Canon has announced EOS 7D

**arash_hazeghi** · 08-31-2009, 11:31 PM

review
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/

samples JPEG and RAW, enjoy!!!!
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E7D/E7DTHMB.HTM

Here is a full size sample from Rob Galbraith
http://ftp.robgalbraith.com/public_f...O800_Night.jpg

Here is an ISO 1600 sample from RAW
http://ftp.robgalbraith.com/public_f...600_Reggae.jpg

ISO 1600 good light
http://ftp.robgalbraith.com/public_f...SO1600_Dog.jpg

RG's comments about AF and IQ at high ISO are worth noting.

His full review is here http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10042-10239

looks like Canon has taken some of Nikon's approach to AF selection, including expansion and grouping of AF points, this is very effective when a tight grid of cross type AF sensors are present for tracking a bird against foliage, hope 7D will benefit from this in practice :)

More samples at RG website here's one ISO 400
http://ftp.robgalbraith.com/public_f...00_Thunder.jpg

**Markus Jais** · 09-01-2009, 12:07 AM

Does anyone know if the 7D will autofocus with f8, that is with a 4/500 + 2x? I couldn't find this in the announcement. Maybe I am just too blind to see it.

Markus

**Pao Dolina** · 09-01-2009, 03:53 AM

From what I saw on the rumors site it appears it does f/5.6 center AF. So I guess no f/8 AF. :( I was hoping it also did f/8 center AF so the 1-series may be able to focus f/11 center AF.

**Jay Gould** · 09-01-2009, 05:47 AM

It isn't a 1DX; however, it "appears" from RG's review to certainly top the 50D. At the suggested price it should be a good compliment/backup to the 1D4.

Axel Hildebrandt · 09-01-2009, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi

RG's comments about AF and IQ at high ISO are worth noting.

I agree, particularly this passage caught my attention: "If weighted against how minuscule its sensor's pixels are, image quality is astounding. Put in charge of the 7D's development, however, we'd have chosen something like a 12MP sensor with better high ISO performance and richer low ISO files."

Michael Pancier · 09-01-2009, 09:05 AM

they have it for preorder at amazon for $ 1699 for body only. Not too bad. I like the fact they've improved on the a/f sensor. I so hate the 9 point.

**Jim Fenton** · 09-01-2009, 11:23 AM

I was going to look hard at this body and may still try it.

Images I've seen on line today appear really lifeless to my eyes at least and RG's comments regarding AF possible deficiencies boggle my mind. How in the world could Canon not give them something that wasn't dead nuts perfect in the AF department? (Granted, nothing is perfect but I can't fathom how they'd give him anything that even hinted at a potential AF issue...BETA or not)

While I'd need to compare them side by side, the D300 / 300s looks to have a much wider frame coverage with respect to AF points?

**Charles Glatzer** · 09-01-2009, 12:19 PM

Jim,

With all due respect.

I do not care to discuss this at length, nor start flame wars...but, I have shot side by side with the guys who write the manuals for Nikon, they do in fact have a few AF issues s well.

Chas

**Doug Brown** · 09-01-2009, 12:38 PM

I've shot BIF extensively with some very good Nikon shooters, and I wouldn't say that they had a noticeably higher keeper rate than I did with my Canon gear. The 7D has an all-new AF system, and it takes time to figure out how best to utilize new tools. The 7D is getting very favorable early 'reviews' and I'll probably get one to replace my 50D. I suspect that the AF will be quite good, as I've had no real issues with either the 50D or the Mark III in that regard. I'll post my opinions and images in the coming months.

**Joerg Rockenberger** · 09-01-2009, 01:14 PM

There is some good info at the Canon Digital Learning Center about the new 7D AF system. Maybe RG's choice of Zone AF for a running object was just a poor choice. See the end of the following page:

http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/control...rticleTypeID=5

JR

**Milan V** · 09-01-2009, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Markus Jais

Does anyone know if the 7D will autofocus with f8, that is with a 4/500 + 2x? I couldn't find this in the announcement. Maybe I am just too blind to see it.

Markus

Unfortunatelly, no. It will work only with f5.6.

**Charles Glatzer** · 09-01-2009, 01:38 PM

This is a big deal for the bird, wildlife and sports shooter. I missed it when switching from Nikon years ago, and I am very happy to see it is now on Canon cameras.

Automatic AF point selection in AI Servo AF mode: This is where things get interesting. All previous EOS SLRs, film or digital, have required the photographer to begin tracking a subject with the center AF point when using Automatic AF point selection. Once the subject has begun to be tracked, the camera would allow the outer AF points to continue to track its movement if the subject or camera moved so that it was now off-center.

But with the new EOS 7D, for the first time in a Canon EOS camera, the user can pre-select any of the 19 AF points and use that as a starting point to begin tracking his or her subject. If the subject then moves away from that point, the camera will continue to follow it. Another great new feature: if any surrounding AF points are actively tracking subject movement, once the initial AF point has “passed-off” the subject to them, these new points appear in the finder, so you always know what the camera is doing.

This means we can compose in-camera from the get-go, by initially choosing the correct AF POINT when in AIS.

Does anyone know how the histogram is depicted on the rear LCD, and are the edges now discernible in bright light?

Chas

**arash_hazeghi** · 09-01-2009, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Axel Hildebrandt

I agree, particularly this passage caught my attention: "If weighted against how minuscule its sensor's pixels are, image quality is astounding. Put in charge of the 7D's development, however, we'd have chosen something like a 12MP sensor with better high ISO performance and richer low ISO files."

I love it, he tries to be positive and speak highly of the camera, but he manages to fit in his bottom-line comments as well :D in the past Canon's policy 20D/40D was to deliver great IQ but less features with mid-range cameras, now the mid-range has all the features, I guess the IQ has to be reserved for 1 series and 5D MKII to keep their sales up :)

**Jim Fenton** · 09-01-2009, 02:50 PM

Believe me...I'd be thrilled to death if this 18MP machine has great IQ and a great AF system...especially since I own Nikon glass and could financially move to this system fairly easily.

Nobody's AF is perfect. I tried a MkIII for a week and personally, I found the AF for my BIF work far below that of the D300 I was shooting as my primary......I am honestly hoping that the 7D is a whole lot better. My current 300s AF is yet another step better so the 7D AF would really have to shine to give me adequate reason to switch to that body.

I just can't fathom why Canon would give RG any even minute reason to post something other than glowing results given what they've been through with AF systems in the past couple of years.

I could care less which black box my film resides in as long as it has features that function to a level which allows me to do what I am attempting to do.

**arash_hazeghi** · 09-01-2009, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by John Rain

There is some good info at the Canon Digital Learning Center about the new 7D AF system. Maybe RG's choice of Zone AF for a running object was just a poor choice. See the end of the following page:

http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/control...rticleTypeID=5

JR

Thanks for posting this,I am a bit confused though, based on the description this mode should actually be best for BIF and tracking a running object.

Zone AF has the potential to be especially useful for action photographers, shooting subjects ranging from track and field to birds in flight. Again, it’s particularly adept at picking one nearest subject from a range of subjects, like a cluster of runners at a track meet, and putting sharpest focus on that which is nearest.

This should be the ideal case for bird against foliage since
1) you have a broad AF area with equal priority between points so as long as one of the AF points catches the bird it will lock ( in expansion mode priority is given to selected point so you still have to put that on the bird in a somewhat contrasty area)

2) closest subject priority should eliminate chance of intermittent lock on the BG.

The only drawback is that if sensor is not calibrated perfectly or if the servo loop has overshoot it will result in front focus. I look forward to learning more about the new AF.

**Pao Dolina** · 09-01-2009, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Doug Brown

I've shot BIF extensively with some very good Nikon shooters, and I wouldn't say that they had a noticeably higher keeper rate than I did with my Canon gear. The 7D has an all-new AF system, and it takes time to figure out how best to utilize new tools. The 7D is getting very favorable early 'reviews' and I'll probably get one to replace my 50D. I suspect that the AF will be quite good, as I've had no real issues with either the 50D or the Mark III in that regard. I'll post my opinions and images in the coming months.

Hi Dough I'm in a similar fix. Are you selling your 50d for 7d or keeping your 50d and getting the 7d. I'm considering selling my 40d but I'll suffer a 50% depreciation. :eek:

**Jay Gould** · 09-01-2009, 05:02 PM

I was just called by my Adorama salesperson. They are indicating that the 7D will not be available until the end of October. I have preordered with a credit card preauthorization in order to be on the list for the first cameras received.

I have ordered the 7D with the kit lens 28 - 235; an extra $200 for the lens. I am not sure if I will keep the lens; I figure I can always sell it for the $200 on eBay since it is supposed to list separately for $500.

Interesting that the batteries and charger are the same for the 7D and the 5D2 which means carrying less batteries since they share.

Also ordered the battery grip.

Now the waiting game begins; I don't think Canon is going to announce the 1D4 prior to shipping the 7D; but who knows .................

Michael Pancier · 09-01-2009, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Jay Gould

I was just called by my Adorama salesperson. They are indicating that the 7D will not be available until the end of October. I have preordered with a credit card preauthorization in order to be on the list for the first cameras received.

I have ordered the 7D with the kit lens 28 - 235; an extra $200 for the lens. I am not sure if I will keep the lens; I figure I can always sell it for the $200 on eBay since it is supposed to list separately for $500.

Interesting that the batteries and charger are the same for the 7D and the 5D2 which means carrying less batteries since they share.

Also ordered the battery grip.

Now the waiting game begins; I don't think Canon is going to announce the 1D4 prior to shipping the 7D; but who knows .................

same batteries huh? oh well, looks like I"ll have a bunch of extra chargers and batteries to get rid of with my 50d and I'll need to pick up some more of those new ones which are pricey.

**Jay Gould** · 09-01-2009, 06:00 PM

Hi, the 7D is now on Canon's website - no manual yet. Reconfirmed that the 7D battery is the LP-E6.

This is a US company selling the LP-E6 for $65 instead of $100: http://www.onsale.com/ttsvr/s?includ...anon+lp-e6&rch

Since the batteries are the same, would you be comfortable with six total? Two in each grip and only two as an additional backup; is it overkill to carry eight batteries (I will be away for seven months)?

Life is fun; ain't it!! :D

**Jamie Strickland** · 09-01-2009, 06:12 PM

I preordered this morning at 1:30 am from amazon :) I cant wait to test out the AF system

I was hoping the 19 points would be spread more but oh well you cant have everything I guess

Ákos Lumnitzer · 09-01-2009, 06:19 PM

If it cannot AF at f/8 then they should have called it a 60D! Canon can stick this where the sun don't shine AFAIAC. Waste of time IMHO. :D

**Jamie Strickland** · 09-01-2009, 06:29 PM

obviously they need to keep some advantages for the 1D, I don't envision them ever heaving it outside the 1D

I am not to worried about that part I very rarely use a 2x TC anyway

**Ed Cordes** · 09-01-2009, 06:38 PM

I just pre ordered a 7D from Hunts. Apparently I am among the first 10. RE AF at f8 - I believe Canon will always reserve this feature for the Pro line of 1 series bodies. For $1700 the 7D will not be a pro body, but it will be a high level prosumer-semi pro tool.

**Jay Gould** · 09-01-2009, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Ákos Lumnitzer

If it cannot AF at f/8 then they should have called it a 60D! Canon can stick this where the sun don't shine AFAIAC. Waste of time IMHO. :D

Ouch!! What if they called it a 60D? Mate, would that make you happy? Does the label really matter? The 7D does have - on paper - a lot of cool new features. :D

**Jay Gould** · 09-01-2009, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Ed Cordes

I just pre ordered a 7D from Hunts. Apparently I am among the first 10. RE AF at f8 - I believe Canon will always reserve this feature for the Pro line of 1 series bodies. For $1700 the 7D will not be a pro body, but it will be a high level prosumer-semi pro tool.

Ed, did they give you an estimated delivery date?

**Ed Cordes** · 09-01-2009, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Jay Gould

Ed, did they give you an estimated delivery date?

No, Jay. I anticipate end of Sept or early Oct. For my needs as long as I get it around Dec I will be happy. BTW a $500 deposit held it. The rest billed when shipped. I did not order over the Internet. I called them and they were very helpful.

**phillane** · 09-01-2009, 11:28 PM

I find the features of camera intriguing however I will wait for some additional field reports before plunking any of my cash down. The ability to cluster AF sensory points together seems similar to the 1D series cameras however what any manufacturer claims on paper and delivers in the field are sometimes two different things. As far as AF @ F8 it's no surprise that this camera has an AF index at F5.6. The size of the mirror box versus the AF sensory electronics that are not in the viewfinder simply won't fit in that size mirror box. What does tick me off is not having integration of the battery from the earlier cameras eg.30D,40D and 50D. Design a new battery = make more $$$$Money$$$. P.S. My 1DMKII can only use one the AF sensor which is the center one at F8, so I don't under see what all the concern is about.

Nuff said

**colincarter** · 09-02-2009, 05:19 AM

Originally Posted by phillane

I find the features of camera intriguing however I will wait for some additional field reports before plunking any of my cash down. The ability to cluster AF sensory points together seems similar to the 1D series cameras however what any manufacturer claims on paper and delivers in the field are sometimes two different things. As far as AF @ F8 it's no surprise that this camera has an AF index at F5.6. The size of the mirror box versus the AF sensory electronics that are not in the viewfinder simply won't fit in that size mirror box. What does tick me off is not having integration of the battery from the earlier cameras eg.30D,40D and 50D. Design a new battery = make more $$$$Money$$$. P.S. My 1DMKII can only use one the AF sensor which is the center one at F8, so I don't under see what all the concern is about.

Nuff said

Nikon dont limit the D300 to F5.6.

My 500F4 Af's with the 1.4x, 1.7x and 2x tc's on my D300. Granted its not as quick as my D3's but it works very effectively and accurately. The 1.7x works very well even tracking fast flying birds which is a major bonus.

Canon have always scuppered the Af systems in their consumer cams in one way or another.

I was with canon for 20 years owning all their digital DSLr's upto and including the 1dmk3 and 300,400,500 and 600 Image stabilised tele's. I switched when the D300 and D3 were launched as my 1dmk3's were basically £3000 door stops, the af was so bad even after numerour returns to Canon.

**John Chardine** · 09-02-2009, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by phillane

I find the features of camera intriguing however I will wait for some additional field reports before plunking any of my cash down. The ability to cluster AF sensory points together seems similar to the 1D series cameras however what any manufacturer claims on paper and delivers in the field are sometimes two different things. As far as AF @ F8 it's no surprise that this camera has an AF index at F5.6. The size of the mirror box versus the AF sensory electronics that are not in the viewfinder simply won't fit in that size mirror box. What does tick me off is not having integration of the battery from the earlier cameras eg.30D,40D and 50D. Design a new battery = make more $$$$Money$$$. P.S. My 1DMKII can only use one the AF sensor which is the center one at F8, so I don't under see what all the concern is about.

Nuff said

Apparently the 7D batteries are the "smart" ones they use on the 5DmkII so not an entirely new battery system.

**Doug Brown** · 09-02-2009, 10:14 AM

I pre-ordered mine from Hunt's today, along with a couple of UDMA 16 GB CF cards and a spare battery. Regarding the battery, I for one am happy that they upgraded it. Backwards compatibility can really weigh you down. The 50D chewed through a BP-511 battery in no time; it was quite frustrating.

Michael Pancier · 09-02-2009, 11:18 AM

I'm on the list at Hunt's too. I love the fact this new camera has that overlay technology in the viewfinder such as adding grid lines. So for once, I don't have to buy a replacement focusing screen to give me the grid lines.

**Rocky Sharwell** · 09-02-2009, 12:19 PM

I would be inclined to avoid the after market LP-E6 batteries I have seen so far. The ones I have seen say they will not show up in the on camera strength indicator. I have also seen some that come with their own charger as they apparently would not work on the Canon chargers...

**phillane** · 09-02-2009, 01:03 PM

A higher capacity battery is fine. However retrofit of older batteries would have been a smart move, it's all about the money not capacity. Canon is simply moving in a similar direction as Sony by building in obsolescence in new DSLR's bodies. For those of you who can remember it took 4-6 years before a Film camera was replaced with a newer model. Now camera manufacturers want a year turn over like computers.

john crookes · 09-02-2009, 01:44 PM

I do not know what the fuss is all about as the images given in the links are so full of noise as to be useless imo and this is with Noise Reduction applied

Does anyone have some images at a lower ISO that show better IQ than those posted

I would hold off a bit

**Doug Brown** · 09-02-2009, 01:56 PM

Imaging resource has a nice feature that allows you to compare images taken by two different cameras. I'd say the 7D holds its own pretty well against the 5D Mark II at ISO 1600.

john crookes · 09-02-2009, 02:25 PM

Doug,

Thanks for the refere4nce to the site .

I just compared the 7d with both the 5dmII and the nikon d300 not the 300s
and imo the noise issue is a justified problem even at ISO 400 there is a noticeable noise difference
between the 7d and the other two cameras'

even at ISO 200 when you blow the images up at the site there is noise in the shadows of the 7d

I believe that insted of going for more megapixel sensors that at this range I rather haver simular quality with a lot less noise as shown by the D300 and the D300s is suppose to be a little better than the 300

at a simular price to the 7d

**arash_hazeghi** · 09-02-2009, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Doug Brown

Imaging resource has a nice feature that allows you to compare images taken by two different cameras. I'd say the 7D holds its own pretty well against the 5D Mark II at ISO 1600.

But those are JPEGs they don't apply to us RAW shooters :) JPEGs from 50D ain't bad either, RAW is a different story ;)
Here is one RAW sample sample from RG at ISO 400 good light that has me worried, let's wait until DPP 3.7 is out so we can massage those CR2s :D

**arash_hazeghi** · 09-02-2009, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by john crookes

I do not know what the fuss is all about as the images given in the links are so full of noise as to be useless imo and this is with Noise Reduction applied

Does anyone have some images at a lower ISO that show better IQ than those posted

I would hold off a bit

John, RG has some samples on his site that have been converted from RAW using DPP 3.7 they have some chroma noise reduction but it is not heavy NR like JPEG, it's pretty much the best you can get from this camera

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/mul...=7-10042-10239

I am sure some say it is too much noise and some say it is fantastic, so decide for yourself :D

**Jamie Strickland** · 09-02-2009, 02:37 PM

they do look fairly grainy to me, I am hoping that its just the pre production cameras and the official release wont be like that

the images seem to be all over the place so I am not sure what to think

**phillane** · 09-02-2009, 03:07 PM

John

IMHO you are spot on, many don't realize the chip is only part of the equation. The firmware also plays a decisive factor in noise reduction or elimination. Nikon's firmware developers have their act together on this score as evidenced by the D300. Canon needs to step up to the plate instead of pumping up mega pixels an redesigning batteries. Although I presently use Canon I have also owned and used Nikon as well, both make a good mouse trap however Canon's recent quality is slipping as evidenced by my recent purchase of a EF300 F2.8 IS USM lens. She aint what se used to be!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Flavio Rose · 09-02-2009, 03:39 PM

RG's comments on AF and his sample images (especially Thunder and Bird) leave me dismayed. For a fair comparison I've looked at the images at a 75% linear reduction so the pixel density is about same as on my 10 megapixel XTi. The ISO 400 still doesn't look any better to my eyes than what I get from the XTi.

I try to rationalize the AF comments by saying that RG didn't like the 1D Mark III's AF, and Canon would never give a non-1D camera AF better than the current 1D Mark X, so it was hard to expect that he could like the 7D's AF. Still...

I am mystified why RG's ISO 400 images look perceptibly worse than imaging-resource's, which were the first ones I looked at. I realize that imaging-resource exposes to the right in its studio setting, while RG may not have done so in outdoors shooting. One can only hope cynically that maybe Canon sent him a prototype with bum AF and a bum sensor (a) as a reward for his past comments and (b) in the hope he'd write bad things about the 7D that would prove false.

**Kaustubh Deshpande** · 09-02-2009, 03:59 PM

Here's a conspiracy theory...Canon wants noise at high iso so that everyone will be forced to shoot at low iso and hence forced to pay premium on image-stabilised lenses :-) Folks who want to freeze motion will buy 1D mark iv when it comes out :-) win-win situation.

Essentially, Canon is saying if you want good quality at iso over 400, u will have to cough out more than 2K for a camera.

Other than the 18Mp and noise concerns because of it, I loved all the innovations in this beast. Its like an emperor of all aps-c cameras.

KD

**John Chardine** · 09-02-2009, 05:55 PM

Attached Images

john crookes · 09-02-2009, 06:48 PM

Like I said IMO and IMO the samples you show are noiser in the shadows for the 7d look at the whites by the button holes

The 7d is full of noise with these samples IMO

**Joerg Rockenberger** · 09-02-2009, 06:49 PM

Rob Galbraith updated his review of the 7D with new pictures. He declares the IQ of the 7D as very good but I look at some of his images (e.g. the frog or the gull at ISO800/400 respectively) and I am frankly somewhat shocked (and disappointed) by the noise levels. Curious as how others here would describe those images.

No updated news yet on the AF. JR

**John Chardine** · 09-02-2009, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by john crookes

Like I said IMO and IMO the samples you show are noiser in the shadows for the 7d look at the whites by the button holes

The 7d is full of noise with these samples IMO

I see what you mean but I was looking at the deep shadows below and to the left of the button. Like I said you can see what you want to see.

john crookes · 09-02-2009, 07:28 PM

I see that and that is in the deep shadows and i also see the nikon has better edge detail in those deep shadows as the canon 7d starts to lose detail all together there

here is a studio still life at iso 200 and notice that the 7d stills has noise in the shadows

also the details in the linens are better in the nikon d300 IMO

same as above canon on left and nikon on right

**Doug Brown** · 09-02-2009, 08:05 PM

Attached Images

john crookes · 09-02-2009, 08:19 PM

ok here is a comparison of the 7d vs the 50d that it is replacing and supose to be superior to I see better quality in the 50d and more noise in the 7d and this is at ISO 200

**John Chardine** · 09-02-2009, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Doug Brown

While the 50D is no Mark III when it comes to noise, you can get perfectly usable images with a minimum of post-processing. For illustration purposes, this is one of my early 50D images shot at high ISO. I did some RAW adjustments in LR and then sharpened the bird and noise reduced the BG in PS. No noise reduction was performed on the bird. Total processing time of 5 minutes. I don't think any of us expects masterpieces at ISO 3200, but I'm not ashamed of this type of output. The 50D does a pretty good job of preserving detail at high ISO and that's what I care about most when shooting high ISO. The early reviews state that the 7D is a step up from the 50D in terms of noise. I'm not suggesting that I wouldn't have preferred a 12 megapixel sensor, but if they do a good job with 18 megapixels and throw in some compelling new features, I'm game.

Canon 50D, 400mm, f/5.6, 1/500, ISO 3200, hand held

I remember that beautiful image Doug. Pretty amazing at ISO 3200 (try that with film!). I continue to get excellent results with the 50D at 800 and 1600, although of course prefer 400 or below if I can get away with it, and I wouldn't expect much different from a 7D. Look forward to hearing what you think of it when you get your hands on one.

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Canon has announced EOS 7D

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