Skua/Jaeger. It's fine if you are not interested in sharing, I won't ask again.

Sorry too John I have misinterpreting your respond:
"The reason I ask is that I think it might be another species"
Because my bad "speak english" I cant detail why I think its a Pomarine skua.
Cheers

[John Chardine]

I checked your link Joel and the images there do indeed look like a Pomarine. I see the rounded, twisted central tail feathers characteristic of this species. I was confused with the image you posted because I could not see this field mark so clearly. Pomarines are also larger and "chunkier" than the other jaegers- almost like a Great Skua. This latter field mark does not show in the image. Having said all this, assuming that the posted bird is the same one as the images in the link, I now think your ID is correct. Does anyone see any other field mark that suggests a Pomarine?

PS sorry for all this ID talk, which should be done in the Avian ID forum.

[Dave Brown]

Hi All,

If we get this posted in the ID forum I can perhaps make a contribution towards the discussion.Jargers and Skuas can be nortoriously difficult to identify from single photos,unless they are in full breeding plumage with full length tails.

Good characters to look for on banking Jargers( Stercorarius Skuas) showing the upperparts ,are pattern of rump,bill shape and coloration(amount of pale vs dark in bill) and of course tail shape and size,amount of white showing in the primaries. All I'll say for now is Longtailed is easily eliminated using the features listed above,as well as overall structure. To explain fine details of separation between Pomarine and Acrtic Skua/Parasitic Jaeger could get lengthy and woulnd be better served in the ID forum.

Dave Brown

[Dave Brown]

Hi Guys,

I'll have something posted later tonight. Just wondering if there are any other photos of this bird. Joel I'm not saying your identification is wrong, but this is a really intriguing group of birds and any conversation regarding jaeger/skua id is a great learning experience. I don't claim to be an expert in skua/jaeger identification but I have seen numbers of both species, and still many go unidentified... more later.

[John Chardine]

Thanks Dave. Look forward to it. I agree- a great learning experience.

[Axel Hildebrandt]

Interesting discussion, what surprises me is that you can find this species in the middle of the continent. Is this their normal range?

[John Chardine]

I'm pretty sure a skua/jaeger in the middle of western Europe is a big rarity. However, they do show up on the Great Lakes in winter.

[Chris Sloan]

All I'll say for now is Longtailed is easily eliminated using the features listed above,as well as overall structure.

I don't think this is accurate. While true in most cases, I have seen subadult Long-tailed Jaegers in the field that were nearly impossible to separate from Parasitic until close photo study in the aftermath. One off Hatteras this past spring comes to mind; Steve Howell, who wrote a seminal article on aging and identifying jaegers and is writing a book on it, was not able to identify it as Long-tailed until he looked at the photos.

[Dave Brown]

Hi Chris and all,

I'd be interested to see those photos. However,in regards to the above image I do feel Lontailed can be ruled out pretty easily. This birds bill appears far longer and more strongly bi colored than i would expect to see in an adult( or very near adult) Longtailed Jaeger and look at those white primary flashes. Long tailed typicall shows white only in the outer two primaries and I've never knwn one to show upperwing flashes reminiscent of Catharacta Skuas( Greeat,South Polar etc). As well doesn't this bird appeared excessively unfirm brown above for Long tailed??

My more more thorough thoughts on this birds identification are forthcoming..

Dave Brown

PS I agree that all three species can be tricky under field conditions.My observations are often during fierce North easterly storms. Luckily that isn't the case here :)

[Chris Sloan]

I agree this is a pretty standard Pom, and certainly very easily separable from Long-tailed.

I only have one posted pic of that Long-tail that I mentioned:

http://www.chrissloanphotography.com...44109676_Adphf

I may have some more at home and will try to remember to check.

[Ilija Dukovski]

Interesting discussion, what surprises me is that you can find this species in the middle of the continent. Is this their normal range?

Axel, there are inland records of Jaegers in Vermont, lake Champlain. There have been about a dozen of records of Pomarine and Long-tailed. Very rare but it happens.

[Axel Hildebrandt]

Axel, there are inland records of Jaegers in Vermont, lake Champlain. There have been about a dozen of records of Pomarine and Long-tailed. Very rare but it happens.

Thanks, Ilija! I wouldn't mind seeing these up close myself sometime.

[Wayne Richardson]

Hi All

I acknowlerdge that immatures can be notoriously difficult to ID, but we are dealing with an adult in Joel's image.

My 1st impression was an adult Pomarine with a clipped tail. While the 'muscular' jizz alone (IMO) should immediately eliminate Long-tailed, the extent of 'primary flashes' & 2-toned bill would exclude both smaller skuas (jaegers) too.

An excellent guide to this family is 'Skuas & Jaegers' by Olsen & Larsson. Range maps in this book indicate there is a post-breeding migration route across Europe (Sep - Oct) from the Baltic to the Mediterranean.

Cheers: Wayne