Phyroloxia

[Ryan Lepik]

Comments welcome. Photo taken with Canon XT & 70-300mm lens at 180mm, 1/160th sec, f7.1, ISO 400 & hand held at Cave Creek, AZ.

[Alfred Forns]

Hi Ryan !!!

Nice looking cardinal !! I like the pose and perch Would crop form the left and back down the USM Did real well handholding at the slow shutter speed!!!

[John Chardine]

Agree with Alfred, cardinal it is. Really like the detail in the feathers. Could use less room to the left and more to the right.

[Axel Hildebrandt]

I like the light and open beak. The angle is a bit steep and I would crop a bit off the left and sharpen less. Keep them coming!

[Ryan Lepik]

Hate to be contrary but it's a pyroloxia not a northern cardinal. They do look a little similar I will agree.

[John Chardine]

OK Ryan, it's always fun to debate species ID- we do it a lot over in the Avian Identification, Behaviour and Nomenclature forum! Best thing is to have a look at Freddy Franzella's Pyrrhuloxia here:

http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...ad.php?t=10881

and see what you think (note the bill and then take a look at Sibley p. 464)

[Ryan Lepik]

John, you have almost convinced me. Reason for my call is that both birds male & female were perched about 3' apart & the female is 100% pyrroloxia as I have shots of both. Let me take a look at your references.

[John Chardine]

Neat observation. I wonder if they hybridize??

When was your image made? Reason is that the bird could be a young cardinal going into breeding plumage but it doesn't look like a fledgling from the hatching year. Your bird fits most closely with the marks of a female cardinal. Note the reddish (not grey-yellow), more pointy bill than the Pyrrhuloxia. It may be a younger bird because the black in the face and in front of eye does not appear to be well developed- but it is there. Your bird also shows reddish on the wing coverts and more red on the tail than the other species. All these marks "say" cardinal.

Sounds like you saw females of both species side-by-side. Would be great to see the other bird. and have a look at them together.

[Ryan Lepik]

John,
Pictures were taken last February at Cave Creek, AZ. Cave Creek at the very SE corner of the state. I have to post the other bird on the other forum because she's sitting on a piece of rebar. Have a look there.

[John Chardine]

I've had a look Ryan over at Hand of Man and commented that you have a male Pyrrhuloxia, which makes sense as you mentioned it was associating with your female cardinal. The species are in the same genus and closely related but I don't know if hybrids have ever been observed.

As for the date, your cardinal could be a young bird from the previous year (chick in 2007) as the dark in the face seems to be moulting-in.

[Ryan Lepik]

John, if you ever get a chance to go to AZ by all means visit Cave Creek, I think they have a web site. The place is in a canyon with a river running through it. Accomodatiuns are 5-7 stone cabins with all the amendities. It's run for the owner by a couple who are true bird lovers. They have probably 30 feeders of all types out around the grounds & I watched him smear peanut butter on a tree trunk & it attracted several woodpecker species. Ability to photograph birds is just great.

[John Chardine]

Thanks for the tip Ryan. Utah, Arizona and New Mexico are three places I most want to go for bird photography in the US.