Camera advice: new 50D or old 1D MK II N?

[Massimo Grion]

Hello everybody,

as my main birding kit I currently use a 400mm f/5.6 lens, with a 1.4xTC "glued" to it. My budget doesn't allow me to upgrade my lenses for the near future and, since my old faithful 20D has started "playing tricks", I've been trying to figure out which "upgrade" would best fit my needs - and budget.

To make a long story short, two choices:
- 50D (new)
- 1D Mark II N (used)

Pros and cons on both sides, I know .. what would be the main elements to take into consideration if you were in my shoes?

Perhaps an old question, but please bear with me ;)

Thank you everybody in advance,

Max

[William Malacarne]

I have a 40D and a MK II N. I have used both and most of the time I end up using the MK II. The main reason in my thinking is because it focuses better. These are usually with a 300 f/4 or a 400 f/5.6 with a 1.4 or 2 X TC. I also have a 500 but have not used it at all on the 40D.

Bill

[Sebastian Erras]

I switched from the 40D to the Mark IIn and I don't regret it 1 second.

The main reason for me was the AF and I'm more than happy with it now.

[Roger Clark]

Hello everybody,

as my main birding kit I currently use a 400mm f/5.6 lens, with a 1.4xTC "glued" to it.

To make a long story short, two choices:
- 50D (new)
- 1D Mark II N (used)

Max

Max,
This is an interesting question. I have a 1D II and 30D. I am waiting for a 5D2 to replace the 30D, but may have to settle for a 50D, or wait (I have a Tanzania safari coming up). Check out the threads on the 50D. They show some very impressive results and also great autofocus capability. A used 1DII might be had for a similar price as a 1DII. Given your lenses, the advantage of the 1D series body is you'll have autofocus at f/8, where you would not with the 50D. I really really really love the 45 point AF system. It allows me more flexibility with composition on the fly. I also like the menu system of the 1D over the X0D series cameras: for me much faster to change and do things. Here are some things to consider (not that it will help make a decision):

50D with 400 f/5.6 resolves: 206265 arc-sec/radian * 0.0047 mm per pixel/400 mm = 2.4 arc-sec/pixel

1DII, 400mm +1.4x TC = 206265 * 0.0082 mm per pixel / (400 * 1.4) = 3 arc-sec/pixel.

The 50D resolves finer detail using the 400 mm lens without the 1.4x TC than the 1DII would with the 1.4x TC. This means you'll get more pixels on a bird with the 50D than the 1DII, by 3/2.4 = 1.25. For example, if a bird was 1000 pixels in size in a 1DII + 400mm +1.4x TC, it would be 1250 pixels in size with the 50D and 400 mm lens alone. You may also note that the f/ratio when using the 1.4x TC would be a stop lower, but while true, it is a false impression. The 1DII pixels are larger so collect more light: the area of a 1DII pixel is about 3 times more than a 50D pixel. In practice, the 1DII pixel collects about 2.5 times more light, so you could up the ISO by 2x to 2.5x and get a similar image noise as the 50D.

So it comes down is this or that feature is better (45 point AF, pro build ruggedness versus more pixels)? Only you can decide that. One deciding factor, can you find a quality 1DII with relatively low shutter activation count that is similarly priced to a 50D, and is that used price worth the risk of an out-of-warranty camera?

Roger

[Phil Colla]

I use both 50D and 1DIIN. The latter is a better camera all around, the only time I will use the 50D is to put more pixels on the subject. The 50D feels dinky compared to the 1-series bodies, and I hate the limited 9-AF points of the 50D. If I had to part with one of them, I'd sell the 50D.

[Sabyasachi Patra]

Massimo,
I have a 1DII and a 40D. The 40D is on the way out.

It is always tempting to have the 1.6 crop effect, big file size and the 50D being the latest. But the 45point AF of the Mark II is superb. Weather sealing is great. I have shot in rain and nothing has happened to the camera.

Either way, both are good cameras. It will boil down to our abilities to extract the maximum juice from the cameras.
Cheers,
Sabyasachi

[Massimo Grion]

Thank you all!
My doubts vanished in thin air when I first grabbed my just delivered 1DMkIIN yesterday ... I'm in heaven!

First impressions: great camera, solidly built and ... heavy!!!!! Yes, it is sooo heavy ... But it was great to be able to remove the tape from the converter pins and testing its AF capabilities without having to MF first, as I used to do with my 20D.

Now it's time to learn many new things (dials and buttons are quite different),but I'm glad about it, the only problem is that I have no user manual to bring when I'm out in the field - the one supplied was in Finnish :eek:

Yes, I miss the 1.6 crop effect: birds on my usual perch looked rather small in the viewfinder, but yesterday evening when I downloaded the raw files on my pc, I realized I could crop without losing much detail - not bad.

There's though one thing which surprised me a lot: more light available! :D Yesterday it was a sunny day, and I took a day off work especially to test my new toy

Same place, same time of the day, same perch, same ISO, same f/ratio, same lens+TC ... I was used to shooting with a speed in the region of 1/125s (or less) - 1/1000s (no more), now speed ranged consistently in the region of 1/1600s - 1/2500s ... wow! This was unexpected for me (I'm an absolute beginner with this camera)
And here's my question? Why?

Perhaps the answer is already in Roger's reply above (thank you :cool:) , but I'd be quite glad if someone could explain me in plain words why so ... and what else should I expect in my future shoots

Thank you all again in advance,

Max

[John Chardine]

Max- Here's a link to the manual in English. The Canon site probably has it as well.

http://www.nycv.com/manuals/Canon/EOS-1DMKIINIM-EN.pdf

[Massimo Grion]

Thank you John, much helpful ;)

[Roger Clark]

Massimo,
Exposure times with the same f/ratio and same subject should be the same with your 20D and 1DII. However, the 1DII will be gathering more light, and the pixels have a greater capacity, so the ISO definition is adjusted for each sensor. Why you are getting different exposures probably has more to do with the metering of the camera. I find the 1DII to give better exposures than my 30D, and the 1DII rarely blows the highlights in my experience.

One other thing, look up the custom function for AF speed/sensitivity and set it to the highest. (I don't have my camera or manual handy at the moment, or I would look it up.) It makes a big difference on fast action work.

Roger

[Paul Granone]

I used the 50D today at Bosque del Apache.
The focus was very quick and accurate, and the images sharp with good color and contrast. The 15 Mpixel image is great for cropping.

The pro body 1D Mark IIN may have faster focus. But the 50D was successful at keeping the birds in focus. So I would not rule out the 50D.