SOC: O'Reilly's Rainforest Retreat

[Jay Gould]

Hi, here is the first of what I intend to be many "SOC"s - this is straight out of the camera; the only processing is what the camera did or what LR did to create this image (output sharpening was turned off); no voluntary :eek: post processing.

A CPL was used.

For the Australian's in the "know" this is at Picnic Rock on the Elabana Falls trail. I have several images like this; I was experimenting with no filters, a PL, and a warming filter alone and in various combinations, f/stops and SS.

Camera: 40D
Capture date/time: 18 Mar 09; 11:06am
Light condition:
Lens: EF 24-105 f/4
Focal length: 24
Extender: none
Tube: none
Flash/Comp: none
ISO: 100
Exp Prog: Av
Speed: 1.5 sec
Aperture: f/22
Exp Comp: + 1/2
Metering: Evaluative
WB: Auto
AF Drive: One Shot
Tripod: yes

All C&Cs gratefully appreciated!

[Katherine Enns]

Jay, what a pretty spot. If I didn't pay attention to the floristics I would say that was British Columbia. I like the concept of SOC, because, well, I dont know what I am doing, really. I guess this is supposed to give us incentive to get it right the first time?? :)

Kat

[Desmond Chan]

Jay, what a pretty spot. If I didn't pay attention to the floristics I would say that was British Columbia.

Haha...

So, basically it's about how to shoot this scene, right?

I think I would shoot from a lower and narrower perspective. Perhaps step to my left a bit, too.

I think this scene could use some sunbeams.

[Jay Gould]

Thanks Des, yes - SOC - is basically about how to shoot the scene both from a compositional and from a settings point of view. If I stepped to my left I would have been in the water; the tripod legs were as low as I could get them and the center post was horizontal. Other than bracketing and learning HDR or PS blending I am not sure what I could have done about the significant shade on the LHS. To open up for a correct LH exposure would have over exposed the RHS.

[Desmond Chan]

If I stepped to my left I would have been in the water; the tripod legs were as low as I could get them and the center post was horizontal.

Of course you were there and I wasn't. So I perhaps I should have added right off the bat: "If possible..." ? :)

Other than bracketing and learning HDR or PS blending I am not sure what I could have done about the significant shade on the LHS. To open up for a correct LH exposure would have over exposed the RHS.

Even back in the old days, people did dodge and burn, merge multiple shots into one photo in their darkrooms. These days, many do it with software such as photoshop.

The other thing you could consider is to use neutral density filter. Or, do the cliche and use long exposure to get some creamy looking water. If the tripod can't go any lower, just lay down on your stomach, if it can be done comfortably that is. Of course you can also go back and shoot at some other time when the light is more interesting.

I personally find the lighting there not very interesting. Instead of shooting the big picture, I would try shooting what's called inner landscape, i.e., find a small, interesting part of the scene and see if I could get some good images out of it. In fact, according to an UK landscape photographer, for most people, shooting inner landscape is easier to do.

But, let's see what other landscapes experts say.

[Kerry Perkins]

Hi Jay, glad to see you posting images! Would suggest that you post at the full resolution allowed, which is 1024 horizontal or 800 vertical, whichever comes first.

Nobody will dispute that fact that you should aspire to get the best possible image in the camera, but even the most expensive digital cameras need a bit of processing - especially if you are shooting in RAW, which I suspect you are. Without any sharpening applied this image has an overall softness to it. You need to add some sharpening somewhere, and most elect to do it in post. This is not "cheating", but simply a step that is required in the digital workflow.

This image contains more dynamic range than the camera can deal with, so it ends up looking too "contrasty" to my eye. The dark areas are too dark and the bright areas are too bright. Composition-wise, the area of most interest is in the center of the image, which is not optimal. A closer view of the little waterfall, moved to one side of the image, and consistent lighting would make this image much stronger.

I like the use of the slow shutter speed to give the water that flowing look. Looking forward to more images from your travels!

[Jay Gould]

Hi Biker - how goes the trip? Have you returned/when do you return to home base?

Would suggest that you post at the full resolution allowed, which is 1024 horizontal or 800 vertical, whichever comes first.

I clearly do not understand the export process!! In the next "reply" I have posted an image from Explorer showing a series of export "numbers" so that I can learn what I am doing wrong.

The image I am uploading in this repost is 824x800; quality 30; ppi 240; 198kb!

Nobody will dispute that fact that you should aspire to get the best possible image in the camera, but even the most expensive digital cameras need a bit of processing - especially if you are shooting in RAW, which I suspect you are.

I am shooting RAW and other than using LR to sharpen the image both in the Develop module and ouotput sharpening, I am not ready for PS sharpening ;). I am not that far in my lessons.

Without any sharpening applied this image has an overall softness to it. You need to add some sharpening somewhere, and most elect to do it in post. This is not "cheating", but simply a step that is required in the digital workflow.

I agree that it is not cheating and I have no problem with PP when I learn how to do it. However, if I apply PP to the first image in what I am hoping will be an active SOC subforum once others are willing to dip their toes in the SOC goo, the more PP the less the experts are able to help the newbies.

This image contains more dynamic range than the camera can deal with, so it ends up looking too "contrasty" to my eye. The dark areas are too dark and the bright areas are too bright. Composition-wise, the area of most interest is in the center of the image, which is not optimal. A closer view of the little waterfall, moved to one side of the image, and consistent lighting would make this image much stronger.

Having received some education pertaining to the SOC image, I am providing a repost of how I would crop the image and applying some LR PP. Hopefully by next month I will be doing basic CS4 PP.

I like the use of the slow shutter speed to give the water that flowing look. Looking forward to more images from your travels!

Thanks for the comments, and thanks for playing the game. You are one of the members (and there are others) that at least for me has gone over the top in your constant comments and it is greatly appreciated. To the extent that the "teachers" have the time, the students will be able to at least in a limited sense discuss the posted image and learn from the discussion. I enjoy playing the BPN critique game with you!

I am going to start posting a lot of images from my travels both here and in the travel forum. I should have thought of this approach sooner while I have been recuperating from the three "sawbones" activities. :)

[Jay Gould]

After seeing the repost I believe that a pano would be better and I have cropped it down to just below the last dead branch in the center tree. More importantly, and the reason I left it as is was to discuss how to export and stay within the 200kb limitation.

The image shows the repost at different sizes and export qualities. I go through this process almost every time I post an image trying to make sure that the size is below the 200kb. That is why I have generally started at 800 x 800 with a 76 quality and reduced from that point.

All suggestions how to properly export at 1024 x 800 and stay within the 200kb limitation greatly appreciated.

[Jenny Wren]

Hi Jay,

I am probably going to shoot my foot off here, and being a complete novice myself in all things photographic and PP but I'll jump right in...

There is an excellent post:- http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...read.php?t=839 I think you may need PS to do it though.

I like your second, cropped version better than the original. I think it is a much more powerful image. I also like your idea of SOC. However, I don't think I'll be posting any in that fashion. I have always thought I would like to be a good (brilliant, even) photographer rather than a brilliant Photoshop Tech.



JW

[Lance Peters]

Hi Jay - Getting it mostly right in the camera will save you loads of time trying to fix things later - ok, SO here we have a landscape shot - IMHO with landscapes its a lot about getting enough dynamic range to cover the scene you want to shoot - Dark areas VS bright area's, You want detail in the darks and the bright area's to be in check also.
A lot of the time this will only be possible with a Graduated Neutral Density filter - Roman swears by them and I would have to agree - it basically darkens a part of the scene thus bringing in into the range that the camera can capture.
I find spot metering and the zone system quite useful in these situations (After all -Ansell did usethis system for precisely this) it will help you determine whether variuos parts os the scene are within range and then you can figure out how many stops of ND filter you need.
Another thing to consider with this type of shot is - what you are trying to achieve, is the focus of the scene the overall scene or the waterfall - A slower shutter speed will give the water a silky feel.

[Jay Gould]

"

Hi Jay,

I am probably going to shoot my foot off here, and being a complete novice myself in all things photographic and PP but I'll jump right in...

There is an excellent post:- http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...read.php?t=839 I think you may need PS to do it though.

I like your second, cropped version better than the original. I think it is a much more powerful image. I also like your idea of SOC. However, I don't think I'll be posting any in that fashion. I have always thought I would like to be a good (brilliant, even) photographer rather than a brilliant Photoshop Tech. JW

Hi Jenny, thanks for the reference. It pertains to exporting from PS; I would like to learn if I can properly export from LR without the guessing game.

Regarding your statement that you want be a brilliant photographer rather than a brilliant PS Tech, I didn't realize they were mutually exclusive.

Actually, as Kerry explained, given today's equipment, you really can't do one 100% without the other.

I have for some time realized Kerry's and others explanations in that regard; that is why I pushed a bit (what, me push!) for the SOC. The whole purpose of SOC as described by Lance in the critique thread is to help US become better/brilliant photographers that WE want to be.

I have a lot of time on my hands - I call my lifestyle "luscious irresponsibility". I retired early; I live in a box on wheels (I am an Australian [well almost - my citizenship ceremony is 22 July] Grey Nomad, and I spend a lot of time reading photography books (including BAA I & II). I recently finished Shaw and Fitzharris on Landscape.

Amongst lots of things to learn from the readings, two of the most important things I have learned from all of the reading I have done is 1) that while the reading is necessary - especially to learn PP - all the reading in the World without lots of shooting will not make you a good photographer, and 2) even the Masters like Morris, Shaw, and Fitzharris - brilliant photographers - recognize the need for and use PS.

This may come as a surprise to many people, even some of the senior landscape photographers here on BPN. In an email exchange with John Shaw - I will write to anyone; won't I Artie - regarding landscape filters, John Shaw (one of the most recognized landscape photographers in the World) wrote:

It's difficult to answer your question re graduated filters as I no longer use them with digital. I find it much better to combine two frames, since the transition does not have to be linear (as in all grad filters).

Jenny, you may not want to be a brilliant PS Tech; however, if John Shaw and Artie Morris believe knowing how to use PS is necessary, I suggest you evaluate your PS/PP position - IMHO.

I realize that all the shooting in the World without the opportunity to have my original images critiqued will not make me a "brilliant photographer" because without the assistance of those better than me it is like the blind leading the blind: I am leading myself and that is only going to take me so far.

I note that yesterday you posted a lovely Masked Lapwing here in ETL - congratulations on your first excellent post. Did the image have any PP?

If it didn't you should be aware that the PP police (we have HA police, leveling police, levels/curves/and reverse S-curve police) assume that unless you tell them your image has not had some PP that in fact it has!

I would guess based upon your description of the image that it had a minimum if any PP. Frankly, it sounds like you, and me, and lots of others want to improve our basic photography. That is what posting and indicating the image is SOC is all about. How about sharing an identified SOC image and see what happens? It really doesn't hurt.

BTW, Lance posted his comments while I was typing this tome. Thanks Lance! In spite of John Shaw's position on GNDs, I do believe at this stage of my development that they still have their uses. After a little pushing John said "If you want to go the filter route, I would start with only one filter, a 2-stop soft-edged, and then determine if you need others. And only one filter holder is needed, the wide angle one." Thanks Lance. I will have lots more images for your SOC evaluation!:p>:p>

[Lance Peters]

Hi Jay - yes you can also do a HDR image - the combination of two or more frames to increase the dynamic range - exposing for highlights and shadows and then combining them in software later to give a similar result. Lots of options once you get it into the software - achieving a realistic feel takes some practice.

It really comes down to what works for you!

[Gus Cobos]

Hi Jay,
I like your repost 100% the colors are more dynamic and does the image justice...I like it...good show...:cool:

[Kerry Perkins]

Hi Jay. We are all learning from each other here and I appreciate your openness and willingness to share the things that you have learned along the way also. As for sizing and resolution for posting here, you might want to check out what I posted to the sticky about how to size for posting. It's at the end of the thread that is at the top of this forum thread page. The steps listed are for PS and if you have the program all you need to do is open the file and follow those steps - no further knowledge required. Do be sure you have the "convert to sRGB" box checked on the final "save" page.

I do like your repost and agree that taking some off the top would make this one shine. Thanks for sharing!

BTW, I suggested the "SOC" theme here back in April and we got some really nice images. One key component to these shots is consistent lighting and getting the exposure just right, which is always desirable. ;)

[Jay Gould]

I do like your repost and agree that taking some off the top would make this one shine. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks Mate, I followed your instructions regarding sizing for BPN - a lot easier than what I have been doing in LR ;) :D.

This has been at least for me a great opening SOC.

[Kerry Perkins]

That's it Jay! This is a much nicer composition IMHO. Can't wait to see what you come up with in your travels! Glad to be of assistance. :)

[Alfred Forns]

Interesting all three show a different scene and work on their own merit

Taking elements out of each also work and the last is my favorite !!! Would only sharpen the rocks a bit more !! Excellent !!

[Jay Gould]

Interesting all three show a different scene and work on their own merit

Taking elements out of each also work and the last is my favorite !!! Would only sharpen the rocks a bit more !! Excellent !!

Thanks Mate, now I have to learn how to selectively sharpen :D !

[Kerry Perkins]

Here ya go mate! http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...ead.php?t=6334