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Thread: Burchell's Sandgrouse.

  1. #1
    Dave Barnes
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    Default Burchell's Sandgrouse.

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    Help requested.
    I struggled to get the camera to focus on these guys. They approached from above the horizon and dipped down below the BG just before landing.
    The camera lost focus and struggled to pic them up before they landed. They do blend in with the BG and that is what I wanted to capture.
    Any tips/ suggestions/techniques will be appreciated.
    I got this one ok I think. (a bit of noise to sort out still)
    Camera Model Name Canon EOS-1D Mark III
    Lens EF500mm f/4L IS USM +1.4x
    Av (Aperture Value) 5.6
    ISO Speed 400
    Tv (Shutter Speed) 1/2000
    Metering Mode Evaluative Metering
    Exposure Compensation +1

  2. #2
    Forum Participant christopher galeski's Avatar
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    nice shot Dave,like how the BG blends with the colors of the bird,like the comp,the head is a tad soft on my screen,but good image.thanks.

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    lovely shot , nice eye contact , and killer BG
    Loved the way bird is placed in frame , head can take some sharpning IMHO
    TFS

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    Nice one Dave !! Was this in the Kalahari ? The only reason I could think that it would not focus would be the 1.4x converter. I don't like any converter too much and have found that all of them tend to perform a little worse than straight lens to camera. I would maybe just clean the contacts on the converter and the lens ... but of course, it could be something else as well. Anyway, the head is a tad soft, but the bird, the angle and the colours still make this an awesome image in my opinion. Cheers for now ...

  5. #5
    Dave Barnes
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    Sloppy PP corrected. Thanks guys hope this is a bit better.
    Vic yes this was in the Kalahari.
    Vic it only happened when the BG changed quickly, otherwise it was fine. The camera lost it when the contrast with the BG changed.
    That I understand, the question is how to get focus once lost.
    Last edited by Dave Barnes; 08-30-2009 at 04:46 AM.

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    Lifetime Member Loukie Viljoen's Avatar
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    Dave can you check where your focus points are? Ring me on 0823385677 I will el you my experiences. loukie

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    Lifetime Member Stu Bowie's Avatar
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    Hi Dave, hope you had a good trip. Super banking angle, and love the flying posture. It looks like the focus point was at the back towards the feet. Killer complimentary BG. Your repost does look better.

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Lots of tips and questions.... Were you using the central sensor only?

    Is this a crop? (I would think that you cropped at least a bit from the back.

    If yes, can you post the original capture?

    Tip: always use the central sensor in these situations.

    Tip: practice, concentrate as hard as you can, and take lots of images....

    Tip: if you lose focus, let up on the shutter button and then try to re-aquire. Jime Neiger calls this "bumping the focus."

    I look forward to hearing from others as I too have difficulty in similar situations.

    For more on this topic, check out the second image in today's blog post "A Good Morning at the Office/Nickerson Beach" here:

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  9. #9
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    BTW, I love the image, the bird is amazing as is the BKGR. Perhaps a bit of selective sharpening of the face with a contrast mask and a bit of Eye Doctor work would increase the apparent sharpness. Framing as presented in perfect.
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  10. #10
    Lifetime Member Loukie Viljoen's Avatar
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    Yes Artie the tips you gave are just what I wanted to tell Dave, I found this with the vultures at GC everybody says for flight use "ring of fire" focusing, but you very easily pick up focus on the mountain in the BG, not on the bird, use the central sensor and PRACTICE, the more the better.

  11. #11
    Dave Barnes
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    Thanks Guys.
    This is one that did keep the bird in focus and Stu you are right the focus point was further back on the bird.

    Arthur I was using the centre point.
    My A1 servo tracking sensitivity is set at 1 or 2. Low but to keep focus when achieved.(did not work)
    Tracking method is set to main focus point priority.
    Focus search on.
    AF assist with surrounding point enabled.
    The camera tracked the birds well untill the BG changed. (sky to land)
    The birds were flying directly towards me. (the most difficult to track, I think)
    Once I lost focus I could not get it again even with pumping the shutter button.
    Lens was set on 10M to infinity.

    Arthur unfortunatly I have sent the OOF images to computer heaven in frustration.
    I sould have checked the focus points.

    I think my basic method is OK and only struggle when the BG changes.
    Last edited by Dave Barnes; 08-30-2009 at 09:27 AM.

  12. #12
    Gal Shon
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    If only the focus were more precise, it would be a killer image.
    I like the light, angle of view, flying pose and BG.
    What I'm doing in flight photography, is that I'm working with both of my eyes open.
    It take a bit of practice and its not prevent camera / focus failure, but it realy helps relocate the bird and obtain focus.

  13. #13
    Dave Barnes
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    Arthur here is a shot taken just before I loose focus.
    As soon as the middle bird passes the horizon line I loose focus.
    Similar to your silhouette issue.
    Maby I should have pre-focused.
    Last edited by Dave Barnes; 08-30-2009 at 10:25 AM.

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Several comments on the posts above.

    1- I almost never do well with 45-point AAFPS but do turn to it on occasion when the bird's flight paths are erratic....
    2-One of my students, Monte Brown uses a 1D MIII with 45 point for flight with the 100-400 and almost every image is sharp on the eye. The next time we are together I need to try his rig for a while and compare.
    3-If the birds are flying a relatively consistent flight path turning Focus Search to Off is the way to go. That should lessen the likelihood of the AF searching for the BKGR.
    4-Nikon users often state that their cameras handle this situation well but whenever I am standing next to one in the field in these situations they are also frustrated....
    5-The problem as most folks realize is much worse when contrast is low.
    6-Once focus is acquired you only lose focus when the sensor falls off the bird. This more skilled and more practiced folk will always do better. Please do not be tempted to include me in the former group!
    7-I have never found any measurable or concrete differences with the different settings.
    8-Using the follow and pre-focus techniques that I talk about in the MIII UG and then creating only one or two images as the bird enters the optimal zone still works well (in lieu of trying to track the bird all the way on its way in...). I used that technique for the skimmer sunrise image. Let's call it the "Last second focus trick."
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  15. #15
    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Last thought. I do believe that the originally posted image can be sharpened well enough to sell.
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

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  16. #16
    Dave Barnes
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    Thanks Arthur, your time and comments/suggestions are greatly valued.
    I take note of them all.
    I will do a bit of selective sharpening of the face with a contrast mask and a bit of Eye Doctor work to increase the apparent sharpness.
    Last edited by Dave Barnes; 08-30-2009 at 11:31 AM.

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    Dave I am a Nikon shooter so I can not offer help in the Canon side but the kind of situation that you are describing is very familiar for me because I have experienced exactly the same with my D2X. Usually I used to photograph birds in flight only with the central AF sensor but with the D300, the AF is better and each time I use more and more sensors (of course, the addition of the 1,4XTC affects the AF performance and the ability of readquire focus with Bg like the one in your image).
    Regarding the sandgrouse, I think that it is not tack sharp but sharp enought considering the difficulty of getting that kind of images (with a fast bird flying directly towards the lens).

    The Bg is fantastic and I like the light and bird pose a lot :-)

  18. #18
    Axel Hildebrandt
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    Great incoming pose, complementing BG and the repost looks even better.

    One thing I try to avoid is to half-press the shutter button when the BG is about to change and set the distance to about 20m which is about the best starting distance when they approach at least in my case. If the birds get close anyway, removing the TC helps, too.

  19. #19
    BPN Member Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    well I can't really add to this interesting discussion can I? ;)
    Dave, my 1000D's AF is as "entry-level" as entry-level gets so I only use the centre point but with 1.5fps I find that I have to try my luck with pressing the shutter at the correct time and hope for a sharp one. :D
    I'd love to have a try one day with these big guns.

    I like the image very much and agree that the head is sharp enough for some selective sharpening to really help take it over the top.
    Morkel Erasmus

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    Same thing happened to me at Mankwe when I was trying to get shots of a Tern. The moment he moved in front of the mountain I lost focus on him. This happened a number of times and I was talking Setswana loud & clear.

    The latest upgrade was supposed to have sorted this problem. I have not taken my MK III in yet and ascribed the problem to the old AF issue. Have you taken your's in for the upgrade?

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    Superb incoming shot Dave. Repost is an improvement. Thanks for sharing this.

  22. #22
    Dave Barnes
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    Thanks Juan, Morkel, Gerrie and Dave.
    Gerrie I have the latest upgrade.

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